TRANSCRIPT - Guidance for Planning Behavior Intervention Ð 2/5/24

>>Emily: Hello. Emily Leeper and Lynne McAlister with our contact information. So we're glad you're joining us today. We'll be talking about, the title, Key Concepts of Behavior Guidance. And this is based on a document on the next slide. That came from TSB. That was a document intended for children who are Deafblind or who have other disabilities in addition to vision impairment. It's a guidance document for planning for behavior interventions. I'm repeating the title. What we're going to be talking about today is some of the theory behind the guidance tool, the planning tool. This information is also in the document. And it is available on the website under "free publications." So it's really not that difficult to find. Just takes a few little steps through the website. So we want to get started on the next slide. Behavior. So when we talk about behavior, think about behavior. A lot of what comes to mind are the negative and challenging things. This slide says "behavior." That looks pretty intimidating, like I don't want to deal with that. So we do want to talk about the challenging behaviors that you may experience with students and some proactive strategies that will be more addressed next week. But to talk about some of maybe the why, why those things are happening. So on the next slide. So if you happen to use a program called eSped or Frontline -- they're kind of the same thing. Everybody has, I know, a different program they use for documenting an IEP. But in the Functional Behavioral Assessment in this program, there are five reasons for behavior that are listed. And a lot of them seem very big, broad areas. Like escape and control. But really, when you think about real life -- on the next slide -- some of these things do fall into these other categories but they're more relatable about how we behave. Not just students. I like to tell my example of not wanting to get a medical test done and actually putting it off, putting it off until I got a history of noncompliance with a code in my chart. I didn't know that was a thing that existed. And so I was not trying to be noncompliant, really. My underlying reason was I was scared. I didn't want to know the result of that test. So it was easier to just not go get it done. So these are things I think to help make it more real of what our students might be experiencing. So on the next slide we have a video for you. Lynne's got some background information on that. 

>>Lynne: So we're going to see, you know, Emily just introduced like reasons why our kids might have behaviors. And sometimes they are the same reasons why we might have behaviors. And so we're going to look at Michael here. Michael is -- a short clip of him and he's doing his taxes. And so after we watch him, I want to ask you guys, really try to figure out -- like those two slides you just saw. Why is Michael acting this way? What is the underlying feeling that he has? Okay. Thank you. [Video] 

>>Oh! I'm not doing these freaking taxes! This is BS! That says go to this section but that's the wrong section! It says we're going to owe thousands of dollars. Where are we going to come up with that money? Ugh! 

>>Lynne: Look at poor Michael. So in the chat, can you guys tell me why do you think Michael is having behaviors? What is he feeling? If you had to name one emotion or a reason for this behavior, what would it be? 

>>Kaycee: This is Kaycee. Frustrated, fear, frustration, frustrated. Confusion also. 

>>Lynne: Nice. Okay. Yeah, I think -- 

>>Kaycee: Overwhelmed. 

>>Lynne: I think fear really sums up a lot of those. You know, frustration is because maybe he has this bottom line. He's afraid, right? He thinks he's going to have to, you know, give away a lot of money. He doesn't feel like he has the money. He doesn't really know what's going on. So Michael's afraid. Can you guys tell me what is he afraid of? 

>>Kaycee: Getting it wrong, Heather said. 

>>Lynne: Getting what wrong? The IRS. 

>>Kaycee: The unknown, also. Not having enough money. Not knowing what's going to happen. Owing money. Again, owing the money. Unknown. Not being able to pay them. 

>>Lynne: Right. So the underlying entity is why he's doing this whole thing is the IRS. Right? So, you know, he's afraid of the IRS. So let's describe to me the IRS. Like, I know what the IRS does but give me some adjectives that might describe the IRS. Ooh, scary. Kaycee, I know I'm stepping on your toes here. 

>>Kaycee: No. If you can see them, go for it, Lynne. You're good. Forceful. So they're powerful. Scary, powerful. Very good. Rule bound. Oh, I like that one. Maybe you could say rigid, even. Anything else? Are they easy to understand? No. I agree, Lisa. The IRS is confusing. And it's kind of like the IRS is kind of a -- it's like a monolith. To me it's like this thing. But everyone, you know, people don't know how to navigate it. Okay. So another thing about the IRS. Do you have a choice to interact with the IRS? Intimidating. That's good. No. So the IRS gives you no choice to interact with it. You're going to get a consequence, yes, if you choose not to interact with it. So really it's interact or have a consequence. And so, you know, summing it all up -- is that the end of the questions, Emily? I forget. Oh, what can the IRS do? So what can the IRS do to Michael here if, you know, he messes up? So this is really the generative fear. He's afraid of the IRS but under that, what are they going to do to him? Penalize. Penalize in what way? Take his money. Okay. Take his money. Jail him. Okay. So a lot of this is what you're saying is they're going to take things away from Michael. You know, up and including his freedom. Right? And so this could be really the underpinning of this fear is he's going to lose his stuff or his things. All the stuff he likes. So I want you guys to think of, for your kids in the classrooms, what word can I replace "IRS" with so that all the following words remain true? 

>>Emily: Let's go to the next slide and that link to kind of put this together. So these are some of the things that you were saying about the IRS and about the good things that can go away. Go ahead, Lynne. 

>>Lynne: Right. And so think about this, guys. What can you take away -- I want to take the word "IRS" away and what am I going to replace it with so that everything else remains true? And, remember, this is from the position of these kids in the classroom. Anyone have a guess? The government? This is from the perspective of our kids in the classroom. Michael's perspective is the government, yes. But we want to take the IRS away. Oh, we have principal. Do you think our kids know who the principal is? The teacher. All right. So I'm going to take the IRS away. Emily has replaced it with teacher. The teacher, to our kids, especially kids who have complex needs, can they be frustrating? Do the kids really know what is teacher is asking of them? Do they know why the teacher is asking them stuff? The teacher might be scary. Might the teacher be confusing? Teacher gives no choice. And the teacher can take away all of the good stuff from the kid. And so this isn't, you know, this is just meant to have you guys maybe think that the reasons that we behavior in our lives are often -- and I would say all the time -- the same reasons why our kids have behaviors in these other situations. They're not like they have behaviors because they're different kind of human. They have behaviors just like we have behaviors. They have the same feelings. It just might not come out of the same situation. Next slide. Thank you, Nathan. So Wayne Dyer has a whole little thing on YouTube, if you would like to watch it. It's pretty interesting. He says when you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change. A lot of it has to do with the words you use to describe things. And words invoke certain feelings. And so what we ask people now is to, you know, instead of using the word "behavior," consider the child is in distress. You know, Michael, when he's throwing papers all over the kitchen, he was in distress. If it were true, he would be in distress. So the kids are in distress as well. Even though sometimes we might think they don't need to be, they are. Okay, Nathan. And here's just another kind of thought about that. Two men looked out from prison bars. One saw the mud, the other saw the stars. Go ahead, Emily. 

>>Emily: Yeah, so the impact of sensory impairment on behavior can lead to that distress because the information that that student's receiving can be confusing. They may misunderstand what they're supposed to do or what the expectation is. They may become hypervigilant thinking that they aren't safe. That there's all this stuff happening around them that they don't really understand. It can also be a factor for being sensory defensive or selective regarding touch and auditory information. And on the next slide. So this is just more of the misunderstanding and misinformation. The information they're getting can be incomplete or distorted or just not -- doesn't make sense. And that could be information from other people and from the environment. And the other people, especially thinking about the teacher. And so these students with vision impairment, especially with complex needs, may feel that something is threatening. It may not be -- they may not be unsafe but to them that's what they're perceiving. And so they can be in a state of constant anxiety and maybe experiencing fear in a situation that we might not perceive as being threatening. And then also their communication attempts may be completely understood by a lot of people because of their complex needs. That may be an issue for them, which contributes to that feeling of anxiety and feeling like they don't have enough information or control. Next slide. Okay. So sometimes these students often have a lot of medical needs. They may have spent a lot of time in the hospital or have a lot of different procedures or surgeries that they have experienced that a particular situation may remind them of something that happened in the past. Not necessarily medical but something that happened in their lives that was difficult or traumatic for them. Again, as the adults, if you don't know the student very well, then you might not be able to recognize the impact of those experiences and how they impact that student today or in the moment. And then because of limited information to the environment, because of the sensory impairments, access to people. What they find interesting or what's motivating to them may be something that doesn't make sense to the adults. So they may be very, very interested in -- I'm trying to think of an example. Maybe Lynne, you know one. 

>>Lynne: Keys. 

>>Emily: Keys. That's the word I was looking for. They may be interested in keys. Keys are kind of cool. They feel interesting. They're different shapes. But as the adults that are working with that child or that student may feel like, you know, what is it with the keys? Like, let go of the keys. That's so boring. And, again, related to the sensory impairment, getting all the information about a concept can be challenging. So if you just get bits and pieces, then, again the expectation doesn't make sense. Next slide. This is one of my favorite cartoons. It's a bunch of people with blindfolds on touching various parts of an elephant. An elephant is a pretty big thing to get all the information about. And so they're all interpreting parts of the elephant as something different. One of them is touching the ear and calls it a fan. A tusk, another one touches a tusk and calls it a spear. One touching the trunk says it's a snake. The one touching the leg says it's a tree. The one touching the side of the elephant says it's a wall. And the one touching the tame says it's a rope. So each of them have a different concept or understanding of elephant, because they're just getting a part of the information. Next slide. These students need tactual input with limited access to vision and hearing or vision and the other issues they are experiencing may be limited mobility. That visual, when you're looking at the picture of the elephant with all those people touching different parts, it's immediately apparent that it is an elephant. You can see all of the parts of it at one time. And that information can be gathered at a distance. So you don't have to necessarily be right up close to it. But tactual information needs a lot of exploration, whether it's an object or a raised-line image. You can't get all that information just from touching one part of it if you're not that familiar with it. You need to explore the whole thing and that may take multiple opportunities to explore it. And then that requires that that object or that thing, that image, tactile image needs to be in front of you. That's that immediate proximity. There can be some limits to gaining information if you don't have those opportunities. Then the next slide. When you think about methods of learning and how we learn, you know, incidental learning, learning by accident, sometimes I think learning by accident, what does that mean? But, you know, just going through life you learn things as they happen to you, without somebody directly teaching you that. Trial and error is one that we've all experienced where it didn't work the first time. You keep trying. You figure it out. And that imitation is really, really important. And that's how a lot of us figure out what to do in a new situation. You don't know what's going on and you realize, oh, everybody is standing in line, you know, over on the right side of this counter. That's probably what I should do. All that is visual, primarily visual input. Especially incidental and imitation. And that direct teaching, you know, is what we do as teachers in school. You have a lesson and the lesson plan and that's what you teach. And it's intentional and very task specific. So, next slide. So these are just visuals about a typical learning for a child, typically-developing child. The majority of their learning is incidental. It just happens. Nobody's planned it. Their secondary, the imitation, trial and error. So the bottom of this triangle, the incidental learning or the base of it is very large. It's the majority of the triangle. With the direct learning being the tip of the triangle so it's a much smaller piece of this whole. But when you compare it -- next slide -- to learning for student with a sensory impairment, that direct teach is the majority because it needs to be hands on. It needs to be intentional. It is the way that those students are going to learn best. With that incidental learning being at the very, very smallest part. So that's this triangle flipped over with the direct being the most important part of learning, most successful way to learn. So, again thinking about the concept development and whether or not you provide -- the difference between accidental learning, incidental learning and direct teaching. We have this boy who has gone on a fishing trip. He's holding a fish in his hand. He knows the weight of it, how it smells, how it feels, what the scales are like on it. And probably later he's going to find out how it tastes. So that is an example of that accidental learning because he did it. Nobody specifically said this is a fish. It was part that natural process of his experience. And so with the next level of that concept development is this line drawing of a fish. Black and white. So that requires a different level of understanding as far as the abstractness of that image of the fish. And then, finally, the word "fish." So for some of our students, those first two parts are gone. They're just at the word "fish." So that concept of development and some intentional direct instruction is important for that to make sense for some of our students. The next slide. So this is an image that's just bringing home that point that you can have lots of information. For these students that have bits and pieces of information, it doesn't provide meaning to them unless we connect all the dots so that the stuff that they do know becomes something that they really understand. And, Lynne. 

>>Lynne: Okay. Here we're going to show -- not all of it because it's long. This lesson with Natalie. Natalie is deaf and blind. And she's a tactile communicator. And this is a teacher who is giving her a lesson on pant length. Go ahead, Nathan. [Video] 

>>These are called -- they stop here. Wait, we're not doing my legs yet. It goes down and it stops here. The name is three-quarter. Three-quarter. Yes. It goes and then it stops. It does not go down here. It stops here. Okay. And my pants -- I'm going to stand up to show you. You can sit. The name is capri. Capri pants. They go down and stop. So they hit you about right here. Yeah. Yep. That's right where they hit you. 

>>Where's that? 

>>Kind of mid-calf. She was reaching down. Yeah. They're not short like, they go on. They're not long all the way down my leg. No. They go down and stop here. Can you spell it yourself? I'm independent. I can spell. Okay. CAPRI. Yes. 

>>Lynne: Okay, Nathan. That's good. So Natalie is very interested in fashion and what people were wearing. But she was told, you know, that she can't Braille people. She can't come up and start feeling on people so that she knows what they're wearing. And so this is just an example of a structured concept lesson around fashion. You know, what she's interested in. So they go on and talk about long pants and shorts. Okay, Nathan. 

>>Compare. 

>>Lynne: No, we're finished with the video. I'm sorry. Yeah. I want to make sure we have enough time. So, you know, we talk about, when we talk about behavior in a little while, we're going to talk about feelings of safety. But touch is very, very much related to a kid's behavior and their past experience with touch. And I know you guys probably all have kids, you know, you've gotten their hands are kind of up here and they're not available. And they've learned that touch is scary. And so there's actual research on this. This is David Eagleman and he's going to talk about research on touch relaying information. 

>>The way that we understand and interpret the world has a lot to do with our physical bodies, how we feel about things drives the way that we think and that we behave. And this is known as embodied cognition. You can't think about thinking without understanding how the body plays a role in that. And, in fact, even our language is often built on top of our physical interactions with the world. So we say that was a rough event or that was a heavy movie. Or she has a warm personality. At the root of our language is the way that we touch and feel the world. When we're trying to decide something like is that person friendly. Or is that company competent and trustworthy? We're using the same brain networks that are involved in assessing warmth, texture, solidness and weight. The haptic machinery that we have is what helps us answer questions about personal warmth or friendliness. In our daily lives, touch serves as a high bandwidth channel to move information between people. It's a really powerful communication tool. So to give assurance, you lay a hand on somebody's forearm. Or to give kudos you slap somebody on the back. In an aggressive situation, people poke each other. And when people shake hands, they notice the firmness of each other's grip. And to show affection, people do things like move a hair out of the way or nuzzle up with someone's cheek. We communicate a lot more with touch than we are aware of. There was a study where they blindfolded people and asked them to communicate a social emotion just by touching the other person. So they were asked to communicate things like anger, fear, disgust, or love or gratitude or sympathy or happiness or sadness, just through touch. And people were blindfolded and figured there would be no way they would be able to communicate that but they did much better than they thought. 75% of the time the other person was able to understand the social emotion that was being communicated. And this just underscores how good we are at using this communication channel. 

>>Lynne: Okay, Nathan. [End of video] 

>>Lynne: So, you know, some of our students, their primary learning modality is through touch. And so, you know, this research shows that we can communicate certain emotions to another person through touch. And so I just -- we wanted to bring that up just so you would be aware when you interact with kids, you know, to try not to -- try to convey the emotions through your hands in a way that they will feel safe and not threatened. Emily, do you want to add anything to that? 

>>Emily: No. You did great, Lynne. 

>>Lynne: Okay. So the next slide. And this is just a fun example of how to teach your cat to color using hand over hand. It's hard to make this bigger. So this little girl, is she really teaching this cat anything? The cat is kind of like she's using the cat to color. And when we think about hand over hand that's kind of a strange thing that we would be using someone else's body part to do something but that's effectively what we do when we use hand over hand. Okay, Nathan. Thanks. 

>>Emily: Right. With that hand over hand instruction, you're just manipulating that person's body and, like Lynne said, they're not getting any instruction through that. They don't really even have to be present. So, you know, we have experienced students where that's happening and they're totally not engaged. So it's just happening to them. It doesn't encourage them to be present. 

>>Lynne: Right. At best you're going to get passivity. At worst you're going to get aggression. And so Barbara Miles talks about this. If you haven't read her talking the language of the hands to the hands -- Kaycee, maybe you can put it in the chat. It's a wonderful essay. Her points are, you know, to someone that's blind or visually impaired or deaf and blind, hands take the function of the eyes. And just like you would not touch someone's eyes to make them look at something, then you should not take someone's hands to make them touch something. Touch should be non-controlling. Thank you, Kaycee. You're focusing on shared attention. You're both looking with your hands at the same thing. And the student is watching you. So so much we expect these kids -- so for a typically-sighted kid, the teacher, we're trained as teachers, okay. You always do an example. Like you show them how to do something before you ask them to do it. And our kids don't have that avenue with their vision. And so then we just take their hands and make them do it. Like, where is the whole watching part? Where does that come in? That's when you would use hand under hand where you would do the task without asking the child to do anything. To just watch you first. And I think a lot of teachers miss that because the visual channel isn't an option. They can do the same thing through touch. Okay, Nathan. I don't think we're going to have time for this but we may come back. So here are the big takeaways, hand over hand versus hand under hand and kind of a thread through this whole theory is feelings of safety. And so for a lot of kids their hands are not safe things to share with other people. So, you know, I've had experience with kids that have learned that and, you know, you guys, you could put it in the chat if you also have. I think it's not uncommon, unfortunately. Okay. So there is a theory called the polyvagal theory and I know Kaycee is going to announce our Texas focus conference this year is on behavior. And so this theory, Mona Delahook wrote a book called Beyond Behavior, and it's in the handout. And she talks about this thing called neuroception. So she talks about neuroception being like the TSA guy who is constantly surveying the immediate environment for threat. And this is happening without you knowing it at all. And so like Jan van Dijk had a saying. There are things you know and then there are things you know. So you know how to do something like to cook -- make a sandwich, right? But you might not know why you're not going to go into that particular convenience store at this time of day. And you don't know why. You don't know why you know that. But you know it, right? So this is like the gut feeling. It's our senses are constantly scanning the environment to tell us if we're safe or not. So just like Emily was saying, with the impact of visual impairments, these kids aren't getting all the information from the environment. It's not clear. And so they may feel like they're under threat all the time. And we know they're not under threat but they don't know. And it's a subconscious thing. And so you can't kind of talk them out of it. So, you know, she talks about it's not really the behavior is the thing you should eliminate. It's what's the underlying cause and does the child feel safe. Okay, Nathan. So this theory, Dr. Porgis is going to be our speaker at Texas Focus, if you're interested in this. He talks about how safety is imperative. It's subconscious. So some behaviors these kids might have, they have no control over. They're not thinking about them. They are just reacting in a way that their brain is requiring them to, to make sure that they are safe. And all the feeling of being safe or threatened, it all comes through our senses. I mean, all the information we have about what's going on around us comes through our senses. And students with visual impairments have limited access to this. And they also might have, along with their visual impairment, they might have a distorted sensory system to go on top of all of this. So I'm thinking of kids with optic nerve hypoplasia that already have kind of like their whole body is awry at any given point. Okay. Next slide. So Dr. Porgis would talk about this in this way that just if someone is holding a hot pan of boiling water, you know, you wouldn't tell them to kind of get over it. You wouldn't say just get over it. It's fine. But when the fire alarm goes off, that's exactly what we tell kids whose nervous system might be treating that exactly as if they were holding a boiling pot of water. So, you know, it's not what comes into our system, it's what our nervous system does with that information. So, you know, these kid's nervous system is reacting in ways that we don't feel are upsetting at all but they are to the kid. And, you know, we have to respect that that's them. I mean, and that's a truth for them. Another idea to keep in your head is this concept of co-regulation. And so before we get to the point in our development that we can self-regulate, we start out by co-regulating. This is from infancy. This is the first thing we do. You know, the baby is screaming in the crib. You don't tell the baby suck it up. It's a tough world out there. You know, you pick up the baby and you use yourself to calm the baby down. This is called co-regulation. And we need to do this. It's a biological imperative. If you want to show the video, Nathan. [Video] 

>>Babies this young are extremely responsive to the emotions and the reactivity and the social interaction that they get from the world around them. This is something that we started studying 34 years ago when people didn't think that infants could engage in social interaction. In the still face experiment, what the mother did was she was sitting down and playing with her baby, who is about a year of age. And she gives a greeting to the baby. The baby gives a greeting back to her. This baby starts pointing at different places in the world. And the mother is trying to engage her and play with her. They're working to coordinate their emotions and their intentions, what they want to do in the world. And that's really what the baby is used to. And then we asked the mother to not respond to the baby. The baby very quickly picks up on this. And then she uses all of her abilities to try and get the mother back. She smiles at the mother. She points, because she's used to the mother looking where she points. The baby puts both hands in front of her and says, what's happening here? She makes that screechy sound at the mother, like come on, why aren't we doing this? Even in this two minutes, when they don't get the normal reaction, they react with negative emotions. They turn away. They feel the stress of it. They actually may lose control of their posture because of the stress that they're experiencing. [Baby crying] 

>>Okay. I'm here. And what are you doing? Oh, yes. Oh, what a big girl. 

>>It's a little like the good, the bad, and the ugly. The good is that normal stuff that goes on, that we all doll with our kids. The bad is when something bad happens but the infant can overcome it. After all, when you stop the still face, the mother and the baby start to play again. The ugly is when you don't give the child any chance to get back to the good. There's no reparation and they're stuck in that really ugly situation. [End of video] 

>>Lynne: I agree, Judy, that's a very hard to watch video clip, but it's pretty powerful. And so, you know, just think about our kids who don't have that visual back and forth with people. They might never have learned this co-regulation. And so, you know, how can you help someone get through their distress through touch? And, you know, keep in mind how much you communicate through touch. How much of your own emotional state. So, you know, when kids are having their behavior or they're in distress, you being in distress at the same time is not going to help this child calm. Do you know what I mean? They need an example of how to act. And I think this is on the next slide. 

>>Emily: Yeah, I was going to say I saw, just today, a really great example of a teacher who kept her voice and her being very calm, very even voice. Even when the student was beginning to get a little agitated. She kept herself that way. And the student quickly came back and was present with her again. So it is really important to think about your response to the student and who you represent or how you pair with the student is really, really important. I think that's on the next slide, actually. 

>>Lynne: Right. Yeah. And so we get to human presence. So we get to this what does your presence mean to people? Do you know? Do you ever think about this? We all have people that if we see them at the end of a long sidewalk, some people we want to walk faster so we can go up and meet them and greet them. And some people we want to sneak out into the right corridor. We're going to go the other way here. We're going to go the long way around so we don't have to interact with these people. And so everyone has an emotional signature that's kind of like independent for each person that we interact with, right? Have you ever evaluated what yours is coming in with these kids? If there's distress or whatever, do they see you as someone who is going to continue it, to make it worse? You know, tell them to stop it, whatever. Exactly what are you bringing to the table? So one of the biggest ways that we have found to change behavior is to change your own behavior. Because you can't change the behavior of someone else. You can affect the behavior of someone else through your behavior but the first thing, when we have kids that are in distress, is to say what am I doing? What am I doing to prolong it, to start it, to make it worse? Or does my presence mean it's going to be calming? Everything's okay. We're all safe. It's good. We always want to be around people that do that for us, much more than we want to be around people that, you know, all they want -- it's all demand all the time. This is from a book called Gentle Teaching. And it's from 1987 and it's an excellent book. It's still in print. And so this is a quote. So if the majority of our words and contacts are given for the purpose of instructing or correcting, then it is likely that human interaction will come to represent the onset of demand. And so, you know, I've had kids that I've had to write IEP goals for that they would let me sit next to them for X number of minutes. Not interact with them, not touch them, just be in their vicinity, their arm's reach, without them being aggressive. Because they have learned that humans are bad things. Stay away from them. I'm going to go over here and do the same thing I do all the time because it's safe and understandable and you are not. And so really what we challenge you to do is kind of do a little, you know, introspection, I guess, or whatever. You know, think about what you're bringing to the table when you're talking about this child and how they act. Okay. So just to remember, you know, human presence -- I'm not say you specifically, but just in general. These kids might have learned that human presence may signify demand and it may be confusing. The kid's interest may be quirky, and that goes into that lack of concepts. They only know the keys so the keys are really safe and cool because they know everything about them because they're afraid to do other things or no one's exposed them to other things. And sometimes people avoid these kids, avoid interacting with them because what they want to do or what they want to talk about is strange. And so and also this infrequent low-demand friendly hanging out. I know as teachers you have goals. You have, you know, a job to do. But do you ever spend five minutes at the beginning and at the end of every lesson and just kind of hang out with the kids? You know, you're not demanding anything from them. You don't really want to do anything. You just want to hang out like friends, right? And also to change from the task focus -- the task should not be the focus of interaction. You know, the relationship is the ultimate focus. And so can you make the task not be a barrier to the relationship. 

>>Emily: Right. I was just going to add that relationship focus is really important to building that trust with the student, help them feel safe so that maybe you could move into the task and that direct teaching piece. But setting it up so that you are a person that doesn't represent that demand and always do, do, do. I think I've seen that make a big difference with some students when you take that approach. 

>>Lynne: And so, you know, what do you want to signal by your presence. All these things on the left. Safety, security, predictability, fairness, fun. Or is it demands, control, fear, loss of freedom, helplessness, instability and confusion. All of us want to be the list on the left. And so the last slide is a video kind of to remind us having fun is very beneficial to learning and to doing things. Go ahead, Nathan.