TSBVI Coffee Hour
Low Vision Conference: A Look Back, A Look Ahead

>> Hello! Captioning test. 

>> Hi there! This is a captioning test. 

>> Kate: Welcome, everyone. We'll get started in just a minute or two. As you're coming in, take a minute to look at your chat box. You're going to want to make sure that the little drop-down menu says All Panelists and Attendees. I know our presenters are anxious to have some good discussion that will happen in the chat box, so you want to make sure that you're seeing questions. So, again, in the chat box, make sure the drop-down menu is saying all panelists and attendees. We'll get started in about one more minute. Hi, Cheryl from Dallas. Glad you're here with us. Wendy, that's okay, because we mute everybody's cameras and microphones everybody. Brenda and Karen, hello. All right. Oh, it's our friend Cathy from Tucson. I don't know where Grand Prairie ISD is. I'm going to look that up. 

>> Cynthia: Fort Worth area. 

>> Kate: Thanks. I've got cousins up there. So, I should learn. I should learn. Awesome. Let's get started. I've got some announcements before we turn the time over. First of all, welcome. Happy April fool's. I hate April Fool's Day because you just can't trust anything. But I promise the information that you get today is going to be real. It will be good. Please note that your microphones are muted and your cameras are turned off automatically, so you don't need to worry about those. During the presentation, if you have questions, please go ahead and use the chat box, but make sure that little drop-down menu says all panelists and attendees. So that everyone can see your questions or comments. If it just says all panelists, only we can see it. The handout for today's session has been shared in the chat, and we'll share it a couple more times, so that you can view that immediately. It will be available later along with the recording of this session and our past coffee hour sessions. You can find that on our coffee hour web page at tsbvi.edu/coffeehour. So once you're there, you'll scroll down. Under the list of sessions where it says visit the new TSBVI outreach coffee hour archives, and that's the link that will take you to the recordings, handouts, transcripts, et cetera. Just a reminder to obtain your CEUs or your professional development credit. You'll respond to the evaluation. It will be emailed to you later today from our registration website ESC works. And you'll enter the code that I will give you at the end of the session. So we'll stop the presentation at about 12:55 to give you that code and announcements. I'm happy to introduce our presenters. We have Cynthia Bachofer, Lynne McAllister, Eva Lavigne, and Carrie Farraje, all from Outreach. 

>> Cynthia: Okay. Glad you've all joined us today. As Kate said, my name is Cindy Bachofer, and I'm the low vision consultant at TSBVI. And Carrie, Lynne, and Eva will be sharing some information a little bit later, so they'll come back on. I'm so pleased they were willing to -- they're part of our planning committee. And the expertise they bring to development of these conferences. There are multiple committee members, and I just really appreciate that they came in to put together this coffee hour. So, today, we're going to take a look back at some key takeaways from past conferences. For five years now, we've been doing the Low Vision Conference, and each year, it's been a new model. So we want to highlight some key documents and resources. And give a view of our upcoming conference that will take place on April 30th, and we'll show you the link to register for that. So, lots of info in this. I want to give a little background about myself in growing up with low vision. The mid career change I made into vision work. And then my focus at TSBVI. So when I first came to campus, I was a teacher in short-term programs, and we did programs, weekend, with a low vision focus, and so many of those weekends I remember because the students got to know each other, you could just feel that protective internal shield that they wear. It would come down, and I can hear the students expressing the loneliness and the frustration that they were feeling as they explained, I'm the only kid in school who has low vision. And then of not having the words to explain what growing up with this is like, of not finding the comfort level, in bringing that low vision into their self-identity. And the students would just get together and talk. And I can remember all of this so keenly from my school years as well. And it's now three decades later. And I'm just -- the question, has this gotten any better, and what can we do to bring a positive change here? And I think the low-vision conference is one response to that, that we're bringing attention to that topic. I know growing up, it always holds loneliness and frustration. That's just part of the process. But when it's compounded by having a disability, and it's one of those not so apparent or invisible disabilities, then it can get very confusing for how to think about yourself. Especially when you're seeing siblings and peers, they're not having that same struggle. And I came into adulthood knowing very little about my low vision and nothing about the world of vision professionals. I'd always been a good student and it seemed like I was fine. And I think that's so often what we hear about students who are out in the districts. He's doing fine. I've done passing, trying to cover it up. And I also recognized as I got into my 20s and 30s that I internalized a lot of inferiority and anger, and not having services, not having met another person with low vision until I was in my 30s. So it was this frustration that drove me to make a change to Nashville, and I by chance took a secretary position at Vanderbilt University and landed at Anne Corn's office and learned about the program for visual disabilities. And as I was taking classes, finally I recognized myself in those Tex book chapters that we read and then talk about in class, and I started my collection of articles. Anything I could find on that psychosocial issue and low vision, whether it's self-concept, self-esteem, self-identity, I was gathering all of it. And I was able to focus on this topic later in my Ph.D. dissertation, and I'll mention that a little bit later here. So my current role at TSBVI is low vision consultant and one of the primary responsibilities is the lead on that annual low-vision conference and planning with the committee. And one of our initial decisions when we first met nearly six years ago was that the students who are primarily print readers would be our focus population, and we had three reasons for this. They are the majority of students in our VI population. The incredible range of differences across the low vision continuum, whether it's their eye condition, their level of acuity, the other visual factors, like light sensitivity that come into play. There's so much variety there. And they are experts at passing, and we all know those students who have this down to an incredible strategy. And they give that line, I'm fine, I got this. And we know that they don't know that they don't got this. And so working with those students and how we as professionals do our detective work to uncover those strategies that they're using, and then to assess by direct observation and direct instruction, figuring out what it is, what we need to be doing. What are the lessons I need to be planning? That we can connect with those students and set goals to help them take charge and find that self-confidence. So, in giving that background, I wanted to explain how I've come into this and why being able to lead the conference is such a privilege for me. We can start the PowerPoint. And the next slide. So I mentioned that I comment on the dissertation, and of the 120 pages that it is, this slide is kind of my biggest takeaway, because as I interviewed the students and I was able to focus on psychosocial, and students who have been through our project page where we provided a low-vision exam and optical devices, I was able to follow up with those students who were now young adults. And interviewed them, and the themes that came out from them, the comments that they described, it was a resigned willingness to use devices. And I always think devices, they also included other tools that were unique to their low vision. It separated them from the others. A resigned willingness to use those tools. They didn't love it, they didn't hate it. But they recognized the need for using it. That importance of image or self-presentation rules over the access. So that appearance, I want to -- I'm more concerned with my appearance of how this looks than having access. But they commented that that was harder in school years, and then as they moved into adulthood, that had gotten easier. They recognized a difference of how peers complete the same tasks, and this really caused some meaningful discussion, because the speed, the ease, and the stamina, that was the difference of how others are doing the same task. I'm slower at it, I work harder, and I have more limited stamina. And then they acknowledged. But, I feel a sense of responsibility and I am achieving my goals by using these tools. In that, I feel good. I feel positive about myself. I am proud of that. I remember the first student I interviewed, literally, because I say, I couldn't have scripted this. His comment was, what took you so long to call and ask about this? And they told stories. They reflected on their use. These comments -- we're going to show video, a panel from our first conference, actually, where young adults are talking about having low vision, getting services, use of tools. So I think those same comments, you're going to hear from those panelists as well. And so we can show that video now. 

>> Cynthia: Thank you. Having a panel has been a standard in each of our conferences, and I just -- hearing those comments like that, it just brings it home for I think what they're feeling. So, next slide. We had done five different models. We sent out a survey to all of the attendees and I want to touch on a little bit of the results that came back in from that. So 59% of our group, our repeat attendees, and we were really pleased to know that, because that spoke positively that our attendees are finding value in this. One of the questions was, had the amount of direct service changed since attending the conference and 53% noted that there was somewhat of an increase, where 9% said significant increase in their direct service. And that has been a real emphasis in the content of our conference of what does that direct instruction look like. And the attendees, a lot of comments in the feedback we got emphasized the energy in the program, because we were determined not just a set of presentations, where you're sitting in your chair, but getting up on your feet, and focus on the ECC, people who have attended past ones would remember where we called it the ECC walkabout, where you moved from station to station. Next slide. Responders. Those who completed the survey pointed out that increasing ECC instruction were assistive techs, 78% noted that that was seeing an increase in their instruction. And I was pleased on this that self-determination, because to me, that goes back to that psychosocial piece, 62% commented that they were doing more instruction in that. And then the other compensatory 41% and less from that. So, next slide. So this shows the themes that we had done from each year, and focused on the academic students, to start out with, and then more recently, we've been able to, like, dive deep into specific topics, like reading disabilities. Eve is going to talk about that in a little bit. And we're also able -- we have done several taking the conference on the road, to several different locations and that's been especially fun. We talk about how much we want to get back out there and do that. And I'm going to talk in a minute about our low-vision on the road student program. But first, in looking at those themes, the next slide asks, what was your biggest takeaway. We'd be curious to hear from the chat what do you remember having learned or what was pointed out, what was a presenter that stuck with you. So I don't know if any are coming in. 

>> Kate: Not yet, but I wanted to ask a clarifying question. Is this any conference, not just low vision? So sorry. So your question, a takeaway from a conference you attended. Any conference? 

>> Cynthia: Right, not just the ones that we took out on the road, but those whether on campus or we took to Region 8, Region 14. I think we'll go ahead and go to the next slide and see if some comments come in. So this low vision on the road student program, while we were able to pull together -- and thank you to Susan for making sure that we've got the media releases on this. But it's going to show students in these activities, and how this program gets started, a region request -- and we can go ahead and play the -- while I'm talking, it will show some of the activities that takes place on this. So it starts with a request from one of the regions, and we'll bring the program out. First step, we reserve the date with the ESC, and make sure that we've got the staff who know they're bringing students, and they spend the day with students, whether TBI or coms, and we work with ESC staff on developing the program. We can customize it to your region. The length of the day. How we're going to transport the students. In a couple of the regions, kids love animals, and we were able to g We'd go to the mall and the students will -- they're more willing when they've got a group around them who are using the same tools. We'd work on -- do a little session on eye anatomy. It's great fun to do it. Just let them socialize. Let them talk. So I wanted to give a little plug for that. What we hear from the students, that also feeds into the conference. If you haven't selected a theme, we'd be happy to hear your thoughts. So I'm going to turn it over to Lynne and see what she's got to share. 

>> Lynne: So we wanted to call y'all's attention to some of the forms and some of the tools that were presented throughout the years at these different low visions conferences. So the first -- this one is an observation form, it kind of gives you a process on what to do and why you're doing it. This was from the practical academics conference. I believe in 2016. So I don't want to show it to you because we don't have a lot of time, but I think it will be in the coffee hour folder that you'll get a link to later in the documentation. There's also a sample observation form that's filled out, so if you had any questions about how to do it or what it looks like when it's finished, that would be in that folder that you can access after the coffee hour. There's also a website that we created for the progressive medical eye conditions. That's still accessible to you guys. We wanted to show that to you guy. So here are some of the progressive eye diseases that we focused on, we touched on during that conference. And here are a list of resources under each one of these links. That you can access. And I think the link to this website will probably be in the chat soon. So now I believe Eva is going to talk about another one of our conferences, the struggling reader. 

>> Eva: Thank you, Lynne. While we're bringing some documents up. The real importance of the observation, when you're working with your low vision student one-on-one, there are so many things that you can discover in that one-on-one setting, but really being able to generalize that in the classroom and be able to use your tools and know what to use and when and why is really so important. And being able to go in and observe that happening, not just one-on-one, but in other environments outside in big gymnasium settings, maybe the cafeteria. So I think that observation form can give you some really, really good information about how your low vision student is using their vision in all of these settings. Well, one of the things that I have really enjoyed working with Cindy and the others on this low vision conference group is that we do have this opportunity to look at, you know, different areas of low vision that we feel like we want to take a little bit deeper look at. And one of them that was near and dear to my heart was when we looked at the low vision struggling reader. And we had the opportunity to meet with TEA, Sherry Lee met with his several times, and she was the reading specialist and dyslexic specialist at TEA. And we were able to really delve into this topic of struggling reader and dyslexia. We at this conference also had Dr. Rainey from Dell Medical Children's Eye Center come in and talk with the group from the medical aspect of things. When a patient comes in, a youngster comes in with low vision and is struggling to read. So from her point of view, and she's very knowledgeable about this area of dyslexia and the struggling reader. And so she was able to impart lots of good information. As did Shari Lee from TEA, who did an excellent presentation. You'll find in the resources that we have in this low vision packet for you, one of the handouts. You'll see the dyslexic handbook that they -- that's okay. You can leave it, Carrie, it's fine where it is. I'm just kind of giving you a little overview that Shari was able to provide us with rich information on dyslexia as well as this wonderful resource that you'll have in your resource packet -- it's a handbook that TEA has put out. So from all of that, meeting with those individuals and pulling together, you know, the practical stuff, Renee Ellis and I, we wanted to do a section called Now What. What are we going to do with this, all of this great information? So here's one of the documents that we came up with. This is sort of a rationale for looking at a process for determining the instructional support that maybe a student with low vision is struggling to read. And from that, we developed a flowchart that we'll show you in just a moment. And interesting enough, we wanted in the rationale to make a statement that, yes, low vision and dyslexia can coexist, and it does, and here are some resources and things that you can look at when you're trying to make that determination for a student. So we came up with a checklist for the struggling reader with low vision. And if we'll go ahead to the next document, you will see is the -- I think the checklist. I'm sorry, the process. That's it. You were right. I was wrong. The process for determining instructional support needed by the student with low vision. And we worked with Shari Lee on this, and it really goes along with what TEA guidelines are when you're looking at a student with dyslexia and screening for that. So if you've got a concern about your student, you've done all the accommodation and modifications that you know to do, and they've been implemented, and you've been observing that through all those observation forms that we saw. You're going in the classroom, you're seeing it there. But your student is exhibiting poor performance. So this is where you're going to want to get together with your -- the family. And we've come up with a checklist, we'll show you just in a second. And in that checklist, you're going to want to work with the reading specialist or teacher to fill that out. And then depending on the outcome of that, you're going to develop an action plan. And you're going to try some things. If you try the response to instruction, and you see adequate progress, you're fine to continue the conventional reading. At this point, if you're student is not making progress, you're going to refer to further testing. So let's look at that checklist quickly. Thank you, Carrie. All right. So, this is a checklist that you can -- it's very simple. We want some background information. And what I want to kind of hold it here, Carrie. Has the student been screened for dyslexia? Seventh if not having passed the sixth grade star. You may not know that students are typically screened or they are required to be screened at these various grade levels. And sometimes perhaps our low vision students may not be screened because they're already getting special ed services and the assumption is they don't need to be screened. But this is where you're going to make sure that oh, if they're not, let's look at that. Okay, let's go on. We put here some of the red flags or warning signs of possible dyslexia. One of them is family history. You can see, we kind of look at preschool and kindergarten and the typical things. We used a lot of the bullet points that TEA helped us with. And then first through fourth grade. Some of the things, avoids and dislikes reading. Poor reading comprehension. Of course, those reversals. You fill out the checklist. One you've done this, you're going to revisit it with the group, and if you'll go down to the bottom, I just want to point out that you could make the action steps, of what are we going to try next. Are we going to go right into some testing. But the note in red, referral for evaluation, can always be made if a disability is suspected. And we want to make sure we're consulting with our TDIs when we're doing any of that evaluation or testing. I think the last piece I had to share was the resources. And here it is. I just want you to know that there's a lot of great information. The dyslexic handbook that TEA has on their website is -- it's updated I think every couple of years. It's just got lots of good information, plus it has all of the information that you'll need. If you have questions about where is this documented in law that these things such as the kindergarten and first grade screening or the K-2 reading instruments, whatever. It gives you that language, and it gives you that resource of, you know, where do I turn to, you know, in law. So keep going, and that -- I think we gave you some other resources that you might want to -- other, and this is a great one. If you're a TDI and your district is saying, you know, our student is already under IDEA and getting services with a student with visual impairment, if they're questioning whether or not they could possibly have dyslexia or be tested for that, this is the language and the question from TEA. Can a student suspected of having dyslexia be referred for an evaluation under IDEA, and it is yes. And then we'll go on down. Lots of good resources there for you to look at, and I think -- that's pretty much what we came up with, the documents. And one of the things I'd like to say too is, use these. There's nothing magical about the documents we made. The checklist. If you find something is missing or you try it with your students and give us some feed back. If there's anything that you think would be helpful as an addition to that. And I think that was what came from that particular conference on struggling reader and dyslexia. And I think we're going to Carrie now to talk about some assistive technology. Thank you. 

>> Carrie: Yes. So, I'm going to kind of talk about what we did last year at the low vision coffee hour after we had planned a Bigelow vision conference on assistive tech, or accessing 21st century tech. And so it was actually kind of good timing, considering the situation we were thrown into very quickly. So, one thing that we were going to focus in that conference last year was how to provide the accessibility content to our low vision students. And so, when everything now became online, it was no longer just a supplement to their learning, the distance learning. It was the primary mode of teaching it became even more important. And so we have a couple different documents, handouts that were helpful during that time. I'm going to briefly show you those. So, the first one, this was the handout from last year's Coffee Hour, and there are some different tools that are commonly used with students. A lot of the districts turn to Google. They turn to Chromebooks. They turn to Google classroom. So we focused on the Google tools that are accessible and free for our students with low vision. We also have different resources on Chromebooks because that became a very inexpensive way to provide computers to students quickly. And so Chromebooks became more and more relevant in different school districts. There's a lot of different accessibility tools for low-vision students that are built into the Chromebooks, which is great. And then, of course, there is the Mac and iOS devices that have good accessibility features as we. So this document from last year kind of just went through some of those tools that are easy, inexpensive, and accessible for students to be able to access their learning, just like their peers do. One other handout was tips for posting accessible content. Because, again, it became really important for the teachers to not just post their things for these tools that are available for our low vision students. But it's also important how teachers post the content in their different learning management systems. So this other handout that is in the folder that you will get the link for, for today, was also part of that coffee hour last year and it has just different little tools or tips that you can provide to some of your classroom teachers that have your students with visual impairment or low vision. So that they can learn like, oh, here, if I make headings, that makes it easier. For my low vision students, it's good to use this size font. Also having the alt text for students when they're valuable images, when they need to know what those image are. This is a good resource that you can provide to your low-vision -- or to your teachers that have some of your low-vision students. So that is what we did last year in the coffee hour. And what we have coming up -- let me open this up real quick. What we have coming up this year is we are going to be putting on our full day long low vision conference that we were planning last year, and we've edited and adapted a little bit for this year. But there is going to be a little sneak peek at what you might get from the conference, just a small part, because there's a huge amount of thing that you can take away from the upcoming conference. I will provide the link to that registration and more information on it at the very end. We developed videos that were covered in the coffee hour last spring. So these are going to be highlighted in the upcoming low vision conference. I think there's ten of them maybe -- they're one minute long. They're very quick. Here's this tool. Here's how your student can use it. And so we're going to be sharing that at the upcoming conference. 

>> Kate: Carrie, are you meant to be sharing your screen? Because we're not seeing anything right now. 

>> Carrie: Oh, okay. Well, that's weird. I didn't stop sharing. Huh, okay. Let me see. What happened? There was really nothing on it yet, but that's okay. I don't know why it stopped sharing, though. Okay, here we go. Can you see it now? 

>> Kate: Yes. 

>> Carrie: Okay. I didn't really get to that yet, but thank you for letting me know. Because, yeah, I did not know it stopped sharing on its own. So, the low vision conference is going to be on April 30th. From 8:30 to 3:30. It is going to be virtual this year, and registration is open. So just to give you an idea, this is a little scenario. Amanda gets really anxious during Language Arts because they use a lot of online programs. Everybody is using online programs. Students are on computers a lot. Computers are great, but when you're on a computer all day, especially if you have low vision, that can create a lot of eyestrain. And so being online all the time creates -- causes her eyes to strain. So that is one of the struggles that she can dealing with. So, Lowell, can you go ahead and show the video? This is a one -minute tutorial on a tool that might be useful for Amanda. Okay, so, that's the high contrast extension on Google Chrome. They could be on my computer that has chrome. They can be on a Mac and use that extension. They can use that same extension on a PC computer. They can use it on a Chromebook as long as it's built in -- I'm sorry, it's an extension that they add to the Google Chrome browser. So that is a really nice tool that students with low vision can use. Here is an example of Amanda using that and downloading it. I'm going to demonstrate that real quick. She's going to add it when she's doing her reading assigns. So you've got the high contrast chrome extension. She's in Google classroom. She's going to her language arts assignment in the Google classroom. And she's going to an online program, which is called I Excel. It's a common website used in the school districts. And it's really hard, creates a lot of strain because she's been So she's going to go and add this extension in the Google Chrome web store. Searching for it. And then she's going to add it. We're going to add it, or search for it. And then high contrast extension. And then add it to that Google Chrome browser. Add to chrome. And now it's in her browser, and it's represented by a black and white circle on the top of her browser screen. With any other extensions she might have. And so now she can go back to her website, go to that circle, make it increased contrast or gray scale, invert the colors, or have the inverted gray scale, or yellow on black. And, again, she can set it as the default. You only have to install it as an extension the one time, and then that will just be from now on in the chrome browser. And so now Amanda has -- she has the inverted colors going on. It's less straining on her eye. She may have some fatigue towards the end of the day. A much better way than she could be before. And so this is just a little sneak peek at what are some of the things that we're going to go over in the upcoming low vision conference. There she is. Amanda's happy because it reduces her fatigue and eyestrain. I am going to quickly go to the link on how to register for the upcoming low vision conference. I will add this link. Again, it's April 30th. It's called low vision conference, 2021, accessing 21st century tech. What's applicable, available, and affordable. And we will also be having an exhibit hall within the conference, and the cost is fairly low. It is $20. For everybody. So it gives you a little agenda on that page, and you can receive credit, ACV, RAP, and aspect credits at the conference. And then I'm going to go ahead into the chat. I'm going to post that link now so you can know how to register. I think we've now come to the end where we can maybe do some Q&As. Cindy, do you want to take over the Q&As? 

>> Cynthia: I don't know if anything's come in the chat, but... I was thinking back on watching that panel at the beginning of this. And one of the comments that one of the panelists made said, I'm not going to trust -- when she was referencing her TDI, she said, not going to trust you or open up or try new things until you get to know me. It was, I know we know from case load analysis, there's never enough time in the day, but that getting into how that student with low vision is thinking and feeling is the time needed to build rapport. And then from there comes figuring out the -- in doing assessments, what's the direct instruction that that is -- we can then prioritize what those lessons will hold. So, that had come to mind. Thank you for highlighting some of the products. We are happy to -- if having seen those themes from the previous years -- share more of the products, the documents that came out of that, visit with any of the regions who wants more information on those specific topics that we had worked on. And look forward to being able to do on-the-road programs. I don't know if you guys have anything else to add. We've just got a couple minutes left. 

>> Lynne: Cindy, if a district or team wanted to do their own on-the-road, would you provide them with kind of a template of activities and instructions? 

>> Cynthia: I think part of what we have figured out in these five years is kind of that, a template, a recipe for what I think we've built in as signature sessions that kind of put a trademark on this conference. So, yeah, we're getting the information out there. That is definitely what we're about. 

>> Lynne: So if people wanted to do that, they would just contact you? Do you want to put your email in the chat? 

>> Cynthia: Sure. Happy to do that. And looking for Kate's instruction. 

>> Kate: I'm happy to put your email in there. 

>> Cynthia: Thank you. 

>> Kate: Well, thank you, everyone. I'm not seeing questions come in. There were a few questions throughout, but we were able to answer, like where to find some of the resources and some questions about the conference. But thank you. I didn't actually realize that we had the struggling reader information. So, I learned about some resources that we have today. So, thank you. I do want to encourage everyone, register for Low Vision Conference. We're doing it virtually this year. We are charging just $20 that's going to help us cover our accessibility costs. So we will have closed captioning and ASL for the full day. And so please share with colleagues. Please share with families. This is open to both professionals and to parents and families as well. Great information. I'm like a salesperson. It is just $20, only so we can cover some of those costs so that it's accessible to everyone. All right. So, let me give you the closing code. The code for today. Just this closing code. 040121. And I will put that in the chat as well. So, 040121. On Monday, we will have ECI, so Early Childhood Intervention nuts and bolts with Jackie Gregory. On April 8th, we'll be collaborating with families in the IEP process for deaf education research and family support. You can go to our coffee hour website, TSBVI.edu/coffeehour for upcoming registration information. So just one more time. You will get an evaluation that will be emailed to you from ESC Works. Please put that code in, which one more time is 040121. And you'll get that CEU or professional development certificate automatically when you complete that evaluation. In the evaluation, we do have a couple of boxes for you to add comments. One of the things that we're starting to look at as we are ending the year is we want to know people's thoughts and wishes for coffee hour for next school year. We are going to be making some decisions here shortly, and so we really want to hear from you about, you know, do you still want coffee hour, do you want it twice a week, do you want it once a week, do you want it monthly. Just let us know some of the things that you're thinking about, your feedback helps drive what we do here. Cheryl, the evaluation will be emailed to you. So whatever email you use to register today, or for today, you'll get the evaluation through that email. So, again, save that code. 040121. So you can enter that in. Well, thanks, everyone. We'll see you next week for Coffee Hour. Thank you, Cindy and Lynne and Carrie and Eva. Just gets me excited for our Low Vision Conference.