TRANSCRIPT
Learning Media Decisions for Students with Low Vision
12/8/25
 
>>Emily: Today we'll be talking about Learning Media Decisions for Students with Low Vision. And this session is primarily focused on students with low vision who are in a Gen Ed setting. Who may be working at or near grade level. We know that learning media decisions can be challenging. They can be nuanced and sometimes it's maybe not quite as readily observable as it is for some students who are blind. So we're going to be talking about the Learning Media Assessment and not about how to perform the assessment pieces or how to write it, but really looking at what key factors or key pieces of data from the Learning Media Assessment can be used for making that decision about dual media. And so we will be talking really more on dual media, rather than just one form of media. So that Learning Media Assessment purpose is to determine whether or not the student will be primarily a Braille reader. Because in IDEA, the default media is Braille. And to determine whether that student will be primarily a visual or print reader would require a thorough and rigorous Learning Media Assessment in order to be able to present accurate data that justifies whether or not that student is primarily a print user. And just to remember that students should not be considered primarily auditory. Now, the students do need some form of media, print or Braille, in order to be truly literate. There are a lot of pieces of information that can be missing for our students. Academic program, if they are primarily auditory. So we'll also be talking about using those key components from the Learning Media Assessment to help make that dual media decision and what the process looks like. We'll be talking about what are some of the findings from some example students, what recommendations can come from that data. We're talking also about possible instructional needs that are informed by the Learning Media Assessment data. And then also about making an implementation plan for dual media. So that's something that may take some real thoughtful consideration, some collaboration between the student and the student's educational team to determine how and when those media, especially dual media, will be incorporated into the school day. So, we're going to start with LMA consideration, and this is an image of a student, a young student using both vision and Braille. And learning to read during this particular lesson. So some key components of the LMA to think about including are the implications of the eye condition. And so things like environmental factors. Glare and lighting. Too much lighting, dim lighting that would impact visual functioning and may cause visual functioning to vary or to change, depending on those factors. And also to consider whether or not it is a progressive condition. As an ophthalmologist indicated that it's stable or unstable? Those are all factors in determining current and future needs based on those implications of the eye condition. And then another part of it would be the print or image size. So one thing to consider is is the student able to use regular print or something that's close to regular print. What's their working distance? How big is too big? That's another key thing to think about. Because the student is accessing material based on a 36-point font or a 48-point font on a very big magnified image on a CCTV, that student may be only able to see a few letters at a time as they're reading. And if the student is using a close working distance, then that further increases that or decreases that ability for the student to see a whole word. So they might be able to see the word "the" but then when you move into the word "theory," that ORY might be able to take more to scan or put those pieces together. Which, of course, our next point is impact fluency and reading speed. When you're getting bigger like that, especially on a CCTV, it's going to take a lot of time for the student to get all of the information that they need. All the letters that they need. All the information they need from an image in a timely way. And then another piece that I think is really important is the visual fatigue and stamina. So if a student is fatiguing and not able to maintain vision for academic tasks for a very long period, that's a thing to really consider. How to reduce visual fatigue and what the impact of that visual fatigue or that level of stamina is for the student in that educational setting. If it's pretty significant, it will be more challenging for the student to maintain near work, to stay caught up with peers. That can cause a lot of other impacts to the student in those situations. And then thinking about tactile and auditory skills, it's not necessarily just an evaluation of tactile and auditory, but it's also thinking about, especially with tactile, how does the student approach objects or things that they are looking at that are touchable. Are they grabbing on to or touching, exploring tactually that object before they look at it? Which is coming first? What is their primary or go-to as far as how they get information. And then considering assistive technology, which is, again, current needs and future needs for that student. Not just the use of assistive technology, but what kind. And that also includes optical devices. So this is dual media decisions. We're using two examples of students, two different types of students. This is an image of a student looking and touching tactile graphics. So, approaching this task as a dual media learner. So our first example -- and this is a conglomeration of a few students that I have had in the past. This student is 16 and in tenth grade. Has albinism. And acuity of 20/140. And so we know, because of the eye condition, and we know because the student is in high school, is 16, that their environmental factors, like too much lights, like the glare, can really impact the student's visual functioning in various settings. So that's another factor to consider when you're looking at the LMA data. So here are some findings from that student's LMA. And this isn't all of the findings, these are just some of the points that reflect those key considerations. So this student is able to read 12 point print at a 6-inch working distance with good speed, meaning commensurate with peers and good fluency. When large print was tried with the student, reading speed was actually reduced. Again, that goes back to how much of the word can that student see at one time. So enlarged print can be too big. And because the student is reading regular print, a close working distance or closer working distance, that's something to really keep in mind that that large print has not improved. Actually, it's reduced that speed and fluency. But also, another piece of the LMA data, is that student has difficulty with fine details and math. And that might also apply to science and social studies. Looking at images and graphics and being able to distinguish some of that real fine detail. So, her -- I said her because it is some previous students, but primarily visual access issues are lighting and glare. And the student has difficulty reading glossy or laminated materials. So that becomes an access issue in a class where a lot of that is provided. And this student report visual fatigue and headaches after one hour of reading and other academic work. So it is significant that the student experiences visual fatigue, but that amount of time at an hour would be pretty much enough time to get through a class period, given a vision break at that point. The student may be comfortable and ready to continue working on near tasks. After a brief vision break. So if you're thinking of high school, that passing period gives a little bit of a break in between classes. So based on that LMA data, recommendations can look like primary, sensory channel is visual. That information is coming from the fact that that student is reading regular print, even though at a closer working distance, it's very effective. The student is able to read at a similar rate as peers, has good fluency. We could also add in good comprehension. Maybe that wasn't addressed in the previous slide, but that's another thing to think about. Another recommendation is the use of the handheld magnifier for seeing details and charts and graphs. And then exploring options for reducing glare and lighting level. And the final recommendation is the use of auditory formats to reduce visual fatigue. And that would be in some situations. And some additional findings and recommendations are the use of a slant board, when during the testing process and for information from the student. Having that reading material at more of an upright angle was beneficial, along with the use of overlays and tinted paper to help reduce and control glare. However, the student was able to communicate that those were things that she would not be comfortable using in class. The use of the handheld magnifier maybe less noticeable. Maybe the student feels like that would not draw as much attention. And that was something that the student felt comfortable in doing. And when thinking about exploring options for reducing glare and lighting level, that is, again, in collaboration with the teacher and maybe with other members of that student's educational team. So thinking about those recommendations, what are some possible instructional needs for that student? And one would be finding focal distance using the handheld magnifiers. Now, in thinking about using magnifiers or telescopes, it's really important that that student does get to a low vision clinic to have that full evaluation done. With that information, of course, being shared with the school, with the TVI, to help get the right types of magnification to the student. But being able to use those handheld magnifiers and finding the magnification or the right focal distance is something that will help improve that student's comfort level with using the magnifier and making it an automatic process about the distance the magnifier is held away from the print. And then the instructional need could also include self-advocacy skills for using those strategies to reduce glare and control lighting. So students may have an accommodation of preferential seating. How does that student approach communicating with the teacher what is the preferred seating spot in that classroom? You know, not facing windows would be very important. But there could be other factors as well within that particular classroom that changes where that preferred seating is. And then, instruction on use of available options for auditory materials, such as an immersive reader, which is print paired with audio. Audio only, which is sometimes preferred for when listening to a book or reading for pleasure is just the audio only. But it may be a little more challenging to just use listening skills when reading something that's more technical. You know, science textbook or that type of material. And that may need more practice for the student. And then listening to recordings of lectures. So as the student moves through school, especially going into college, it might become more challenging for the student to take notes effectively, being able to record the lecture and then go back and listen to it again to pick out that key information can be very helpful. But that also can take practice in order to be able to get used to listening or finding what is the key points from that lecture. And be able to take notes and study from that. So that was our student number one. Oh, this is an image of some handheld magnifiers. Includes reading glasses, but we're really thinking about the magnifiers. So that rectangular lens does allow -- can allow more text to be viewed at one time. It can be pocket-sized. One of the magnifiers is a handheld round lens that can be easily stored in the attached storage thing. I think it probably has an official word. And so all of these can fit in a pocket or a purse or whatever is useful, so that student can have it whenever they want. Both at the classroom and in the community. And this is an example of an immersive reader. In Microsoft Word, the latest version, it comes with an immersive reader. I know there are a lot of different apps that function in that same way, and there are different settings and ways of using those. That's something that may require some instruction or practice with that student. So I took a screenshot of the immersive reader when it's first opened, with the settings. There's a lot of things to adjust. I have an example of line focused at three lines rather than the whole piece of text. So there are other things to adjust and there are some keyboard shortcuts to turn on or off the read aloud feature. So the immersive reader read aloud feature can look and sound like this. [ Video ] So the settings on that read aloud can be changed to be slower or faster, just whatever is best for the individual. So my question is: What types of immersive readers are you using with students? Everybody out there in Zoom Land. Or some that you find that students prefer. Yeah. Don't hold back. 

>>Kaycee: We have in the chat NVDA. 

>>Emily: As a screen reader. And that one also requires some instruction in learning to read. But there are apps that you can get on an iPad or phone that would work as an immersive reader. Go ahead. 

>>Kaycee: We had a few others come in too. Somebody said Learning Ally. The reading mode in various apps in iOS. JAWS. Google has an immersive reader function. AIM books in electronic format. Book share programs and readers. Google read and write. Somebody else said Read and Write. 

>>Emily: Google does have the immersive reader and the Edge browser has it too. Anything in Microsoft has that, except for Excel. Okay. Now we're on to student number two. And this student's background is that they are 5 in kindergarten with an eye condition of Leber's congenital amaurosis that the ophthalmologist has noted has unstable. With an acuity of 20/300 and significant field restrictions. When thinking about the field restrictions, that also applies to the size of print. With a significantly-reduce field, depending on what it is, is it the central field, peripheral field, that can have an impact on that student's access to print. So the LMA findings and considerations for this student is that the student was able to identify 36-point letters at a close working distance. Able to name a realistic image, a photo, given high magnification, as in the use of a CCTV. The student demonstrates visual fatigue after ten minutes. That was observed by eye rubbing. Sometimes for the younger students, like eye rubbing, closing eyes, putting head down on desk. You know, getting up to sharpen their pencil three times. Things that they are giving themselves that vision break. And the student tactually explores about to confirm visual identification. So you're naming an object and then checking to see if that's correct, through tactual exploration. The student's also easily distracted by classroom conversations. And sometimes doesn't seem to understand directions. And there can be various reasons that's happening for a student. But one thing to consider is auditory and listening skills. Because for that student, there's a lot going on in the environment and that student may need instruction in what to pay attention to, how to sequence what's being heard. And that's something that is addressed, especially with reading in classrooms, about naming the sequence of events and identifying key main characters and plots, et cetera. And this student also doesn't attempt to view a computer screen. So, you know, that's an indicator that maybe that student has no access to the computer screen because of how it's positioned, the size of the images and print on the screen. So that's really something to consider when thinking about assistive technology for the student. So recommendations based on the LMA findings. Sensory channel as primary tactual and secondary visual. That would be based on a few things and one being a tactile approach to verifying what an object is. The visual fatigue. So ten minutes -- visual fatigue after ten minutes is something that would be hard to sustain with reading and to develop fluency, which can also impact comprehension. And so secondary visual for the student, because the student is able to access images, like photographs, with magnification, which supports concept development. And then, of course, beginning Braille instruction. Use of magnification, like a CCTV, for viewing photos. Images to support concept development. Develop and practice listening skills. And explore options for computer access. So instructional needs for that student -- and that's based on the information from the LMA data. And you have identified -- any recommendations have been identified. That student will need instruction in Braille reading and writing. Further tactile exploration and discrimination skills that supports the use of tactile graphics. And understanding, identifying smaller manipulatives and how to use them and how to use those tactile graphics. And then teaching independent use of an electronic video magnifier or CCTV. So at this age, maybe that's always been set up by an adult. But in order for the student to be able to have success with accessing those visual images, being able to do it independently, is really important. And then instruction in auditory discrimination skills and sequencing of events or instructions. And then, finally, computer concepts. So if a student hasn't been attempting to look at the computer, things like does it have a keyboard, what kinds of things the computer does, what you use it for will be a starting point for getting ready to use a screen reader down the road. So then we get to thinking about implementation. So my question is: When thinking about a student with dual media, has that been an issue or has anyone experienced it as an issue when getting to implementation, as far as communicating with others on that student's educational team about the plan? About when and where the dual media will be used, or specific media will be used. Because I think -- and I've experienced that the -- sometimes other people, classroom teachers on that student's educational team will make assumptions that the student can see and see some things that they would be print r readers, and the use of tactual media is not as important. 

>>Kaycee: This is Kaycee. We had a comment come in very, very similar to that. Best shared. Many others think the student can see and read print so that's what they should use, not knowing the accessibility of Braille. 

>>Emily: That's really true. We all know that receiving materials in advance to be transcribed into Braille, those sorts of things are challenging. But this can become more of an issue if the teachers don't see the value of it. And so in order to communicate the value, that may require input from the student, input from the TVI and the family about the benefits to the student and the requirement of tactual media for that student. So some of the things to think about when you're thinking about implementation is determining the right media for the task. So for students using dual media, it might not be the same for everything across their day, including outside of school. So is that media for that task regular print or accommodated print? So print with magnification, large print, print with more white space. Print on colored paper or reduced clutter. Specific font styles. Not laminated material. You know, all of those things that apply to print is something that needs to be considered for a student, whether or not they're able to access regular print. Because that student, example number one, had issues with glare and lighting that would impact that access to print. And would need accommodation. And sop is the right media for that task Braille or tactile materials? Tactile materials may be a supplement to using primarily print materials and maybe Braille is the requirement for most of the school day. And then sometimes audiobooks or other auditory materials are the right tool for the task or the right tool for the time of day or for other situations that are going on with that student. And then to think about the when. What subject area, what time of day. Where is it happening. So how many people think or have had experience outside of school, thinking about the various types of media for the task and working with families or other adults who interact with that student, say an extracurricular activities, community activities? I think you can get to that same place of the assumption that the student can see so they don't need different means of access to information when they are in the community. Or at home. So what sort of parent information have you found helpful when going through the LMA process and going through determining dual media and what media for the task? So I found that sometimes information from the parent and the family really is important when thinking about the visual fatigue and thinking about is that student avoiding homework at home? And why is that? Is it because they're not getting the right media? Are they not getting homework in Braille when that's what they should be using? Or what helps them the most as far as access? Do they not have the right type of equipment at home? So that's that collaboration piece with the family and also with the student about what the needs are outside of the classroom. 

>>Kaycee: We had a few comments come in. Michelle said interviewing the parents on preferences and how the student accesses print at home. Rosalinda said most parents/students prefer auditory. Aracely said the parents sometimes give conflicting information that doesn't match up with what's being observed at school. 

>>Emily: Right. And so the preference for auditory -- why do you think that is? Rosalinda said that? 

>>Kaycee: Correct. 

>>Emily: Why do you think parents have a preference for auditory? Just curious about that. 

>>Kaycee: She said less time to have to work with their child. Aracely said easier and probably at the end of the day fatigued. Robbin said stigma for Braille. Christy said easier to access. Lea said perhaps familiarity. 

>>Emily: I think all of that. 

>>Kaycee: Michelle said: Can multitask. 

>>Emily: Yeah. Yeah. And some of the issue can be that the right media is not getting sent home, as well as some of those other things. The not having the time to accommodate material on their own at home can definitely be a factor. And I think one of the big factors to consider is that fatigue. Because I've heard from parents numerous times that the student is resistant to the homework. They come home and take a nap for an hour, hour and a half. That they are reporting headaches to the parent. And sometimes, depending on the age of the student, they won't report that at school. And sometimes they don't want to draw attention to themselves. They just kind of get through it. But when they get home, the parent sees a different child for all of those factors. And so you can hear from classroom teachers that a student never does their homework and it's because the student doesn't want to do it. You know, they're intentionally trying to avoid it when maybe it is those other factors. So for student number one, thinking of an example plan. So for all classes at school, the student would use 12 point print. We have determined that the 12 point print is successful. The student uses a closer working distance but has good fluency in reading speed. There wouldn't be a need to accommodate that print as far as making it larger. Clutter might not be an issue. But the thing to avoid would be the glossy or laminated materials, things that increase glare. And then in math and science, maybe also social studies, that handheld magnifier for viewing details and graphics and images, specifically. And then audiobooks, immersive reader, different options for extended reading, and especially at the end of the school day. So the student's reported visual fatigue after an hour. And even though there are vision breaks, maybe longer ones because of the type of class built in during the day, if that student is required to do a lot of reading or expected to do a lot of reading at the end of the day, that might be a good place to supplement with the auditory material. So this is an example of a written plan. And one of the benefits for the written plan is that it's communicated across to all team members for that student and to the family as well about when is that student using print. When is the magnification coming in and when is the auditory a key piece. So it's broken into the activity, the time of day, the type of media, and the tools needed. So for geometry, which the student has first thing in the morning for an hour. It would be 12 point print with magnification as needed and the tool being the handheld magnifier. And then that gives a little bit of a break. A little bit of a vision break. Five minutes before the next class. So, again, the same media as in geometry. So for most of the day it's the same media with the tools being a handheld magnifier. But in U.S. history using high-contrast maps would be included. Theater, no special tools required. Still using the 12 point print. Chemistry, again, is where that print with magnification comes in. So that's a vision break in theater but still a lot of visual demand has happened in the morning. And then lunch and clubs, 12:20 to 1:20. 12 point print, no special tools needed. Handheld magnifier, that's not really a special tool, but no tool to list on this plan. The same with consumer science. So in collaboration with the student and that teacher, you find out and the team finds out that there's low visual demand during that class because it's mostly hands-on activities. The students may be working in groups, working in pairs on whatever the assignment is. So the visual demand is low. And that student doesn't need a magnifier with them to get tasks done in consumer science. But at the end of the day, the student has English for an hour. So very little, five-minute vision break before English. So this is when the auditory could come in at the end of the day, because the student may be fatigued visually, likely fatigued visually, and this is a heavy near-vision task/class. So the tools would be the immersive reader, apps, and audiobooks during that English II class to supplement whatever else is happening in that class. And the student has tutoring and study hall on Tuesday/Thursday where, again, the media could be print and auditory, with a handheld magnifier available because whatever type of tutoring the student is going to. 

>>Kaycee: This is Kaycee. We had a few comments come in. Aracely said nice chart. And then Kim berry said electronic maps are being used by many of our students with albinism, whether on the iPad, Chromebook, computer, or personal device. 

>>Emily: So, again, it's a collaboration with the student what the preference is and what the right tool is. Whatever that is can be incorporated into the plan. Especially now in Texas, since you can't have phones or personal devices in your classroom, but that might be what's appropriate for that student and needs to be communicated and reflected in the IEP. So the plan for that student in the home and community is the use of that slant board at home that the student wasn't comfortable using in the classroom. That would be an opportunity to practice reviewing recorded lectures. And then the use of overlays or tinted paper, which the student wasn't comfortable using in the classroom but using that at home and those kind of materials provided for the student at home would be of benefit And then also the handheld magnifier and the telescope. So the telescope wasn't addressed previously in recommendations or instructional needs, but that could turn into an instructional need. Again, the correct magnification and power telescope would be information that would come from the low vision clinic to give the most accurate devices for that student. And so this example plan for student one in the home and community might not need a chart or table in the way the school plan was developed. So for student number two, the school plan is Braille for all reading material. And so this is a kinder student learning to read, but it would be important that that material is available in Braille, as well as environmental Braille, pleasure reading materials. Things to take home. And then for math and science, possibly social studies, that CCTV for viewing images and graphics paired with tactile graphics. And so not specified on this example plan, that use of the CCTV can support comprehension and concept development for reading activities as well. Because we know at that kinder level, the images and worksheets and the reader they're using do have pictures in order to support comprehension. So that could be a supplement for the student, depending on the type of material. And then the student would benefit from having auditory skills reinforced throughout the day. And that can also be done in collaboration with the classroom teacher. So this student's plan, this chart, table would look like morning meeting. The student has 30 minutes of morning meeting. And that would be Braille and auditory. Because the student is listening to information and that can involve sequencing, the student, as far as tools, would need a tactile Braille calendar, tactile weather chart, those types of materials, so they have access to what the other students are looking at. Then the student has a reading block, 8:30 to 10:00 where the primary media would be Braille. Tool might be a Perkins Braille writer. There's a lot of other tools that would go along with the reading. There's a lot to list but that would be important to incorporate all of that. Also along with the reading is thinking about adding tactile materials to the readers that are used to the books that are in the classroom library, to just increase engagement and interest for the student, in addition to using the CCTV, when appropriate. So the student has a movement break. The class has a movement break, which would be auditory. But that's somewhere in collaboration with the teacher. The student could work on the sequencing, listening to the directions, following the directions with the teacher being very intentional about saying all the steps in that dance or whatever is happening during movement break. So, again, moving into math. We have Braille and print. With print being the pictures or the images. And then the tools listed for that student. The CCTV, tactile doodle, abacus, and manipulatives. That's not an exhaustive list but just to think about what you would want to communicate with the classroom teacher and other educational team members about the tools that that student needs. 

>>Kaycee: Emily, this is Kaycee. We had a question. Is this student learning Braille at the same time that they are learning print visually or are they having direct Braille instruction to learn the code? 

>>Emily: Well, the recommendation was Braille instruction in reading and writing. And the print could be clarified to say images. Because the finding from the LMA and the recommendations were that the student was able to access a realistic image, like a photograph, and identify what was in the photograph visually, using a CCTV. So the print could definitely be incorporated with the understanding that it's not functional for extended reading. So I, in the past, had a student who was able to identify print letters but fatigued so quickly that even reading his name was a challenge. Or he could identify all the letters in his name but just reading it and identifying it out of context was difficult for him. Mostly because that sustained focus was a challenge. So when the student gets to lunch/recess/restroom, environmental Braille is useful but there's no specific tools needed. I'm leaving out O&M, as far as visual access. So social studies, again Braille and print. Meaning, images and graphics. So that's an opportunity to pair that image of the graphics with tactile graphics. So teaching those discrimination skills. How to explore tactile graphics. And that can be really reinforced through the use of a CCTV. And previous slides had an image of a girl doing just that. She's looking at the tactile graphic and exploring it with her fingers. So for PE, music, art, we're going with print, auditory. Here is a time that auditory could be incorporated because of the nature of these types of classes or activities. So with the print, again meaning looking at images. For science it's the same thing, with pairing those as it's appropriate. Again, focusing on using the access to images, to reinforce the use of manipulatives and tactile graphics. So by putting it again in this format, it's easy to communicate with other members of the team when the student's going to do what. When that print or images are going to be incorporated. And that maybe that's not what we're going to focus on in reading. It would be more of the Braille instruction and the use of Braille. For learning to read, it could be supplemented with print but understanding the print use is not really functional for that student for any extended time. So for this student, looking at the home and community and thinking about what does the student need at home, what types of materials and what tools. So sending homework in Braille. That's that carryover from school to home. And the homework might look like just books at home that are in Braille with tactile images to increase engagement. And provide something that the parent can read with the student to reinforce the learning of Braille. And then introducing the use of audiobooks for pleasure reading paired with tactile materials in Braille. So, the audio is a great way to relax and for a student to increase their enjoyment of reading. You want to make that reading motivating to them. But pairing it with the tactile materials is important for continued reinforcement of the Braille that they're learning and their tactile skills. And then also a CCTV, electronic video magnifier available to that student at home for viewing images and exploring object detail. So the same as that school. The same materials with the use of audiobooks being added in as a more extended auditory experience in reading, with that auditory not being relied on at school for learning to read. So some parts of the reading process are auditory, like phonemic awareness, but as other students have access to print during that process or when they move into phonics, that student needs that as well. So, it's really important to help communicate to the teachers that the student needs a tactile or print media and not just auditory. And through the use of those types of charts that really show when the student's going to use auditory, when the student's going to use a CCTV for what purpose. When the student's going to use Braille, I can really reinforce that primarily auditory is not the best way to approach reading or academic tasks, because the student needs a way to read independently to develop comprehension, understand punctuation, how material is laid out, say in a poem versus just paragraphs of print. So any other comments or thoughts regarding the plans? And would you find that useful in your practice with students as a way to communicate with the others on the educational team? 

>>Kaycee: This is Kaycee. We have had a couple of comments saying the charts are awesome and this is super helpful. Thank you for using student examples, that was really helpful. Lots of love coming in for the charts and the plan. Very useful, informative, especially for presenting to the educational team. 

>>Emily: Yeah. And I completely agree with that. Everything everybody said. And I love the charts because I made them. Just kidding. But that communication with the team can be really challenging. So especially, like for the student in high school who has seven different teachers, you know, that can be really hard to find the time to talk one-on-one with those teachers and explain what's going on and explain again why the auditory-only is not so useful for a student. Especially a student who is learning Braille. And is pretty low vision. So my other question is providing tools and materials at home, have you found that challenging? Because sometimes that can be, as far as the resources, say to provide a CCTV. 

>>Kaycee: While people are typing, Chrissy shared it's helpful to see how the LMA data transfers into a plan when you use a chart like that. 

>>Emily: And you said there was more typing? 

>>Kaycee: I said while people are typing. I'm assuming they're typing. [Laughter] 

>>Emily: Yes, that LMA data, thorough and rigorous LMA, can really inform your recommendations. When that's happened, then you would know that the recommendations are plausible, that they're accurate. But also adding in that collaboration piece with the student and the teachers is important, especially for older students who really need to be heard about what they're willing to or comfortable with using in the classroom. And it's not purely that they're trying to avoid doing those things. But hearing what they're comfortable with and what they're not and finding a way to provide the things that they are comfortable with at home.