TRANSCRIPT - TSBVI Coffee Hour: Getting the Lay of the Land: Transition from ECI to IDEA-Part B Ð 3/21/22
>>Kate: So, I want to introduce our presenters for today. They are joining us from Educational Service Center 13 in Texas, the State of Texas is divided into 20 educational regions. We call those Educational Service Centers. Austin, we are in region 13 and so this is who we have joining us today. I am going to first introduce, we've got Maryteresa Tracy, if you want to wave. She's going to be in the chat helping to field comments and questions there in the chat and then presenting we have Erica Cairns and Jennifer Russell and Vonecia Hines, who will be presenting. Vonecia, I think I'm throwing it to you first. 

>>Vonecia: Well, thank you, Kate. So just to get us started, I wanted to give an introduction. I know Kate did a wonderful job of giving our names but I wanted to introduce myself and my colleagues. My name is Vonecia Hines and I am the educational specialist in orientation and mobility at ESC13. My next colleague is Erica Cairns. 

>>Erica: Hi, everyone. I'm Erica. I'm a teacher of students with visual impairments and I am the educational specialist for visual impairment at region 13. And Jennifer. 

>>Jennifer: Hey, everyone. I'm Jennifer Russell and I am the Early Childhood Special Education specialist, we call it ECSE here in Texas. Prior I was in the classroom as an ESCE teacher for many years. 

>>Vonecia: And then finally, we do have our colleague Maryteresa Tracy. She'll be in the chat. She won't be presenting but we do want to give her an opportunity to introduce herself. 

>>Maryteresa: My name is Maryteresa Tracy. Like Jennifer I am an ESCE specialist, so Early Childhood Special Education. Before this I did a lot of work with behavior and teaching the classroom as well. 

>>Vonecia: Okay. So, let's get started. Today we will be talking about getting the lay of the land, the transition from ECI to IDEA Part B. So, from ECI into school. You can go to the next slide. Let me move my chat box out of the way. So today we would like to identify the differences between ECI and ESCE. Oh, goodness. And then we'll also consider the needs of family and students while transitioning into the public school. We will establish relationship-building strategies. We will implement strategies to support routines and daily schedules. And then we will also consider a variety of services that happen once a student goes into the school. Next slide. Okay. So, what is ESCE? Early Childhood Special Education. And this is a service, not a placement. Even though many people, whenever children get ready to transition into school, you think of a classroom. But this is a service, not a placement. And it's typically for children who qualify for services and are between the ages of 3 and 5. The services are usually provided at the local elementary school and here in Texas we are able to dual enroll students ages 3 to 4 who qualify for services. That may mean that a student could be at home or in a day care and also enrolled into the school. Just for a reference, that is in the student handbook and at the bottom there is a link for you to be able to access that. Getting into the differences between the ECI services and ECSE. There's a shift that begins to take place and a release of control from the family to the school system. So, looking at our first -- at the first column the ECI services are studentsÕ birth to 2 years old. It is a family-centered service. In the service students have what's called -- here in Texas could be individual family service plan, which is family guided and the family makes decisions about what goals are important for the family dynamic. Also, the services are provided in-home and in the community so services could take place at a park or at a day care or a church. Usually the contact is between the family and a provider and also the collaboration is between the family and service provider so there is a very close connection between the family and the service provider as far as what goals are, what services look like, and what the needs are. Okay? Then moving into ECSE services. These are for children who are 3 to 5. This now becomes student centered. So, we are now looking at the IEP, which is the individual education program. The family becomes a part of the IEP team which can sometimes be a little bit difficult because now you've gone from leading the show to now becoming a part of the team who now makes decisions for your child. Also, services are now provided in the school. Again, you do have the dual enrollment so it may not always be in school but part of it should be at the school. Okay? Contact now moves to the service being between the service provider and the teacher. And so, this may decrease between the family or be filtered through the teacher. So that's a little bit of a change and it's part of the release of control that happens because now the family may not be in as direct of contact with the service provider as they had been. And then, finally, as I was saying, the collaboration becomes between all three. The family, the staff, and the service providers. I do want to make note that the IFSP and the IEP, these are both legally-binding documents that are developed for the student. Okay? Next slide. So, preparing for the process. What does it actually look like? Okay. About 3 to 9 months before the child turns 3, a transition plan is developed with the ECI team and basically these are steps and services that are prepping the student to get ready to move into school. Okay. With VI services and DHH services, these are services that are already provided by the school so an ECI coordinator will notify the LEA of a student transitioning into school but the student should already be enrolled into their campus, their zoned campus. So, they are already an enrolled student if they are VI and DHH but they are at least notified. Next, we move into the transition conference. And this could happen with the LEA or the community program that the student may be moving into. And this happens before the child goes to school. Now, if it's the LEA, then the meeting takes place with the school district. But the student may also go into day care or a church program so the community transition conference may take place with one of them. Okay. And then, finally for the school district referral process starts. Here in Texas we have an ARD meeting but this is where evaluation consent is received and also evaluation occurs. All right. Next slide. So, moving into the ARD meeting and that is something that I recently learned, being a Texas native, that that is just something here that we say in Texas but out of the state it could be called an IEP meeting. So, the IEP meeting takes place and this is where you discuss your evaluations, you develop the IEP service times, goals. And we wanted to make note that your PLAAFP and your goals should move seamlessly. Sometimes you may look at a PLAAFP and the goals and say how do we get here. So, we want to encourage service providers to make sure that your goals are well connected to your PLAAFP so that we understand what the need is and how we are addressing the need or what the plan is to get past the need. And then, finally, we move into ECSE services and the students are welcome into school. I do want to make note that there is a link at the bottom of your slide that will take you into all of this process should you need it after the -- excuse me -- after this presentation. You'll be able to go to the link and get this process as well. Next slide. 

>>Jennifer: So Vonecia talked about that role release and how things are shifting and this is a really big shift when you think about going from ECI to ECSE. We're talking about a big change of setting. But she also mentioned that we're talking about the early childhood teacher, whether it's the pre-K teacher, the ECSE teacher or the day care teacher becoming the primary point of contact for families. And this is a big deal for families and for the child. So, what can early childhood teachers do to make this shift seamless, not stressful, and successful? Next slide, please. And if you're a TVI or COM on this Coffee Hour chat, feel free to pass along this information to ECSE teachers if you work with them or if you're an ECSE teacher on here, feel free to use these strategies. The bottom line is we always want to start with the relationship. This is something that we can start to work on before the child steps foot into a school because really building that positive relationship with families with the child is going to be the key to that seamless transition. We can do this in a number of ways. We can send a postcard to the child expressing excitement about being their teacher. We can call the family for an informal parent interview to learn about their child. We can do a home visit if the family is amenable. We can set up a Zoom with the child's team and family to introduce each other. And we can do an open house before school starts and this will give families and the child a chance to visit the classroom. So, let's flesh out these bullets a little more. Next slide. So, one very simple thing we can do before the child steps foot in the building is to call the family to learn about their child. I noy this might seem like a no-brainer but it's very quick and it's effective and the key to this is to make sure we're doing more listening than talking. This isn't an interrogation. This is a really good opportunity to hear the family's voice, to connect with them, and to really express that we're excited and interested to be their child's teacher. And we can learn all sorts of things through a simple phone conversation. We can learn about likes and dislikes around food, toys, and activities. We can learn about what might trigger their child but we can also learn from parents what soothes their child. That's a really important piece of information when a child is coming to school for the first time in a new environment. We can learn about favorite characters, songs, maybe sensations that they like. We can learn in terms of communication how do they get attention? How do they get your attention. We can learn from parents what are their hopes for their child this year. I think that's a very important question to ask. What do you hope? What do you want for your child? We might be surprised by the answer. And we could also learn about what are their fears. I think this is another important question because that's going to guide us in being able to be responsive and reassure them when needed. 

>>Sorry about that. 

>>Jennifer: That's okay. One more. Okay. We can ask them about strengths and challenges and then, finally, it's important to ask families how they like to be communicated with. I think this is something that often goes overlooked but you might have a family that prefers a once a week check in on the phone. You might have somebody who wants a note home every day. You might have someone who wants an e-mail check in. I think when we're seeking to build that trust and rapport, that communication piece is really important. Down at the bottom there is a link to an example parent interview and also on this page is an image of a listen icon with an ear and sound waves and the word "listen." Next slide. If the family is amenable, you can also do a home visit. Again, we want to stress do more listening than talking. We're not interrogating. We're talking it all in. So, in addition to everything that you might learn from a phone call, in the home you have the added benefit of getting to meet the child and you have a lot of really rich observation opportunities, not like we're taking notes but just to be present and see how the child navigates their natural environment, how they interact with people, and how the child chooses and interacts with toys. It's a good idea if you're going to do a home visit to chat with the TVI or COMS as they might have provided services in the home under ECI. They're going to have some valuable information and they might even be able to provide you with a things to look for list. Next slide, please. And finally, another thing you can do to build that relationship before the child even comes to school while they're making that transition is to do an open house. Typically school districts might have this before the start of the school year. That's one way to do this but you might also have children who are enrolling after the school year has started or enrolling in a daycare program and in that case your open house could be perhaps the child coming after students have been dismissed for the day so they get to see the classroom environment. And it's an opportunity for you to meet the child and the family. It's a great opportunity to give them information about the first week of school, if they're feeling stressed. It can help them to know the schedule, what is my child going to be doing? How am I going to get information from my child about you during the day or at the end of the day? You also get to observe how the child navigates the classroom and you can observe which toys and materials the child gravitates towards. This is going to be important, especially early on when you're looking for things that are engaging and reinforcing to the child. Everybody that works with the child is going to want to know what does this childlike. So that's what can be accomplished through doing an open house type of activity with families. Next slide. So just to sum up, I know it's not rocket science but we want to really bring it home that in order for transitions to the early childhood setting to be successful, the teacher really needs to begin building relationships with families and caregivers. You know, these children are coming from a scenario where they had a very maybe close daily communication relationship with TVI and COMS and it is different to switch to that teacher as the primary communicator. So, we want to do everything possible to make sure that families feel like their child is known and seen. And sometimes it can feel stressful when you know that oh now my child is in a situation with a bunch of other children and I'm so used to feeling like I'm the only one. So, we can start that relationship and trust-building early. And also, strong relationships need to be built between the early childhood teacher and the TVI and COMS. And I'm going to turn it over to Erica now so she can talk about that collaborative consultation piece. 

>>Thanks, Jennifer. Next slide, please. So, Jennifer spent a lot of time chatting about how important it is to build relationship with the family and the student but we also have to remember that we now have a whole new team unit. And so, I'm going to talk a little bit about how we can build new relationships as a team through collaborative consultation. Next slide. Okay. So, a great way to do that is to begin with a team meeting or staffing. I'm sure a lot of you do this already for your students but it's especially important to come together as a team when we're welcoming a new little one into an ECSE setting. Can you hit the next bullet, please? So, it's great for creating team communication guidelines starting with those clear communication guidelines for the team is so important. It kind of sets the tone for everything moving forward. A few of the things we need to really address here are the frequency, location, and duration of our team communications. A lot of teachers don't mind if we come in as a TVI or COMS and ask a question in the middle of a school day. Others would prefer we not so this is a great time to get all of that information so that we can be respectful of everybody's communication preferences. Next, please. This is also where we'll want to discuss our student's specific visual impairment and the implications of that. We'll also want to make sure that we address any additional sensory or mobility impairments and how they might impact access. Okay. A great thing to tie into that discussion on the student's visual impairment is sensitivity training. Again, I'm sure a lot of you may do this already but putting your service providers and classroom teachers under blindfold and a way to simulate the student's visual impairment can be incredibly helpful. If we can also mimic the educational setting in terms of noise and sensory information, all the better. And it kind of gives everyone a somewhat equal understanding of how the student's impairment might access their ability to connect with the curriculum. Next. Vonecia, make sure we put this one in as needed, provide sighted guide training for our students who might have more severe visual impairments. Next. We'll also want to review the IEP service times, settings, all those good things. And then, one more. Okay. We'll want to obtain daily schedules and routines and this is also a great time to become familiar with the campus. The COMS will want to know where all of the different locations are for services from the music room to the playground to the cafeteria. It's very important that all of the service providers know where everything is going to be happening. Next. This is also when we're going to want to discuss material and equipment needs for our students. We'll want to make sure that we know what we're going to need to bring into the classroom that's not already available. It's also something we'll want to talk about visual calendars and visual aids and how things within the classroom might need to be adapted. And then, finally, we really want to start talking about the Expanded Core curriculum and we're going to dive into that deeply in the next few slides. So using the language is really important. As we planned for this we talked about the importance of making sure that we're not overwhelming people with too much information. And it can be a fine line to balance in terms of using the appropriate language and not overwhelming with information. Next bullet point, please. So you can keep going. Thank you. So we really want to chat with the team about the Expanded Core Curriculum. We want to be able to define what it is. Next. We want to talk about why it exists and why we're using it with our students. Next. When we should talk about it and when it's appropriate to really dive deep. Next. [ Dog barking ] Sorry. The one thing I was hoping wouldn't happen. The dreaded dogs. All of the settings where the ECC should happen and who needs to know about it. We want to keep things simple. Again, in an effort to not overwhelm with all of the information at once, we really want to be sure to tease apart what's important for each of our students. Next. Thank you. So this graphic is from the Perkins School for the Blind incorporating the best learning approaches for your child with blindness or visual impairment. I love this graphic because it's that wheel with the core academics in the center and each of the nine areas of the ECC surrounding it as it's its own puzzle piece. I'm sure most of you are vision professionals so you're really familiar with the Expanded Core but it can sometimes be difficult to explain to people who aren't in the field. I do this all the time, because I know it and I have been doing it so long I just assume everybody else knows and sometimes it takes those questions from the other members of the team to really get that conversation going about what it truly is. And so we have the nine areas listed here of the Expanded Core. Compensatory or functional skills, O&M, sensory efficiency, self-determination, social skills, assistive technology, independent living, career and vocational skills, and recreation and leisure. So, again, as vision professionals we know that the ECC addresses concepts and skills that requires specially-designed instruction for students who are blind or visually impaired. These skills increase their access to the world and lead to independence, whatever that might look like for each student. I know that sometimes when I hear the word "independence" you know it's easy to think of complete independence. And this is where we really do need to specify that independence is going to look very different for each of our students depending on their needs. Next slide. Okay. In terms of the when, who, and where. Really, we are addressing the ECC as soon as we begin providing services. And that often, hopefully, fingers crossed, is starting in infancy when we're getting those babies in early childhood intervention. And then of course it continues beyond. Sometimes we get questions about, well, how would we talk about career education or social skills or independent living with an infant. In this graphic here is really great. It's from the same Perkins publication or document and it does break down how each of the different ECC areas can be addressed both in infant and toddlerhood, elementary school, and then if you were to follow the link to the document itself, it goes into secondary school as well. And we know that everyone can help support the ECC for our students. It doesn't take a teacher of students with visual impairments or an orientation mobility specialist on their own. It's the whole team. And then as we said before, we're addressing the ECC everywhere. In the home, in the community, in the classroom. Next slide. [ Dog barking ] So Jennifer shared this really great schedule of what a typical day in an ECSE classroom might look like in terms of routines. So what I thought we could do was kind of take what this typical day might look like and figure out how the ECC can be incorporated into each of these areas and vice versa. So in terms of the full day ECSE schedule, we have the activities of arriving. Usually there's an opening activity, whether it's the pledge or the calendar. Then we might go into circle time. A meaty chunk of the day might be centers where the students are transitioning from one center to another and are working on different activities. Snack time is a big part of the day. We also have read aloud. There might be some outdoor time. Lunch, rest, movement. All of these things are incorporated into the day and they're really rich areas for us to work with the ECC. Next. Thank you. I really wanted to include a quick visual of what an ECSE classroom might look like. This was actually a classroom I had the pleasure of working in a few years ago -- actually, just before COVID hit. And it's a beautiful space that was clearly defined into different centers. The first picture shows a large rectangular table with chairs around it. This is where the kiddos gathered for breakfast. I believe they did their writing center here as well. There's a sink behind there so they could wash their hands after snack, breakfast, and lunch. The second picture shows a flexible seating area. It was where the kids could kind of go to relax. If they wanted to look at a book on their own they could take it and curl up in one of those little chairs. The third picture shows one of the independent living centers that was set up. If you look closely you can see a little cash register. There are little kitchen items and shopping items there. And then the final picture shows a crescent table with chairs around it and that was where the teacher did kind of small group instruction. Next. I think having that visual helps in terms of picturing the different routines and activities from the day and how we can support the ECC in those different areas. So in terms of putting it all into practice, what might that look like. Initially, I was going to say each of the ECC areas could be addressed in every single one of those activities or routines. I figured that probably wouldn't be overly helpful to any of you so we did break it up in terms of, you know, kind of what's the meat of each area of the ECC and how might that relate to the activities in the day. So in terms of compensatory, we really want to focus on communication and conversation. And then beginning literacy as well. So some of the areas that we really kind of focus on a lot of that, those communication skills might be the arrival and departure each day. Connecting, the student connecting with the teacher or the paras or whoever they're going to be spending the day with, including their peers. The opening routines, circle time, snack time, read aloud, and outdoor time. Those are all really rich times for conversation and communication and beginning literacy. In terms of sensory efficiency, that's kind of where we want to talk about and encourage localizing sound, using vision to the extent possible, and practicing tactile and auditory discrimination. If we go back to that daily schedule, centers and snack time, read aloud, outdoor 

>>Thanks, Kate. I appreciate that. All right. Next slide, please. All right. So O&M. I'm sure Vonecia could offer a lot more on this particular piece but the arrival and departure routine is incredibly important to work in that O&M. Navigating around the room. So being able to move from center to center. The ECSE classroom that I showed you had really distinctive setups and it was easy to navigate but I'm sure you have all walked into classrooms where that might not be the case. This might be an area where the COMS could support both the student and teacher in terms of classroom setup and any involvement involving music and body concepts is really important for the O&M. Social interaction, that truly is an all-day activity/routine for our kiddos. But tying it into the communication, I think, is really important. So focusing again on those -- some of those same routines that we talked about with the compensatory skills. In terms of self-determination, that's where we want to talk about and support making personal choices and expressing feelings appropriately. So any area where students get to make choice and where they might have to deal with disappointment or excitement is one we really want to focus on self-determination skills. So centers, snack time, movement, music, and outdoor time might be really good for that. Next. And then here are the three I think that are really interesting when we're talking about our younger ECSE students because these are typically areas that we might not think about supporting or really prioritizing until our students are older. But it's actually really important that we begin focusing on them when they are ity bitty. For years and transition, this is where we can start talking about responsibility , putting things away, being responsible for our materials and items, cleaning up. This is also where we begin to educate on different. Who is the teacher, different community rules, firemen, police, parents. We can really begin to talk about that and lay the groundwork that will support students later on down the road when they are getting ready to transition from elementary to middle school, from middle school to high school, and then from high school on. Rec and leisure. I know that ECSE is a time for play. We know that children learn best through play, moving, and action. So hopefully the ECSE classrooms that you're spending time in or that you yourself teach are full of play opportunities. But specifically here in terms of the ECC we can really work into the centers and outdoor time, movement, music, and read aloud. And then independent living in some ways kind of speaks for itself. Starting to take actions for our own selves. Teaching them how to hang up their coat or put on their jacket, washing hands, pouring, pouring their own water, throwing away their trash. All of those things can be worked in here. Next. So how do we do this? How can we maximize our collaborative consultation and push-in time and limit our pull-out time. Some of us may be really familiar with providing our services in a one-on-one setting. We go in. We find our student and then we go find a smaller, quiet classroom and do our VI time. And that may be really appropriate for some students. But for our younger students, I think it's really helpful to consider ways that services can be provided in a way that allows the student to integrate skills in the classroom situation rather than in isolation. That ability to transfer skills is something that comes at later developmental stages. Our young friends are maybe not quite ready to transfer skills. So when we teach something in isolation or one-on-one, they may not be able to take that skill and then apply it within the classroom setting. So that's where the collaborative consultation and push-in really comes into play. Next slide. Actually, if you could go back up one. That would be great. Thank you. I'm sure a lot of you might be thinking, well, that all sounds great but we don't have the time. And that is true. It does. I think it's important that we do remember that the IEP is based on student need and not necessarily what our schedules allow for as service providers or teachers. So that's where that planning comes into play. Focusing on the student's needs, having a clear awareness of that, which hopefully came through the evaluation and is demonstrated in those present levels of performance that then drive the IEP goals will allow us to determine the most appropriate plan that focuses on the student need and allows for less of that pull-out time and more time either in the classroom or setting up the classroom teacher and classroom team for success in terms of the consultation we provide. Okay. Next slide. Thank you. All right. So as I said, it does take more time. When our student first begins, we know that it probably isn't on the first day of school. Their first day of school is when they turn 3. We do need to plan on being available to push in and be there for the classroom staff. It might be just the first day. It might be the first week. It might be a couple of weeks. It completely depends on the student and, you know, Jennifer spoke to the importance of getting to know our students and their families before school begins. And I think if we do that then we will have a better understanding of how much time to make available in our schedules so that we can make sure that the student has the support they need. We also need to recognize that it's an adjustment period for the student. And of course that's true for all students who are starting school, whether they are GenEd, special education, visually impaired or other. But we do need to remember that the visual impairment piece can be very different. When our students are missing visual incidental information, they may experience more anxiety. They may demonstrate more behaviors. Because they are not sure where they are. And so that's another important part of that assimilation into the classroom is giving them plenty of time to become comfortable and adjust. And that may take a lot of creativity across all of the team members in terms of support and collaboration. And then I think that's about it. Go to the next slide. So I see that there's a pretty busy chat. Are there any questions that we didn't answer as we went through or anything else that you would like us to kind of narrow in on? 

>>Kate: Yeah, one just came in, Erica. So Vanessa asks how do you justify, in parentheses, factors to consider when it comes to deciding how VI minutes should be provided? Is the visit a good tool considering that pre-K time is only a few hours within the day? 

>>Erica: That's a great question and the visit is a great tool. Using it with pre-K students can certainly give you an idea. You know, I think that it is interesting that the way we approach consultant direct service time can be very different and dependent on various factors. And so I think having that clear idea in mind when going through the visit would be really important. Vonecia, do you have anything to add to that? 

>>Vonecia: Whenever I plan for my students and then again you also have to take consideration into the adjustment time that a student may need. Because we do know that a student coming into school will need additional support. And that's something you have to factor in also. Because sometimes a visit is subjective to what the student is needing. So you can put that into the consideration when you're filling it out. 

>>Erica: I was listening, Vonecia. I promise. But I was also going back and reading through some of the other chats. And in terms of the comments about developmentally appropriate. I have been thinking about that a lot lately in some of the different work I've been doing and it's easy to maybe skip some steps or skip some concepts when we are working with VI-specific things. And it can be really helpful to go back to what is developmentally appropriate for a pre-K kiddo. And then here in Texas looking at that vertical alignment. Jennifer, I don't know if there's anything you want to add about that piece. 

>>Jennifer: You know, I think having, just like you said, making sure that that's at the forefront of our mind because we can -- especially when a child's adjusting. To say they're just adjusting without reflecting on our own teaching and what we're doing and so I think it's really important to keep that at the forefront and just know what is developmentally appropriate for early childhood. And then kind of seeing where our kiddo falls and adjusting accordingly. 

>>Erica: All right. Did we miss anything, Kate? 

>>Kate: I don't see any more in the chat. If y'all have a question, we've got just a few minutes for some questions, if you guys want to put that in the chat. Since I have the benefit of being able to unmute myself, I'll just ask my question out loud. So just wondering what advice or strategies y'all have. You know, one of the things as an itinerant teacher I felt worried or frustrated about is how do I ensure that strategies are happening when I'm not in the classroom. So what advice would you have for really collaborating with teachers and helping them to ensure that these strategies and everything are being implemented, even when we are not there. 

>>Maryteresa: I think one of the things that brings to mind, Kate, is the ability for the teachers to observe you doing those strategies in the classroom, just like maybe when you're not there. So I think modeling for teachers how you do something actually might give teachers the confidence to try it when you're not there. I think sometimes teachers don't do it because they're worried they're not going to do it right or they're worried it's too complicated. I think sometimes the more that you model within the classroom during that collaboration might give some of our ECSE teachers more confidence. 

>>Jennifer: I think to piggyback on that, Maryteresa, there might be some teachers that are new or who have not had a child with a visual impairment or DHH in their classroom who really might not know what their responsibility is in terms of continuing to implement strategies. They might have the perception where if they're not having those conversations with the TVI or COMS that this is your thing and this is my thing. And they're not seeing where they are a participant in this. So I think ensuring that you're having those collaborative discussions and giving very explicit examples of here's how you can support this in your teaching throughout the day, kind of like what Erica was talking about where we're working on these things all day every day and everyone is working on them. I think just having those conversations is a very important piece. And I think advocating for time to have those conversations can also be a very important piece because we know that we don't always get the kind of planning time that we need. And when I was in the classroom, I would go to my principal and say I have a new student. I need to have a little bit of extra time. Can you give me 15 extra minutes this week to meet with so and so to brainstorm and talk about how I'm going to effectively implement this child's program. Because I need some strategies that aren't coming to mind because I don't have as much experience with this. So I think it's a lot of communication as well. 

>>Kate: Thank you, all. Oh, we have Debra in the chat that says I became a VI because I had a child who needed the VI teacher to teach him Braille. The VI teacher told me I needed to repeat the lesson in the afternoon. So since I was learning Braille I decided to go for the certification. Debra, I love that! That's fantastic. See, we're really good at poaching people, bringing them in. That is wonderful. I have a question too, just for the -- I guess for the chat. One of the things when I was a school principal at the Utah School for the Blind is we implemented a home visit program in our preschool classrooms. We cut our preschool day down a little bit so that the teachers had time to continue doing the home visit. I'm just wondering if other folks are doing that with our -- with that early childhood age, if they're still continuing to work with families in their homes and if they are what they have found to be successful with that. Or if any of you all have some experience with that. 

>>Erica: The home visits are some of my favorite time with students and families. I think that it can be really eye opening for us in terms of the student and how they negotiate certain situations and certain environments. I see Shannon mentioned I used to in my classroom but not able to as an itinerant. I do my best to check in with families and send a newsletter. Yeah. I really, if nothing else, I always tried to get that home visit evaluation piece. And so then sometimes getting in that way can be helpful in maintaining. Even if they're sporadic visits or lessons. Again, tying it to the IEP can be really helpful too so if there's a specific need that needs to be addressed and it can be done in the home, then that can be included within the IEP. 

>>Vonecia: Also, I love the home visits. Whenever I was able to because sometimes I was able to see a child move more and more confidently when they were at home versus when they came into a new environment in the classroom and they may sit or they may not want to go anywhere. So you see the confidence change between home versus in the school. So I enjoyed being able to see the difference in the child from the two different environments. 

>>Jennifer: That's a really good point, Vonecia. I worked at a school where home visits were kind of the norm and I didn't always get to do them for every single student but I always made sure to send a postcard and to do the phone call and to have an open house. I liked to do the parent interview over the phone because I felt like -- I felt like families have to fill out a lot of forms and I thought let's not give them one more thing they have to fill out. Let's just have a conversation. And I can do the work of filling things out where they can't see me. And we can just keep it casual. And I found that that, you know, even though I didn't get to see the child in their environment, it was interesting to hear from the parent things about their child. And then, you know, maybe by contrast see things that weren't yet transferring when they came to school. So I think we could accomplish some of that similar -- we could get some similar information but maybe a little different because it's over the phone. 

>>Kate: I like that a lot, Jennifer. I know that I'm more apt to explain myself better in like in talking whereas on a form my answer might be five words long. Yeah. 

>>Jennifer: Yeah, for sure. When it's a conversation I think you get so much more. And also I had a lot of families who were non-native English speakers and so there were, you know, having somebody who was able to -- you know, I had a paraeducator who also spoke Spanish so she was able to field some of those calls. We were able to do that via speaker and so we just, you know, we would make those connections however we can and make sure that because it's a collaborative process everybody's involved, including the paras. 

>>Kate: Well, Erica, Jennifer, Vonecia, Maryteresa, we really appreciate you taking time to be with us today. This is -- oh, man, this is just such an important topic. If we can just give our littles this good foundation, they're going to be set for the rest of their school career. Working with families is such a big important part of that.