CHAT - Tactile Language Development in Students who are Congenitally Deafblind � 8/29/22 From Texas Closed Captioning to Host and Panelists: Hi there! From Suzanne Martin to Everyone: Beaumont TX From Susan Hunt to Everyone: Hi from Ontario, Canada From Angela Howe to Everyone: Hi from Grand Prairie From Hillary Keys to Everyone: Hi! White Settlement From Shawn Gumeny to Everyone: Hello from NJ! From Cristina Zapata to Host and Panelists: El Paso, TX From Linda Jordan to Everyone: Hi Guys! From Edgenie Bellah to Everyone: Hello from Austin! From Brenna Brillhart to Everyone: Howdy from Mesquite! From Margaret Hunt to Everyone: Hi from NC From Jessica Gauthier to Host and Panelists: Green Bay, WI From Amanda Crayton to Everyone: Good afternoon from Albany, NY From Carrie Andrews to Everyone: Hey from Arkansas From Nancy Hatfield to Host and Panelists: Hello from Seattle, WA! From Angela Leavens to Host and Panelists: Angela from Calgary From Lori Martin to Everyone: Roanoke, VA From Christy Rosalez to Host and Panelists: hi from Brownwood TX From Elsa Hernandez to Host and Panelists: Hi from El Paso TX From Stephanie King to Everyone: Hi from Sheldon, TX From Kathi Garza to Everyone: Hello from down the hall! From Connie Robinson to Everyone: Greetings from Memphis! From Rebecca Millett to Everyone: Happy Monday everyone! From Odessa, TX From Kimberly Kernstock to Everyone: Hi from Bay City, MI From Megan Mogan to Everyone: My two favorite people!! Hi from Tucson!! From Erica Cairns to Everyone: Hello from Austin! From Andrea Skrocki to Everyone: Hi all from Bay City, MI From Marinda Diehl to Host and Panelists: Hi from Midland, Texas From Karen Baker to Host and Panelists: Hi from Waco. From Kate Borg (she/her) to Everyone: Today’s handout: https://tsbvi.live/coffeehour From Elsa Hernandez to Everyone: Hi from El Paso TX From Julie Daniel to Everyone: hi...from Nebraska From Debbie Brackett Grimaldi to Everyone: Kate, TWC has blocked the handout link/website. Is there a way you can email it please? From TSBVI Outreach Media to Everyone: Debbie what is your email? I can send it over. From Brenna Brillhart to Everyone: The link to the handout is blocked by my school too. My email is bbrillhart@mesquiteisd.org From Kate Borg (she/her) to Everyone: https://nordicwelfare.org/en/publikationer/if-you-can-see-it-you-can-support-it-a-book-on-tactile-language/ From Debbie Brackett Grimaldi to Everyone: Debbie.BrackettGrimaldi@twc.texas.gov. Thanks so much. It's good to see you again. :) From Kate Borg (she/her) to Everyone: Download the book: https://nordicwelfare.org/en/publikationer/if-you-can-see-it-you-can-support-it-a-book-on-tactile-language/ From Kate Borg (she/her) to Everyone: Join our book study! https://txtsbvi.escworks.net/catalog/session.aspx?&session_id=40535 From TSBVI Outreach Media to Everyone: Debbie and Brenna, handouts have been sent to your email. From Natasha Baebler to Everyone: Is the PDF version screen reader/braille display accessible? From Kate Borg (she/her) to Everyone: I believe it is From Kate Borg (she/her) to Everyone: Download the book: https://nordicwelfare.org/en/publikationer/if-you-can-see-it-you-can-support-it-a-book-on-tactile-language/ From Linda Jordan to Everyone: I tried to order and it's not accepting my phone number, any suggestions? From Debbie Brackett Grimaldi to Everyone: Got it, Kate. Thanks! :) From Kate Borg (she/her) to Everyone: @Linda, you may need our country code, which is +1 From Courtney Forman to Everyone: Might need to change the phone number to US (+1) because default is SWE From danika dunlap to Everyone: Totally agree. sign language is very visual. From Wendy Bumbico to Everyone: Yes, I agree! From Brenna Brillhart to Everyone: When I think of sign language, I think of visual representation like highly iconic signs. It is a different perspective to think of sign as NOT being based on visuals only From Debbie Brackett Grimaldi to Everyone: unless you are using tactile sign language, that is very true. From Debbie Brackett Grimaldi to Everyone: also, haptic and ProTactile signs are now being used From Kathi Garza to Everyone: It reminds me of what we talk about using tone and inflection in oral language From Charity Hoedebeck to Host and Panelists: Yes my son looks for something to touch in reference to the sign so he understands what we are talking about. From Kathi Garza to Everyone: What you say doesn't really matter as much as HOW we say it From Cheryl Schulik to Everyone: The person is trying to connect images/signs which can be misinterpreted due to lack of full access. From Hillary Keys to Everyone: I think this underscores the importance of being attuned to bodily emotions traces (BETs) in concert with a more formal tactile communication mode individualized to the individual who is deafblind. From Jessica Ennis to Host and Panelists: This makes me wonder about the place of Protactile (knowing this book is from an outside the US context). From Kate Borg (she/her) to Everyone: I think of our students who are congenitally deafblind, who may need a language very specific to them. From Kate Borg (she/her) to Everyone: Not necessarily a “standardized" language From Hayley Broadway to Everyone: yes, protactile is an important groundbreaking study going on now, and its modality is completely tactile. From danika dunlap to Everyone: It makes sense that language starts with personal experiences not necessarily what pre-k curriculum starts with... From Kate Borg (she/her) to Everyone: Yes to this quote!! How can we help our students tell their stories? Every student has that right, and it's up to us to be the creative thinkers to understand what they are already telling us From Edgenie Bellah to Everyone: I love that this quote helps us focus on learning what the person WILL tell us. Not us teach them words but be ready for them to teach us! From Megan Mogan to Everyone: Telling one's story gives a window into that person's lived experience too. Their interests, motivators, etc. will be different from those who use eyes and ears to sense the world. From Angela Howe to Everyone: I love that is say we have to believe in them. So many people still believe nonverbal deaf cannot share their thoughts From Kathi Garza to Everyone: At least your Monday is consistent From Alyssa Loberti to Everyone: It takes a very in-tune, responsive communication partner to recognizes subtle forms of communication. From Kathi Garza to Everyone: I love this and think it applies to ALL communication. Honoring attempts at communication reinforce the signal as meaningful, and hopefully it encourages the child to do it again From Alyssa Loberti to Everyone: Yes--anything to continue that back and forth! From Charity Hoedebeck to Host and Panelists: They can have their own language From Margaret Hunt to Everyone: I've always believed that for you to connect with any child with a disability, you should enter into their world. From Cheryl Schulik to Everyone: Years ago I heard this as serve and return. From Kate Borg (she/her) to Everyone: *Make sure your chat is set to “Everyone” From Debbie Brackett Grimaldi to Everyone: Reminds me of when I was working with a child with autism who was DeafBlind and his way of communicating was to dance and rock. When we did the same thing he was doing, he would stop, look at us and smile then continue. Otherwise, he didn't acknowledge us at all. From Jessica Ennis to Host and Panelists: Everyone is communicating all of the time, it's up to each person in an exchange to tune-in and interpret what anyone is saying whether in speech, gesture, etc. From Alyssa Loberti to Everyone: This is interesting because it seems to somewhat conflict with the theory of "presumed competence" From Kate Borg (she/her) to Everyone: I disagree…it's up to us to become competent in their language. From Alyssa Loberti to Everyone: Totally agree with that From Charity Hoedebeck to Everyone: I wish more doctors/therapist had this view! From Jessica Ennis to Host and Panelists: I think the key is “cannot receive." Which has nothing to do with competence, rather, is about access to what is being communicated. From Kate Borg (she/her) to Everyone: And it's not just a "foreign language”. This would be like someone trying to tell me things in morse code. I don't even have access to that. From Hillary Keys to Everyone: I'm not sure of the context of this quote, but I wonder if it reflects the US mindset as opposed to the Nordic mindset toward access to unique types of communication. From Jessica Ennis to Host and Panelists: ie a hearing person talking to a Deaf person in spoken English who doesn't have access to that speech isn't going to get much across. From Hayley Broadway to Everyone: think about natural languages that are reciporical From Alyssa Loberti to Everyone: Morse code is a great example From Kate Borg (she/her) to Everyone: I bet we have folks here not even alive in 1989! From Hayley Broadway to Everyone: i like this one From Michelle Haproff to Host and Panelists: “Unlock” is such a perfect term From Jessica Ennis to Host and Panelists: I do too. The tactile sense is powerful and a natural way for DB children to learn. From danika dunlap to Everyone: absolutely. It is the most reliable even if they have residual vision or hearing From Traci Arnold to Host and Panelists: I like that this quote points out that each child has a "curriculum" specific to them! From Kate Borg (she/her) to Everyone: (Make sure to set your chat to “everyone”) From Hayley Broadway to Everyone: we need to think about DB kids as self-agents, and tactile modality, if we make space for that, it unlocks the inner self agency From Kate Borg (she/her) to Everyone: Yes! Think about the lives of these kiddos. How many decision are made for them? How much are they acted upon versus getting the opp to act for themselves? From Alyssa Loberti to Everyone: I would think this would encompass hand under hand that I know is recommended over hand over hand .. not even just for our dual sensory kiddos, but all kiddos From Angela Howe to Everyone: I worked with a deafblind infant who didn't like shoes. Her mother said it was because with shoes she couldn't feel the things in the bed. I thought it was great that she recognized her daughter need to be able to explore with more than just her hands From Jessica Ennis to Host and Panelists: Absolutely @Kate Borg. Their agency is taken from them often. From Hayley Broadway to Everyone: bingo, i am usually barefoot lol From Jessica Ennis to Host and Panelists: @Angela that makes so much sense! I have heard shoes referred to as oven mitts for our feet! From Gloria Richmond to Everyone: I vibration feeling the music. From Hayley Broadway to Everyone: for those who do not know, I am DeafBlind. From Kathi Garza to Everyone: I tried hand under hand with my son and my niece, and they acted like they had no idea what I was doing and would move my hands on top of theirs From Alyssa Loberti to Everyone: Thanks for being willing to share with us, Haley! From Jessica Ennis to Host and Panelists: This quote reminds me of Terra Edward's writing about "rechanneling language" From Alyssa Loberti to Everyone: Wow so even from a scientific perspective, it is true! From Hillary Keys to Everyone: This research and brain plasticity fascinates me. From James Kadlecek to Everyone: Shows the importance of repetition of skills and activity to sharpen that wiring to further develop finer skills tactually. From Hayley Broadway to Everyone: kids will withdraw their hand when its a new concept to them, hand under hand, so we gotta keep on trying without forcing it From Kathi Garza to Everyone: Totally From Kathi Garza to Everyone: Kaycee, do you think there's a fine line between this research and the "sensationalizing" of "super powers"? From Kathi Garza to Everyone: as in "People who are blind can hear and smell so well" From Kathi Garza to Everyone: I agree, the ability to compensate and develop those other senses is totally valid, but I like hearing the WHY as opposed to just the judgement that it is so. This is cool From Jessica Ennis to Host and Panelists: I wonder this myself @Kathi. I know at Gallaudet they have done a lot of studies of Deaf sighted peoples' vision being different than that of hearing sighted people. Especially peripheral vision. It's tricky though not to fall into the stereotype you mentioned. From James Kadlecek to Everyone: I think it develops over time and not instantly especially for adventitiously blinded. From Hayley Broadway to Everyone: and i can vouch for this quote, when i work blindfolded, and train others that way, a new world opens up in its tactile sense. From Kate Borg (she/her) to Everyone: And to recognize that it's not so much a superpower as it is what we are asking the student to pay attention to. From Carrie Andrews to Everyone: bah From Stephanie Mundinac to Everyone: bababa From DJ Dean to Everyone: bah From Traci Arnold to Everyone: baa baa baa From michelle coleman to Everyone: baba bababa From Suzanne Martin to Everyone: ba From Pam Christensen to Everyone: ba From Shawn Gumeny to Everyone: bababa From Donna Clemens to Everyone: bah From Elsa Hernandez to Everyone: Ba ba ba From James Kadlecek to Everyone: ba, ba, ba ba From Brenna Brillhart to Everyone: bah bah black sheep! From Jennifer D'Alessandro to Everyone: bababab From Kathi Garza to Everyone: Ba ba ba From Courtney Forman to Everyone: ba ba ba From Leslie Hagood to Everyone: baa baa baa From Kate Borg (she/her) to Everyone: ba ba ba From Hillary Keys to Everyone: Bah or Baa baa baa From Wendy Unwin-Watson to Everyone: ba hbahbah From susan kemp to Everyone: bah bah bah bah bah bah bah bah bah … From Cheryl Schulik to Everyone: Bahbahbah From Michelle Haproff to Host and Panelists: Bah bah bah From Angela Howe to Everyone: bababa From Charity Hoedebeck to Host and Panelists: Ba ba bah From Christal Suson to Everyone: bababa From Judy Alford to Everyone: Ba ba ba From Kimberly Kernstock to Everyone: Ba ba ba From Margaret Hunt to Everyone: bababa From Debbie Brackett Grimaldi to Everyone: I've always been a very tactual/visual person even before I found out I was hard of hearing. Now that I'm losing my vision too, it's a little difficult to know I can't rely on my vision as much as before. Hopefully my brain will plasticize. lol! From Linda Jordan to Everyone: bah bah From Heather Ridgway to Everyone: ba ba bahhh From Jessica Gauthier to Host and Panelists: Baa baa baa From Lydia Bahuman to Everyone: bababa From Jessica Ennis to Host and Panelists: I'm watching with the sound off haha but I guessed “bad bad” From Andrea Skrocki to Everyone: ba repeated but in various lenths From Debbie Brackett Grimaldi to Everyone: fa fa fa From michelle coleman to Everyone: bababa From Traci Arnold to Everyone: fa fa fa From Carrie Andrews to Everyone: fa From Stephanie Mundinac to Everyone: vavava From Elsa Hernandez to Everyone: Va Va Va From Heather Ridgway to Everyone: va va vahhh From Angela Howe to Everyone: fafafa From James Kadlecek to Everyone: va va va From Alyssa Loberti to Everyone: I love this theory!! I wrote a paper on this in undergrad. Still amazes me. Ba ba ba first, then fa fa fa From Pam Christensen to Everyone: fa fa From Leslie Hagood to Everyone: faa faa faa From Kate Borg (she/her) to Everyone: va va va From DJ Dean to Everyone: fafa From susan kemp to Everyone: bah bah bah bah bah bah From Jessica Ennis to Host and Panelists: Looks like Fafa From Wendy Unwin-Watson to Everyone: fahfah From Kathi Garza to Everyone: Va va va From Andrea Skrocki to Everyone: va va From michelle coleman to Everyone: fafafa From Kimberly Kernstock to Everyone: fa fa fa From Donna Clemens to Everyone: ba fa fa From Shawn Gumeny to Everyone: bababa From Jessica Gauthier to Host and Panelists: Baa ba ba ba From Vivecca Hartman to Host and Panelists: Ba From Courtney Forman to Everyone: va va va From Hillary Keys to Everyone: Sounds like Ba but looks like Fa From Michelle Haproff to Host and Panelists: Bah bah bah From Brenna Brillhart to Everyone: fah fah fah From Lydia Bahuman to Everyone: vava From Margaret Hunt to Everyone: bafaba From Charity Hoedebeck to Host and Panelists: Va va va From Linda Jordan to Everyone: fah fah or va va From Pam Christensen to Everyone: I had to look at his lips to see the "f" sound From Gloria Richmond to Host and Panelists: Ah ah ah From Jennifer D'Alessandro to Everyone: vavava is what his lips are saying but sounds like babababa still From Lisa Gray to Host and Panelists: Ba ba ba Ba ba ba From Judy Alford to Everyone: Va va va From Debbie Brackett Grimaldi to Everyone: how can the sound be the same? he had his teeth on his lips. From Wendy Unwin-Watson to Everyone: at first I thought the second was the same bahbah but I looked at his mouth and changed my mind to fah From Michelle Haproff to Host and Panelists: I was only listening, not looking From Alyssa Loberti to Everyone: This is why masks make things so difficult!! For communication purposes. From Kate Borg (she/her) to Everyone: This reminds me of teaching my student soft "th" versus “f”. We put gloves on and put her fingers in/on my mouth. But, she got it! From Lisa Gray to Host and Panelists: Yes masks complicate everything From Jessica Ennis to Host and Panelists: That is fascinating. Sight is playing with our brains here. From Debbie Brackett Grimaldi to Everyone: I don't see how that is possible. If you try to make the "b" sound with your teeth on your lips, it doesn't happen. :::shrugs::: From Jennifer D'Alessandro to Everyone: Debbie I am sure it is a voiceover From Debbie Brackett Grimaldi to Everyone: oh!! Okay, I get it. :) Deaf person here... lol! From Jessica Ennis to Host and Panelists: @Debbie I assume the video and audio are not the same From Brenna Brillhart to Everyone: There was a split second I closed my eyes and listened and thought I heard baba but when I opened my eyes again my brain was back to telling me I was hearing fafa From Debbie Brackett Grimaldi to Everyone: makes complete sense! From Hayley Broadway to Everyone: exactly, we should be shifting to what we can focus on, tactility has endless possibilities. From Hillary Keys to Everyone: I think this is reminder for us to consider the whole individual, not just parts. From Brenna Brillhart to Everyone: Very powerful quote, and always refreshing to see an AuD recognize the needs of things besides the ear! From Stephanie Mundinac to Everyone: I read a quote by Maria Montessori that said "what the hand touches, the mind remembers". great basis for tactile instruction. From Charity Hoedebeck to Host and Panelists: Again we need more professionals that think this way! From Kimberly Kernstock to Everyone: I like that quote Steohanie! From Pam Christensen to Everyone: I thought I heard "ba" but then I looked at his face and saw the "f" formation on his lips. I do have a hearing impairment and so look a lot at people's faces when they talk. I use that visual component to make sure I see what I am hearing to help me with clarification. From Rebecca Millett to Everyone: This is why I get frustrated when others think "I only work with ears or sign" and they don't understand the importance of DHH services beyond sign language and hearing aids. From Hillary Keys to Everyone: Lilli Nielsen wrote a book called "The Comprehending Hand" which goes along with our discussion. From Cheryl Schulik to Everyone: I still have not figured out the phone number. From Kate Borg (she/her) to Everyone: https://nordicwelfare.org/en/publikationer/if-you-can-see-it-you-can-support-it-a-book-on-tactile-language/ From Cristina Zapata to Everyone: Yes you have to look for it From Kate Borg (she/her) to Everyone: Book Study: https://txtsbvi.escworks.net/catalog/session.aspx?&session_id=40535 From Kate Borg (she/her) to Host and Panelists: I From Kate Borg (she/her) to Host and Panelists: I’ll take a minute and explain the book studies for the year From Carrie Andrews to Everyone: Is it one chapter per meeting? From Laura Rachal to Host and Panelists: Do you need to commit to all? From Laura Rachal to Host and Panelists: Our Fall Break is Sept 29th-out of the country From Laura Rachal to Host and Panelists: Thanks From Jill Smith to Everyone: Thank you for sharing! From Debbie Brackett Grimaldi to Everyone: Great discussion! Thank you all for everything! 😀 From Jessica Ennis to Host and Panelists: Thank you for hosting this discussion! From Kaycee Bennett to Everyone: Thank you all so much for participating! I hope you'll come to our study group! Everyone is welcome! From Hayley Broadway to Everyone: thank you From Nancy Hatfield to Host and Panelists: How great is this idea of a Coffee Hour Book Group! Looking forward to diving into this book. Thank you! From Brenna Brillhart to Everyone: Thank you Kaycee! Always such a joy when you share your knowledge. Looking forward to participating in the book study! From Gloria Richmond to Everyone: Thank you. Do we have a code for a certificate From Nancy Hatfield to Everyone: Can't wait to dive into this book! Thank you. From Kaycee Bennett to Everyone: Kate will give the code in just a minute From Kimberly Kernstock to Everyone: Thank you! From Kate Borg (she/her) to Everyone: 082922 From Kathi Garza to Everyone: Well done!