TRANSCRIPT
Access without Barriers - Integrating Assistive Technology into District IT Practices
11/17/25

>>Donna: Daniel? 

>>Daniel: Hey, everyone. Nice to meet you. My name is Daniel Wheeler. I am an instructional technology and staff learning coordinator here at TSBVI. And just a little bit of background information about myself. I've been in education for 14 years. Before coming to TSBVI, I worked at a local high school, Del Valle High School outside of Austin. I was there for seven years. Started off as a special ed English teacher and worked my way into instructional technology and then came over to TSBVI in 2018. Have my certification and currently supervise our assistive technology teachers. I like to think of myself as a bit of a bridge between our classroom teachers and our I.T. department. Translator advocating for the needs of our teachers and students. And then trying to distill some of that techie language and technical concepts into more easy to understand language for our teachers and students. And, yeah. Thanks for the invite, Donna. Happy to chat about this topic with you all today. 

>>Donna: And hi, everyone. I'm Donna Clemens. I'm the assistive technology consultant here with Outreach at TSBVI. I have over 25 years of experience between being a TSVI right out of university, undergraduate program, and working in districts, rural and urban. And then working at our ESC before coming here to TSBVI. Yeah. That's a mouthful. 

>>Daniel: Tricky. Very similar. 

>>Donna: When Daniel and I -- I pitched this idea to Daniel at the beginning of the year. I get a lot of calls on how do I work with the I.T. department. I don't know what verbiage to use. I don't know the vocabulary. And so we kind of got to talking about, you know, he works as a bridge for our folks. But most of our districts don't have that bridge between us as the TSVI and the I.T. department themselves. So how can we help in bridging that gap for other folks? So the first thing we thought about was that collaboration is the key. I.T. and AT is a huge part of our student's lives. As with any other components in their day, collaboration is going to be the key to their success and our success and lowering our stress when we're dealing with our AT and with our devices. Sorry. I jumped there. But as we go along, we would like for you to drop in the chat any examples, questions, complications that you have with IT or AT. And we're just very curious about your unique needs that come with technology and technology collaboration. So when we were talking about collaboration, we were talking about when should we collaborate. Well, we kind of came up with a couple of different ways. And a lot of times we miss -- I know I have missed, as a TVI, the before you buy edition, as we've called this. We've gone ahead and brought a computer or bought a Braille display or a note taker. And we haven't had our conversation with our IT department. And them being a part of that early conversation is really important because we don't know, as TSVIs, what the IT department really does. I know I don't know everything that the IT department does. And what barriers they may have to adding this new device. So what we can do to help that collaboration is to take our specification sheets to our IT department, making sure that our hardware and software are compatible with their infrastructure. If we don't know where to find those spec sheets, take the information to our IT people and ask them where do we get it? Where would we look for it? If we're setting up JAWS or Braille production or even a student personal device, take all of those spec sheets. Because it may be that the device you're planning on getting isn't strong enough to run all the things that our students need. And if you already have your devices, take everything. Take all of your different parts. Which leads us to the after you buy edition. You've already bought all your stuff. So you take all of that with you to the IT department. Because the worst thing to happen is you get there and you're missing information or you don't have a cable to connect. Or you've run out of power and you need a block to power it up. So taking all of that stuff. If you're using a Braille device and it has the capability of a visual display, you want to take that with you. You'll want to take an external keyboard as well that's already connected to that device, if possible. Because we don't expect our IT folks to know Braille. That's where we come in. So any way we can ease that visual component would be absolutely imperative. I'm sorry, Daniel. I kind of took over there. 

>>Daniel: This is great. I think almost taking a step back here, just the idea of collaboration and what does it take to successfully collaborate, you know, with an IT department. I think -- I'm assuming most districts have some sort of ticketing system or some way to put in requests and help. From their standpoint, that's so that they can make sense of the requests that come in across the board. So they're getting password reset requests, broken monitors, broken access points. It helps them categorize and prioritize those requests on the back end. From your perspective, it probably creates a barrier where it feels impersonal or you don't -- you wish you had a point of contact, like a personal point of contact when you need help or need assistance quickly. And so, not to jump too far ahead, but I think it's really helpful if you can make a personal connection with someone in the IT department. Like find your go-to person that you can get to know. You can have that relationship with. And so it's more than just a help desk system. There's people behind that help desk system that are doing all kinds of jobs. And they have their stress points too and they, you know, when we introduce some sort of a specialized assistive technology device, it can increase their stress level as well because they may have no experience with it. They have no idea how to integrate this unique device into their network and their systems. And they like standardization. They like less variety. They want just a couple of models. They want to be able to -- apologies for the bell going on. They want predictability. And so whether it's a Braille display or a Braille note or some sort of specialized software. Even like JAWS, for example, that may be new to them. And new things, things that are outside the scope of maybe what they're used to dealing with can be challenging. So I think you kind of have to view yourself as a translator. As an educator when it comes to the assistive tech that you need for your students and advocating for that. Yeah, sometimes it takes finding that point person to break in and do a little show and tell. Have that spec sheet with you so you can explain what the device is, what are the requirements. And I'm thinking too a lot about JAWS, Donna. JAWS is such a critical screen reader software for our students that are using that. But it can be a demanding software, from a performance standpoint. So if you don't have enough RAM in your laptop, it will struggle to run JAWS. If your processor isn't fast enough. And so it can actually be frustrating and lead to more problems if you don't have a computer that has the right specs in place. I'm imagining there's a number of conversations that people have to have with the IT department about, hey, does this device meet the minimum standards to run the software in a way that's useful and not hurtful for the student. 

>>Donna: Absolutely. And a lot of our devices that we get in bulk with those big orders, when we're talking about one-to-one devices for general population, may not have the size or capacity that we need to run JAWS or to run zoom text. If you're using a very small -- or as we now have Fusion, which has elements of both, it is a big power hog. And if we're using very small computers with very small screens, our students with low vision may not be able to zoom in large enough. They get one to two letters on the screen versus, you know, a whole word, if they had a bit larger screen. So having those conversations as to why. When we were first talking about this, we talked about how a lot of times when we order in districts, or in my experience, when we ordered in districts, we ordered through a special revenue. We ordered through the special ed department instead of IT and there are times we have missed great deals where we could have gotten a bigger monitor or a bigger-powered computer going through our IT department where they have those connections and those bulk orders. Instead of paying these larger sums of money for one computer ordered one time. So that pre, before you buy edition of the collaboration, would be important for that as well. It can be intimidating. We had a chat come in that said the same thing. Waiting on IT can be a problem or feel like a problem, especially for passwords and permissions to add. Everything has to have a ticketing. Like Daniel said, the ticketing is to keep order to chaos. We have our one or two students with technology or a handful of students with technology. But the IT department has the whole campus or the whole district. So they have to keep order to chaos in some way. So let's give them some grace and find out their fun stuff, what they like and make those personal connections. And really get to the training and resource part. Because not only are we training our teachers and our students, really training and exchanging the resources with our IT department to let them know what our devices do and how our devices are different. Because -- and I love this saying and this picture that we found. We don't know what we don't know. And there are things that our IT department knows that we wouldn't see coming. So we wouldn't see that bottom of the iceberg that a command that we use regularly may cause problems in the IT infrastructure. We want to make sure we're having those conversations. That they don't know what we know about our Braille devices but we don't know what they know, necessarily, about their IT infrastructure that may cause adding a Braille individual device may cause an issue. Which leads us to our next great picture. Those things behind the curtain. 

>>Daniel: Oh, man. I love that reference. When I think about what goes on in an IT department, there is this idea of a veil of mystery. If you're not familiar with what it takes to keep the internet functioning across multiple physical campuses, how does that even work? How does it work to manage settings on hundreds and hundreds of devices in a school so that they're safe. That they're filtered. That they're safe from outside bad actors who may be trying to get into the network. And those tasks are quite massive a lot of times. Some districts that are well resourced probably have a wonderful team of people and they're all, you know, they're not overworked and they're not working multiple roles at the same time. But I think probably the reality for a lot of districts is, you know, the IT department is overworked and they're serving multiple roles. I'm thinking about my previous district. I had -- the more I got to know the tech department on a personal level, I started to realize, oh, my gosh. They're working two, three, four jobs all in one. And it was really miraculous to me that they kept things functioning. And so I think in the spirit of collaboration, true collaboration takes a sense of empathy and understanding. We need to be empathetic to what's going on behind the scenes. And assuming good intent and positive intent with, you know, what these folks are doing. I think they're under pressure to provide a safe and secure environment for learning. There's a lot of legal requirements that are placed upon them. You know, they have to run reports and to prove that they're not distributing devices. They're not opening up things that would present a risk to students and to staff. And so, again, I think there's this push and pull between what we want in the short term and immediately. I need my student to have access to this, this, and this so that they can, you know, have access to the curriculum and do their work. But sometimes it's more complicated than that. And I deal with that even here at TSBVI. We're a specialized school. We have really close-working relationships with our IT department. But there's also a push and pull here too. My tech teachers all the time say we need this app or I need this extension in a browser or I need this for my student. And we don't just have it wide open. That's on purpose. If everything was wide open and anything could download and install whatever they want on their laptops, that's not a very secure situation. And Donna and I were consulting with one of our systems administrators and he said his number one priority almost every day of his work life is security and safety. Making sure that when our staff open up their laptops or students open up their laptop that they have a safe and secure environment. And that often means restricting things. So you make a request to install something. They have to review it. They have to make sure it meets certain security standards. They have to think about the implications. Am I doing a single install here or am I opening this up more broadly to a larger audience so that more staff can install it? And that review takes time. Some schools probably require documentation around it. What's happening with your data. You know, some apps require connecting your Google account, for example. If you give that access, I've heard it being described as little pinpricks in the fabric of security. So the more little pinpricks you have, the more holes you've created where there can be, you know, data leaks and bad actors can get involved. IT is often thinking about security and safety. That's their top priority. And also funding. Do we have money for this. And on our end, we're thinking about student needs. Like, that's first and foremost our priority. And how do we meet in the middle and how do we -- I think from their perspective, what we do is often a bit of a mystery to them too. You know, so we're behind the curtain, from their perspective. And we're behind the curtain from our perspective. What does it take to break down those barriers, to pull the curtain back, to give both sides insight into what the needs are and what's going on and being flexible and willing to meet in the middle. I told Donna too earlier. And stop me, Donna, if I'm going on too much of a tangent here. But I'm thinking about with IT departments, we sometimes think of them in our brains as like these really, you know, difficult to work with, negative personality people. They don't want to be helpful. But a lot of times it's because they're constantly dealing with people in crisis. They're constantly trying to put out fires, fix things that are broken. Dealing with people that are in a -- oh, yeah. There's a slide. Dealing with people that are -- that things aren't working. And so it's a customer service role. And when you're constantly dealing with customers who are not happy, yeah, over time it can wear on you. And that's tough to have a real positive relationship when the only time you go to them is when you need something from them. And it's a demand. It's a request. So I was talking with the director of technology at our school and how we could improve the working relationship between his staff that are kind of behind the scenes. They're desktop support folks, systems administrators. And our assistive technology teachers who are on the front lines. They're working with students. And I was like, my tech teachers are always going to you when they need something. It's a request. It's an app to install. It's something that's broken. Hey, I requested this laptop two weeks ago. Where is it? And he had a really great idea. It's a revolutionary idea. He said, do you know what? We need a pizza party. We need a pizza party and the one rule is no one can make a request of each other. It's just a let's meet on a human level and let's remember that we're all people here. We're all trying to have the same goal, supporting students. And I think a pizza party would go a long way. You may not have a pizza party at your district but maybe you could bring some cookies, a snack. At a moment you don't need something. A random Tuesday. Hey, guys, just want to thank you for what you're doing, keeping the school afloat from a technology standpoint. I know I'm often coming to you when I need things but I just want do say thank you. That will go a long way and you might get a quicker reply next time you make a request or need something. 

>>Donna: It absolutely could. I remember at my last district, occasionally the administration would stop in, whether you were there or not, and leave a little post-it with "you're doing a great job" or we noticed this. And stick it on your desk. It was just a, wow. Somebody saw. You know, so I loved getting those and I am sure our IT folks, who tend to be in their little isolation sometimes. And, like you said, we go to them when we need something. We like to be acknowledged. So think of your IT folks and stop by. 

>>Daniel: The internet worked great today! 

>>Donna: Yay! We had a stable connection all day. It was great! Thanks! It may make a better time for the next, when something is going wrong. And, you know, they're not out to make things harder for us. They have their rules to follow as we have our rules to follow. So we need to give each other grace and assume that positive intent. And we need to beat the "don't know." We don't know they don't know about our stuff so let's have some training and some transfer of knowledge. When we're working together with our IT departments, we work together as a team and collaborate. So what does cross-training mean for that purpose? As an AT person or TSVI, we want to train our IT staff on the basic functionality and trouble shooting on our common devices. They've probably never seen a Braille display or a Braille note taker or JAWS or zoom text or fusion, any of those specialized items that we use. And that's just to name some of them. We have a ton more. When we bring in our smart CCTVs that still have to be hooked up to the internet, they may never have seen those in their careers. So we can teach them about, look at this cool thing. It does really awesome stuff. And so training them and let them know. And having them train us on how to safely connect our devices to the school network and why they do what they do and how to set things up properly. There is an order, with most of our equipment, there is an order of how things need to be connected or things go a little bit crazy. So if we can make that personal connection with them and train each other, we can definitely support and make the process smoother. And see behind that curtain. So in that vein we created some useful resources to help you ease that collaboration and make sure you're on the same wavelength and that you're talking the same language. Because I don't know how many calls I've gotten that says I don't know what to tell the IT department. I have no clue what I'm telling them. So we wanted to see if we could get on the same page. The first being -- and I know some of our attendees are not in Texas. But we created a document and it just seems like I've had a snafu here and have closed my document link. I'll get to it in just a second. That has to do with our Texas House Bill 1481. And that is the personal device use in schools. That has been banned, basically, for lack of a better word. That they're not supposed to use their personal devices while in school. So, we created, and just had it approved, a guidance for teachers of personal device for special education and 504. And this is included in your handout. The first part of the handout is going through the state law. And I won't dive on this too much because we have some folks that are not in Texas. But a lot of different states have done different rules on this lately. What the exception for students with disabilities is and how it works. Examples of approved usage. Teacher responsibilities, documentation, and key takeaways. Now, that's a little bit more of a deep dive but we've also included a one-pager of a teacher quick guide for what does this mean. The use of a personal device. For Texas, specifically, we have a new access grant that is specifically attached to our Monarch devices. And those are personal devices. So, this is a big issue for us in Texas when we're talking about personal use devices. So we did want to include this in your handouts so that we're all on the same page with the law. 

>>Daniel: Donna, just to clarify, so this document's intended to serve a couple of purposes, right? To educate the teacher, the TSVI, on, you know, exceptions or, you know, if they have a student with a personal device, if it's used for these purposes, they, by law, are legally allowed to use it in school settings? 

>>Donna: Correct. 

>>Daniel: And they can also pass this along to IT departments in case IT departments are trying to say, no, no, no, we can't let this student use this device on our network. We can say yes, yes, yes. 

>>Donna: And here's why. Yeah. We wanted to have that documentation in hand and have all the right language. And so we did get this through general counsel and all the lovely things that it has to be sent through. All right. So we're going to pause for a second to see if anybody has any questions. I do not see any in the chat. So make sure that you're getting those questions into the chat so that we can talk about them. So the next thing we created was a information sheet for collaboration and explanation. And this sheet is really to make sure we are using some of the same language when we get to the next information sheet. So it talks about connectivity and configuration. What does that mean? How does it plug in? How does it connect to the Wi-Fi? Does it use Bluetooth? All of that different information. What operating system does your computer use? Now, we've had a lot of questions -- I know I have -- about Chromebooks. The whole school is using Chromebooks but I have a student who needs a screen reader. Will JAWS work on Chromebooks? No, it will not. So that is one of the issues that we collaborate with our IT department and say we're a Chrome district and that does not work for my student. And this is why it doesn't work for my student. So that is an operation system and platform question. Then we have configuration requirements. How does the device set up? What are the guidelines that we need to follow. Does it have menus that need to be used or a GUI, as our IT people call it. How does it connect wirelessly? This caused big trouble when we were installing the first generation and second generation of the Braille Note Touch. It used to be that Braille Note was on both types of networks and now they're not. And some of our districts didn't have the 5 gigahertz network. They only had the 2.4 or had just upgraded to 5 and had scrapped the 2.4. So we were having a hard time connecting our devices. That could be an issue, if you're not getting connected. Do you use Google or Microsoft? We had some issues with our Monarchs connecting at our school because we had a splash screen, for lack of a better word, to call it, a login screen. When you sign into our Wi-Fi, that took you out to Google. Well, our Monarchs couldn't do that and so we had to solve how to get our Monarchs on the internet on our school safely and securely so that our students could use them throughout the school. So there are firewall issues that may need to be addressed with your IT departments. And then those ports, like Daniel said, getting those pinholes of security secured up so we're not allowing bad actors in by accident through our devices. And then some -- describing how the student uses this device. You know, why do they need this special computer with this Braille display? And what does it provide to them? And how are they using it? That helps them understand why it matters. For example, I had a school that, for security reasons, they blocked the use of a certain key stroke. Well, that keystroke was important for a student using JAWS. And having it blocked meant that my student couldn't use JAWS effectively. And we had to talk through why it for this student was not a security issue. It was a usability issue. And then who's responsible for updating and upkeep of your device? Some of our devices are very, very expensive. And who's responsible for keeping that updated and keeping the device connected to the right apps? Is it going to be on the network and left at the district so that when over the holidays, the computers are all reimaged and, oh, no. My student's computer has been reimaged over the holiday and JAWS is missing. Or their translation software is missing when they get back. Because all the computers were reset to the same thing and your student's computer is now missing the specialized things that happen. So this is just an explanation document of what each of those categories are. And thank you, Kaycee, for sending that stuff to Kimberly. So do we have any questions about explanations of categories? Sorry, Daniel. I kind of took off there. 

>>Daniel: Yeah. I mean, I think -- I can think of a few times in my past where this would have been helpful if I had known. I'm also thinking, too, about when I was working at my previous job and I had no idea about the world of VI education, assistive technology related to VI education. And I was working -- we had kind of a tech help desk in this central learning commons area, learning resource center. We would get a lot of walkup traffic. I do remember we had a TSVI come up -- I didn't know what she was at the time, but she had a request for an extra large monitor for a student she was working with. And she brought the student with her. Something about having -- it was like, oh, okay. This need was very clear to me. Like, this student is a low vision student and needed an extra monitor. Unfortunately, we didn't have any in stock and I remember feeling bad at the time. Like, oh, man, I wish we had a supply of these larger external monitors for this particular student. But that really resonated with me. I don't know, it may not always be appropriate to have a student with you sometimes when you come. But, I'm also thinking about how it would be cool to set up a demo where you could have the student demo the technology for some people in the IT department. Almost like a show and tell kind of thing. Now, they have a much clearer understanding of the need. But if that can't be the case, like a device information sheet. You've answered the questions for them so when you show up, you're like here are all the things I know you're probably wondering about and thinking about. And we've done the work for you. So, here. Here's answers to a lot of your questions. And I would imagine they would appreciate that, for sure. 

>>Donna: Absolutely. And if we can't find the information on the spec sheets, if we take those, then we can get help filling out here is the example of what we've made for your device information sheet. Now, this first version, it says "original version 1", includes the explanations. All of those things we just discussed on the explanation sheet are included in this form. It's a little bit longer but allows you to remind yourself of what the vocabulary is. And so it gives a little device overview. You know, what's the device name? What is its purpose? What is its function? And then we talked about connectivity. How does it connect? That operations systems section we talked about. What operation system does it run on? And we did keep Linux in there because there are still a few that are still Linux users. Gives me the shivers. Then there's configuration requirements. Do they need access to a console or command line and is it web based? Those things. 

>>Daniel: And I will jump in here, Donna. Just in case they haven't thought about this. One reason the Chromebook, in particular, really took off in its popularity is because from a systems administration standpoint, one, it's super cheap. Number two, it's incredibly easy to deploy. So you don't need a command line. You don't need some sort of specialized knowledge to set up the Chromebook, enroll it in a managed environment, and then get it out into the wild, you know, into production. It's like one key combination and you sign in with any school e-mail address and all of a sudden it's connected and it's ready to go. The ease of onboarding with that device was just -- they found a sweet spot. Windows devices are much more technical and complicated and require special knowledge and training to deploy those and to manage those. But, as you were saying, I would imagine there's a lot of tension, specifically with that device in schools that are a Chromebook school or Chromebook district and we need a student to have a Windows laptop with JAWS and having to make that argument and make that pitch. And then also, like tech departments may not even know exactly what to do. You know, they're like how do I make an exception here and allow this one-off device. Yeah. Also, if you scroll up on that document, Donna, I think what I was thinking about is Android as an operating system. 

>>Donna: Oh, yeah. We didn't put Android on there. That's a little bit more rare but it does happen. Especially when we have our -- more of our Braille devices are now Android based instead of Windows based. Like our Braille Notes are Android based. I guess I should have had that one on there. Good catch there. Yeah. So we get into our server and cloud access. Don't forget printers. That was a big one. If you've got a note taker and you're expecting to get hard copies maybe to a teacher to turn things in or for a student to share, if they're not cloud sharing. A lot of our students are cloud sharing with Google Classroom and Canvas and all of those. But if they do need to turn a hard copy in, make sure they have a network printer that they're able to get to. Example, I had a student that the solution was they would only be on the guest network with their one-off device. Well, that caused a problem when we needed to print or we needed to connect to the student folders that were on the student's side of the network. They couldn't because they were on the guest network. So those are kinds of things that need to be talked through. And then primary access and then device management. Excuse me. So that is our version one, because it keeps all of our vocabulary and our explanations in one document. If you had one student or it was your first time collaborating and you didn't want to take the explanation sheet and your sheet, you have it all in one document there. Our second version is pared down. It takes out all those explanations. You have a new student coming in, you don't need the explanations anymore. You can just go in and fill out all the notes for your item and take this shorter page to your IT department. So we thought those handouts would help. Thank you much, Sandra. Liked the handouts. Appreciate it. And do we have any other questions that have popped up or comments? Because we are coming around to the very end. And we thought we were going to come in way too short, Daniel. We're still a little short but we're clicking it in there. 

>>Daniel: Yeah. 

>>Donna: So, if you have any questions, drop them in the chat. 

>>Daniel: Yeah, I would be curious -- yeah, just to learn about folks' experience in attempting to collaborate. Have they tried different ways and what are some of the pain points or maybe what worked for them that could be a lesson to others. I'm sure it greatly depends on the district and those IT departments. 

>>Donna: Absolutely. Oh. That was our last slide. So, yeah. We have some up. I'm going to stop my share so we can kind of see the chat here. And Jim says: As IT folks, do you have a preferred typing program that works with JAWS? He's from Colorado with a very supportive and amazing IT department -- yay! But each district is different and this question comes up a lot. 

>>Daniel: Do you want me to -- I'll take a first stab at this. Here at TSBVI, there's a web-based program that we use a lot called Typing Ed Club. And I could probably grab the URL and drop it in the chat. And we like that one because it gives a lot of, yeah, a lot of good analytics on the back end. So a lot of good teacher reports and teacher dashboard kind of data on the student's progress. But then I was also going to say Typability. If you don't need that data and reporting, Typability teaches you JAWS key strokes as well and it plays so nice. I would suggest those two as a starting point. 

>>Donna: You nailed both of the ones that I use as well. Great question. And it sounds like you had your answer already. Those are both great programs. 

>>Daniel: And I don't think Typing Club is super expensive. It's pretty affordable. 

>>Donna: Jennifer asked about screen sharing options. What specifically are you looking to share, Jennifer? Are you looking at, like the smartboard share or are we looking at... 

>>Daniel: iPad to iPad? 

>>Donna: iPad to iPad? 

>>Daniel: You can do that with Apple Classroom. That's something we use in some of our classes that are more iPad -- we have more iPads in deployment. That's one of those where a teacher can push out content to a student's screen and then you can also lock screens. It's sort of a device management for a teacher in a classroom full of students, if they're all on iPads. That would be -- oh, smart board. 

>>Donna: We've had some workarounds. There are some apps that allow that. I don't know about you, Daniel, but we had some workarounds where the student couldn't necessarily interact with the smart board but was able to have it on their iPad. And we actually used Zoom and the share feature to allow the student to see the smart board on their device. Now, they couldn't manipulate or pick choices or anything like that from their device. But it did allow them to see their content up close. I don't know if you have any other... 

>>Daniel: I don't. We actually don't have any smart boards here at TSBVI. But I was going to suggest the same thing. Some sort of Zoom would be good. I'm assuming some of the smart boards have proprietary screen casting or screen sharing. But also Google Meet. Any of the videoconferencing tools that have screen sharing built in should work on the iPads. 

>>Donna: There are apps I worry about the security when it comes to a third-party app and sharing information back and forth. Smart board to Chromebook. I haven't done that one at all. 

>>Daniel: Yeah, me either. 

>>Donna: Other than using a, again, a screen sharing meeting app to do the same way. Great questions. Sorry we don't have a more definitive answer for those. Do we have any other questions out there? Kaycee, you want to come back in with us? 

>>Kaycee: Sure thing. I was frantically trying to find the smart board to iPad app that I used to use. I'm digging through all the reports real quick trying to find it. 

>>Donna: That was the drawback when I was using the apps, the third-party apps is they would disappear. You would get one that would work and it would be stable and then it would no longer be supported. Or the iOS update would happen and it would break. Third-party apps were a hit and miss, at least on my end. In my narrow experience with smart boards. Team Viewer and Join Me. I use both of those as well. 

>>Kaycee: This was many, many years ago, but those were the ones I had in my report that I found. 

>>Donna: Those were the two I used as well. Whether or not they worked or could get through security. 

>>Daniel: And I feel like Team Viewer was a little pricey, in my limited experience with it. I remember our IT department wanted to allocate the least amount of Team Viewer licenses as possible because they were pretty expensive. 

>>Donna: It was much cheaper and easier to use Zoom or Google Meet or Teams, whatever we had in the bundle to be able to project and connect. 

>>Kaycee: Yeah, that makes sense, using Zoom. Just like we do when we present in big spaces and things. Instead of connecting HDMI, we'll just do Zoom and project it. It makes total sense that a student could do it the same way. It would be a great way to record too. If you have absent students, you could record. That would be handy. 

>>Donna: And you could snap screenshots of notes. It's a simple click. Adding screenshots is very simple to them zoom into and look at later. 

>>Kaycee: Lots of benefits to that. Perfect.