TSBVI Coffee Hour
No Car Keys-No Problem: Independent travel when not driving
04-19-2021

>> Kaycee: Hello, everyone. We're going to wait just a couple of minutes to give everybody time to get into the room. While you're waiting, feel free to go ahead and set your chat. The drop down should say all panelists. Click on that and change it to "all panelists and attendees" and then everyone will be able to see your questions and comments in the chat. Again, welcome and we're just going to wait a couple of minutes to get started. You can go ahead and set your chat from "all panelists" to "all panelists and attendees." We'll wait just another minute. Hi, Liz from Bastrop. Thanks for joining us today. Hello, hello. Thank you, guys for coming today. San Diego and San Francisco. Got some California friends today. Thanks for coming. Michigan. Lubbock, Nebraska. It's like 75 here today. Very different from snowy Nebraska. Your cameras and microphone are automatically muted. You don't need to worry about that. Michigan, Arizona, Florida, Kentucky. Hello, everyone. It's 3:00 so I'll go ahead and get started with some announcements and then turn this over. If you have a question or a comment during the time that our presenters are speaking today, please put that in the chat box and, again, make sure your chat is set to "all panelists and attendees." Your microphones and cameras are automatically muted so you don't need to worry about that. The handout for today's session will be shared in the chat for immediate viewing and will also be available for viewing along with the recording of this and past Coffee Hour sessions shared through a link on our Coffee Hour page, tsbvi.edu/coffeehour. Once you're on the Coffee Hour page, you'll scroll down to under the list of sessions where it says visit the new TSBVI outreach Coffee Hour archive. That's a link that will take you to the recordings, handout, transcript, and chat information. To obtain your CEUs for today, you'll respond to the evaluation e-mailed to you from our registration website, escWorks. You'll enter the code given at the end of today's session and the CEU certificate will automatically generate upon completion of that evaluation. There is no opening code, only a closing code and it will be given at the end of today's presentation. We'll stop the presentation around 3:55 to give you your code and your announcements. I'm happy to introduce today's presenters to you, Dr. Cindy Bachofer and Cheryl Austin. 

>> Cindy: We're good to go? Thank you so much for being here today. Cheryl and I have been visiting this topic a lot this semester. It's kind of become our favorite hot new topic. My name is Cindy Bachofer and I'm the low vision consultant at TSBVI and I'm in that group of having -- I was born with low vision and have never been a driver. I meet the criteria to drive. I'm on the borderline of doing that but have chosen to not drive and become what the term now is active traveler. And so for about 20 years I've been doing this conversation either with students or with professionals and even family members to help them understand how this not being a driver is -- it can be a positive thing, and that's a lot of what Cheryl and I will talk about today. And I'm going to let Cheryl introduce herself. 

>> Cheryl: Thank you, Cindy. I almost feel like I could say ditto with a couple of exceptions. My name is Cheryl Austin. I am a teacher in our short-term programs here at TSBVI. Prior to this year I worked in our residential department here on campus. And much like Cindy I was also born with low vision and I have chosen not to drive as well. I have often lived in large cities with robust transportation systems and have really learned to enjoy that aspect of life but I think that's about it, so, Cindy, maybe we can get this show on the road. 

>> Cindy: Cheryl brought up a great point because both of us live in Austin and part of that decision is, yes, it's appealing to be in a larger city for the transportation options but I grew up and worked in Kansas into my mid 30s and lived in very small rural towns, medium-size towns, and then have lived in larger cities. And I think that being independent in how you manage your transportation is possible in all community sizes. It has to do with an attitude, a perspective of how you approach it, how you handle it. And I commented to Kaycee early on we are eager for more discussion and interaction, so please ask questions. Yes, we have PowerPoint slides but I think it coming from both Cheryl and I, who are active travelers and who regularly talk with students about this topic. We love it to be a little more discussion oriented and us giving information that you're feeling most pertinent in working with your students. 

>> Cheryl: I think, Cindy, just to add that we have had the opportunity in the past -- I guess now month and a half or so to share this topic with three distinct groups of students. Two high school groups and one middle school group and we've been so impressed with how interested they are in the topic and how engaged and how much more they want to learn about being active travelers. So this is exciting for us too. 

>> Cindy: I think what is true now, say in the last ten years than in the previous 100 where we are a country now that for 100 years the car, the vehicle has been the, wow, that's the ideal, the goal for transportation. And we are in a time now in the U.S. where there are more options and the younger generations are seeing this differently, and that's a little bit of what we're going to talk about because they're bringing that up. So we have three goals in this presentation of, again, I had said that positive attitude, developing the mindset to become that active traveler and developing that skill set. So we'll look at the attitude as well as skills to be able to access alternate modes of transportation safely and efficiently and towards the end we're going to hit a summary of, say, every attendee could list. What are at least five different modes of transportation. If you didn't have your car keys, how would you get around? You could list those off, there's multiple modes, so we want to talk about those options as well. And we have a poll. The first poll to come up, we want to ask what attendees are seeing. What's that biggest barrier to becoming an active traveler for your student? student. The options are awareness of transportation options as a barrier. Reliance on parent as their personal drivers. The if you think of a particular type of student's skill set in managing transportation is not quite there yet. Concerns of safety by either the parent or the student, and limited interest in being an active traveler at all. Just, no, I'm going to be a driver or no my mom or dad will drive me. And we are curious what of those five options, what our attendees would say. What are the primary barriers. So we'll give you a second just to respond to that. Are we getting results? 

>> Yeah, we've got 59 of 81 so far. I don't know how much longer you want to wait. It's been up for about a minute. 

>> I would say that's good. That's two-thirds? 

>> We've still got a couple rolling in so if you want me to leave it up for another second or two. 

>> Kaycee: This is Kaycee. Another barrier they're finding is they live in rural areas where public transportation is very limited. 

>> Cindy: I'll throw that in right now. There are always three options -- yes, this is coming from one person, I know, from my attitude on this. Three options even in rural areas. Walking and biking, which if you live 20 miles from any kind of community, I understand that that can be the challenge. Hiring, finding a driver, and hiring. Or setting up a swap system with family, friends, or neighbors to help you out with something. Larger communities have more options. So it looks like our leading one was the reliance on parents as your personal driver, and that is frequently what we've been hearing from our student groups. That's -- and that's understandable. Many grew up with parents doing that. And I understand for parents that's -- you're helping your child out but I think at some point we understand in any skill set that we help students build the skill to become more independent. And it's not just, okay at whatever age a student might move away from home, mom and dad aren't doing it anymore. How are you going to get around? How are you going to get to the things you want to do, the places you want to go. And just like O&M skills, just like washing the dishes. We start with small steps and move up. 

>> Cheryl: And I think that's one of our main objectives for this presentation is to get you all thinking about helping your students build those skills early on and thinking about them before they're thinking about them, and that's before their families might be thinking about them. 

>> Cindy: And some of these slides will lend themselves to that's an idea, that's an activity to start the conversation. To raise that student awareness and that sense of I want to get a handle on this. I want to be independent. Some of our students will not meet their safe visual criteria to drive, and that varies in every state. And some students, like Cheryl and I and other co-workers we have just, no, I'm going to use other modes of transportation and not the vehicle. And I kept hearing when I'm joining other webinars kind of related to this topic or driving and using a bioptic, I frequently heard the you lose all of your independence. You have no freedom if you're not a driver. And I have such a strong reaction to that, you know, I'm shouting at the computer. No! That's not true! I am independent. You're reframing that idea of being independent. So on this slide we're saying, yes, there is independence and it's thinking about it differently. Drivers have frustrations too, whether cost or stuck in traffic or other annoying dangerous drivers. Just as someone who is an active traveler has frustrations too. You're swapping one thing for another system. So in our conversations Cheryl and I have talked about that. I'm proud of this status of how I'm accessing transportation. I feel the environmentally-friendlier choice is a great thing. I know I am connected at ground level to my community. I'm seeing more of the businesses. I'm connecting more with other pedestrians on the street. I have labeled myself a city ambassador because often enough I'll get stopped by a driver who says, hey, do you know where this store is and can you give me directions? Helping out that way. More funds and less stress -- and we're going to get to that cost topic in a minute. One of the things we talk with our students about, we have few role models for building this skill set. Most of our students, 99% of who they know among their adults are going to be drivers. So finding out who do I learn about managing this transportation -- accessing mode. Who do I learn about it from? That's one of the things we really want students to be able to meet others who are active travelers. And I've talked about the other two. You can't be spontaneous. Not having a car means there's no convenience, and that's just not true. It's having plan A, B, and C for how I get around and doing critical thinking to get ready for my travel. So this comes from our in the driver's seat -- introduction to safe driving with low vision. Chuck Huss had prepared a document that looked at -- and this is probably very familiar stuff. The very early steps in becoming a traveler, in becoming a safe and efficient traveler. And part of what we do with students -- and this is from very young ages -- do they understand multi-step route instructions. Can they travel a planned route if it's written out? Can they follow those multiple steps and then even reverse the route or take an alternate route. Are they keeping head up and scanning and able to identify critical objects in their path and then thinking about how am I going to respond to that potential collision. As a walker, as a pedestrian. And then understanding multiple intersection types. All of that is part of being an active traveler. And this document is on our website. I just wanted to mention that you can access that whole topic. And one of our last student groups I made the comparison -- because I can remember being in high school. The school hallway versus the highway. I find a lot of comparisons there. You've got traffic moving in both directions. Sometimes there's multiple travel violations probably taking place in the school hallway. And I can remember back from my high school is how you're navigating that, how you're avoiding collisions. How you're thinking ahead and predicting how am I getting around this trash can in the hallway and then others who are traveling the opposite direction. So I think in a similar way if we do that comparison students already kind of are anticipating and responding to traffic patterns. This comes from Ike Presley. A longtime professional in our field, has retired but was very much focused on this driving topic because he was a bioptic driver. I identified these points that when I'm going to a new destination and I suspect calms are especially doing this with their students, planning ahead what's my route look like? How many traffic lights? I'm thinking if I'm on the bus, for example, and going to a new spot, then counting that out so that those are my landmarks. I'll call ahead and ask the business, can you tell me, does your building have a distinct color or does your sign have a distinct color? What's a landmark that's a block before your business that lets me know I'm getting close? Those kinds of -- I'm anticipating my route. And these are just some examples of questions that Ike had put in a short article that was helpful that we could share this with students. 

>> Cheryl: Cindy, I might add too, I'm not sure if you're going to mention this or not but in the recent conversation we had with our middle schoolers, we talked a little bit about the benefits of using Google street view and how much that has advanced our ability, you know, not only to make those kinds of inquiries that you just talked about, but to be able to look up an address and see what the building and the surrounding area look like. You know, just at the tip of your fingertips being able to do that research. There are times it's not 100% accurate, we know, but I found that to be incredibly helpful in researching things ahead of time, to feel more comfortable that if, for instance, I'm on the public bus I know what I'm looking for beyond just the name of a stop or, you know, general vicinity. 

>> Cindy: And that's that example of oh, my, isn't technology marvelous? What it has made possible. That smartphone in the palm of your hand, that it's my travel guide. And I think each of the bullets on this developing the active traveler skills, I see them as conversation starters with either the student or the student's family because it's that support of the family that I think is going to help get that student engaged in this process of I want to become more independent. In our driver's seat program we throw that out to the room on taking the active passenger challenge. We have done that workshop for ten years now and we hear from parents again and again. He's got his face in his phone screen. He's not looking out the window identifying landmarks, figuring out the turns. And so we challenge the group when they leave that workshop, okay, it's active passenger time. Your student, as the passenger, telling you this is our turn. Okay. The traffic light is green. We're turning on Murdoch Street. We've got three more blocks before we get to the H-E-B. They are directing the driver what to do. That is being an active traveler. I think setting up time to practice travel safely where the family is committed to this. We'll talk a little bit about hiring a driver and even by the age of, what, 15, 16, if not the parent doing all of the where the student is needing to go but the student being involved in setting that up. And so you start practicing that as a family. That conversation of working out the exchange rate for rides and even young adults I've talked to make the reference that, no, I'm not paying for that ride. My neighbor said it's no problem. It's a favor. I have no problem doing that for you. And I would caution anyone that accepting favors can easily become the becoming a burden just with very little notice. It becomes a problem waiting to happen by constantly just taking a favor and not exchanging -- setting up an exchange. Whether it's a service, you know, yard work, babysitting for getting a ride from, say, a neighbor or somebody else you set that up with. Getting a sense in your head of estimating the cost. I've heard the phrase it's either your time or your dime. How much am I paying for this, is the ride costing, or how much time is the ride going to cost? And Cheryl and I have talked about I know if I get a Lyft, a ride share rather than taking the bus. Because the bus is going to take longer but it's a very cheap cost where ride share, it's going to have a higher price tag but it's a direct door to door service. So you're always doing that balancing act of how am I paying? Am I paying with my time or my dime? Getting that first solo trip set up where when you think of a fourth-grader. Do parents let the fourth grader walk to a friend's house in the neighborhood or bike to the friend's house? Even if the parent was following half a block behind for the first three times to make sure that that student is safely getting to their friend's house. So small trips become bigger trips. And we know, I watch our Calms when they're teaching a student bus travel, they're following in the van to make sure that that student has it down, when they're getting off the bus, safely boarding, things like that. So it's a support system getting ready for those longer trips. And I think that financial cost, there's a sibling in the home that is a driver and the parents are supporting either car payment or gas money for that active traveler in a similar way can a parent and the student discuss funds for supporting my active travel. I think all of those are potential lessons. So one of the things we talk with students about that I think a lot of them are not aware of -- you know, they hear it from their parents of owning and operating a vehicle has a price tag on it. And if you -- and we're not going to take time to do the math -- but if you filled in each of those items and you did a monthly average, your car payment -- you know exactly what that is. You've probably got an estimate of what you budget for gas each month. How about maintenance, though? If the transmission goes out, that's going to have a really high price tag. If you have to get a headlight replaced, that's a lower price tag. So figuring out an average cost on monthly -- what you would set aside for maintenance on the car. So all of those, if you average it, I have from what the Internet says -- we can put that second poll up, Nathan, that asks what's the monthly charge -- or the price tag on owning and operating a vehicle? And we've got either $500 a month, $700 a month, or $900 a month. And we know, depending on the kind of vehicle you have, depending on how much driving you do, depending on your community size, this will vary but we're curious what attendees think. $500 a month, $700 a month or $900 a month. And we have the national average. This is one of the things I want students to be aware of. You know, we educate our students on if you're going to be renting an apartment or buying a home. There's a price tag on that and it's good to know that going in, getting prepared for that huge transition step. So in the same way if a student is considering owning and operating a vehicle, knowing that information. 

>> Kaycee: This is Kaycee. You mentioned ride share and someone commented another barrier that they have found for their students is the attitudes of the ride share drivers of service animals. 

>> Cindy: And I think there was even a lawsuit on that. I know that's getting sorted out. And that's unfortunate and I think that's one of those things that we become the change. We are part of making the positive change for contacting those ride share companies and lobbying for service animals as appropriate. I regretted hearing that lawsuit. Are we getting close, Nathan, on what our poll says? 

>> Yeah. I stopped it at the same amount we had last time. I'll share the results right now. 

>> Cheryl: They're in the middle, most of them. 

>> Cindy: Just over half said $700. The national average is $900 a month. And I gasped when I saw that. And I think a lot of people would say I'm closer to $700 a month. Still, I think that is a significant price tag for students to understand. And it must be worth it. The majority of those in the U.S. adults are drivers so that price tag on spontaneity and convenience. I think is another good topic for students to be visiting with them. So, an example of that -- I think a way to maybe hook a student on getting invested in this topic -- I gave two examples of an older student, 17-year-old the example they sit down with their parents, two buddies and say we want to go to this film festival in San Antonio. Here's the steps we've taken to identify how we're going to do this. Manage our transportation, be safe, have the back up plan, you know, contact with parents along the way to assure them, you know, the plan is working as we expected. Just sitting down and doing that conversation. Or a 13-year-old. Say a middle schooler who wants to go to a college campus and do a particular music workshop. How is the student going to get there independently? What would be that trip that your student would say I'd like to do that and I want to sit down with my parents and talk about what that would look like. So we've identified how is life different when you're not at the wheel. So these are the -- it's not just I'm sitting passively in the passenger seat. I have a responsibility with whoever my driver is. What is my role in planning the route of travel or in paying for the transportation? Again, I talked about the expense decision and then adjusting to if there has to be a change in the schedule that I can be flexible. Cheryl and I frequently comment we know if we're relying on the bus, I get to campus early before the meeting, not just hoping the bus is on time and gets me there right at the start of the meeting. It's just part of how I build my day. I know that I'm going to use that time on the bus either, you know, working on your computer or reading articles. But I'm making use of that travel time. And then if there's wait time, making good use of that as well. This is not an all-inclusive list but of those skills that students will need to become an efficient, safe, independent traveler using whether the GPS maps or a compass, being able to read a timetable. When I pull it up on my phone and when is the No. 3 coming, that I know how to read that timetable of the stop by map and what time should it get there. Using optical devices -- and I frequently -- a favorite way I can work with students on using their telescope to identify which bus is coming or even when I'm on the bus reading street signs or if we're walking to a route. Those communication skills. I sit in classrooms when students are planning a route and, you know, them calling Cap Metro, our bus system, ahead of time and identifying the pertinent information they need. Or calling the business. Are you on the east side or the west side of the street? And students knowing, do they know east from west when they're in downtown Austin? So a lot of this is building that skillset, practicing problem solving such as, okay, so we will mention bicycling in a little bit. If I get a flat, how am I going to get myself out of that situation? What's my plan B on transportation? And doing those scenarios with students where you're anticipating how to solve the problem. I most recently added this keeping a sense of humor. I commented to Cheryl, because we're getting back to more businesses open, having the vaccine being safer to be in the community, getting used to it doesn't always go perfectly. The bus was delayed and I sometimes throw a travel tantrum on the sidewalk because it's -- it can be frustrating. But that's part of the skill set and I know the situation will work out, that I'll be able to get where I need to be. 

>> Cheryl: I was going to say, Cindy, a couple of things. One, you know, when we talk about the sort of weighing the cost of time versus expense, I would throw a third one in there. I often weigh the time versus the expense versus the frustration factor. And I mean a number of things by that. There are times when, you know, I know the public bus is going to get me there but let's say it's raining or it's super hot or humid or I know I'm going to the grocery store and I'm going to be carrying four bags back with me and the potential that those could fall on the sidewalk and break or just that it's just heavy and a nuisance and I've had a long day. So I think, you know, each one of us in a number of different circumstances weigh all of those factors. I would also just like to highlight in your list of skills there the three things that come back to me time and time again. Having made the choice to be an active traveler, I think I didn't mention, like Cindy at the start, that I also would qualify to drive in Texas but I have chosen not to for a whole host of reasons. But I think back now on the many years that I've been an active traveler and how much building all of these skills and sort of trialing all these different forms of transportation have led me to really be a superior planner, problem solver, and time manager. If you build these skills in your students, planning ahead, solving problems when it doesn't go your way. And that time management, which I think we all see in different con texts, being a struggle for people. That's a huge piece of even planning a simple trip from home to work. You think of, you know, I plan it out the night before because I have to double check that the bus is still coming at the same time and that they didn't change the schedule. You know, I have to think about how long does it take me to walk from my house to the bus stop, and that might vary depending on how many things I'm carrying or the weather or what not. I also have to think, like Cindy said earlier, about, okay, if that bus does not show up when it says it's going to, what's my plan B to not miss the important things that are happening at work that day. And just all the implications for time. I'll give you a simple example. When I switched roles on the TSBVI campus, where my office is located is a significantly different spot from my regular bus stop. So I had it all timed down from my previous office to know that if I left five minutes before it said that bus would be at the stop, I was good to go. Well, now I'm on the other side of campus and if I don't give it at least seven to ten, I'm waiting at least half an hour for the next bus. That's just one example of some of those skills that I think really come from this kind of planning and skill building. 

>> Cindy: Very well said. I was putting down I think we can do a graphic on that. Time, cost, or frustration. There's a new slide coming for that. 

>> Cheryl: Factor number three to consider is frustration, for sure. 

>> Cindy: You're absolutely right. This next one, I have in quotes "I'm waiting for the Google car.." One of our attendees, actually a line a student said. Although those have not come as quickly as predicted, there's a lot more infrastructure issues for the U.S. that's happening. But this self-driving vehicle is part of our students' future. I joke with them that's one of the biggest reasons I think get good grades, get a good job so you can pay for your Google car. 

>> Cheryl: How interesting was it last week in talking to our middle school students? We gave them no thoughts ahead of time and when we went around the Zoom room initially and asked them about current transportation options and how they saw that changing in their future, I want to say two out of eight of them said they were looking forward to the self-driving car. Didn't we have that high a percentage? And I was kind of amazed by that, but it's true. 

>> Cindy: This comment came a good three years ago. It's their reality that technology and transportation options are changing. The I want to own a car is not necessarily 98% of, you know, the younger generation. They're making their choices differently. So we're going to switch to that last part where talking about pros and cons of these particular options. So we have six on the slide. Walking and biking, which I think of as personal travel. Rides, setting up rides from family or friends. Hiring a driver and, particularly, making sure there's a contract involved in it. Taxis, they are still out there. Ride share apps such as Uber or Lyft, and mass transit systems in larger systems, whether bus, train, and -- let's see, talking about the walking and biking. Cheryl, I'm trying to remember how we divided these up. 

>> Cheryl: I think I was going to take over for a couple and toss it back to you. Okay. So if we start talking by walking and bicycling first, this is an area where I feel like I have done a lot of this in my life. I mentioned earlier that I have lived in a lot of large cities that are very walkable. You know, Austin is one but I've also lived in Boston, San Francisco, Chicago, which have great public transportation systems but as a previous runner and someone who loves to walk, I will walk anywhere within a reasonable distance if the weather and what I need to carry allows. Cindy, I'll let you talk about biking in a minute because I think you have done some more biking than I have. We have our pros of these methods of transportation on the left-hand side of the slide and our possible cons on the right-hand side. I think if you asked anyone what they saw as the pros and cons of all of these areas of transportation, their lists would be different. And so these are just some of our thoughts. But, you know, some of the pros of walking or biking, which you have largely complete control over. You know, you have control over when your feet or your cycle gets started down the street. So that's freedom, not relying on others. As I was saying, you can set your own schedule. You can take a spontaneous trip, which if you're waiting for the public bus, you certainly cannot do. There is minimal cost. Some might say there's some cost to your feet over time or your muscles but I think that's also a benefit. You know, the exercise inherently in your day that comes out of using, you know, your own body and your bicycle to get where you need to go. And then this last one, Cindy, I love. The ability to outpace traffic. I have often used this argument. I find it sort of amusing, having come from other parts of the country. When you mention to someone here in Texas that you're going to walk three miles home from work, the expressions on people's faces. As most people here being drivers are kind of amazed. You're going to walk how far to get home? 

>> Cindy: After work? 

>> Cheryl: I see a couple of things to that. I find it to be tremendously relaxing and a way to come down from a day, but also there are times that I've timed it. I leave the school and I have exactly a three-mile walk. And if I time it just right, I will be turning the corner on to my street as the bus is pulling by. Either I outpace it or it catches up to me and I've gotten a good 45 minutes of exercise in the meantime. On the flip side, you know, walking and biking can be time consuming. There can be safety issues, depending on the environment you're in. We've already talked about the weather a little bit. I certainly don't walk my three miles when it is 110 and sunny or when it's pouring rain. There are some restrictions on certain areas. I think, you know, making sure that you have access to assistance if you have a breakdown. Not so much your feet but, Cindy, you mentioned having a flat tire, things like that. So there are definitely some drawbacks. Do you want to mention anything about biking, specifically? 

>> Cindy: I think I want to add in and this is the caveat, of course. This is appropriate to a student's abilities. 

>> Cheryl: Right. 

>> Cindy: Some students -- and when we do our driver's seat, driving is about more than vision. So much more than vision. It is about decision making, quick response, and the same is true with either of these. I think if a student cannot -- does not have the ability to safely operate a bike to manage intersections then they should not be a cyclist. That is not an appropriate mode of travel for them. 

>> Cheryl: Yeah. 

>> Cindy: Of course each of these is meaning that the student has demonstrated that we have, you know, the family or the professionals has worked with is the student capable of doing this safely? I agree with Cheryl on the I have solved a lot of either, you know, planned out presentations in my head or written articles in my head on walks. Or had a conversation that was going to be tough to do that evening, in my walk. And that freedom of I am handling my own movement here. I'm in charge of that. We've got ten minutes, Cheryl, so we've got to buzz through these. 

>> Cheryl: So our next option is rides from family and friends. I think y'all listed this as sort of the number one barrier, potentially, is reliance upon rides from family. But, you know, I think we also know that whatever forms of transportation we choose there are going to be times that we have and/or need rides from family and friends. So some of the pros here, you know, a feeling of safety that may not come with some other forms of transportation. An ability to negotiate schedules with people who you know and feel close to. Feeling familiar, spending time during travel. It can be very pleasant to share a ride with a good friend on a regular basis or with family members. Road trips are some of my favorite ways to get long distances. Benefit of assistance from others. If you're doing a lot of errands, it's nice to have a person along. If you're making a huge trip to the grocery store, not only for helping you shop but carrying the bags when you're done. And then, similarly, there's some space to store all of the things that you purchase. Not lugging those grocery bags on the bus. It certainly goes along with this and some of the reasons why when I make those kinds of trips I'm either, you know, taking a taxi or a ride share or having somebody go along for that help. On the flip side, some of the negatives could be that sense of potentially being a burden, like Cindy talked about earlier. That there are some limitations in terms of those favors that she talked about versus helping pay for transportation. This is one too. If you have established a regular ride with someone who you don't get along with, that's not going to be a pleasant part of your day so, you know, think about that ahead of time or if something goes awry with the relationship, that might not be the right ride situation in the future. There's certainly compromise when there is more than one person involved in making the plans. And then, you know, if your driver, in that case a family member or friend has to make some last-minute changes in their plan. Canceling, changing the time saying whatever the case is. That can be frustrating on your end as well because you have kind of already set that up, relying on the fact you think they're going to help you. 

>> Cindy: And we've got that what is that bartering system and helping students to recognize whether it's yard work, kid care, extra dishes. It's I am swapping out a service for a ride. It's not always just I'm going to pay for lunch or pay for a coffee, there are other -- we have a student, we were teasing her, that she's become quite a macaroon maker. I'm like, yeah, I know a couple of people who are give me a dozen macaroons and you have transportation for an hour of driving. So on the hired driver, I have been able to do this a couple of times in previous work situations. I think the biggest challenge is where do you find people who would be interested in being hired as a driver? And I think a lot of we're used to saying older adults who are retired and would like that extra pocket money. A stay at home parent who might have a more flexible schedule. College students who's not necessarily a 9:00 to 5:00 commitment. And it's advertising, asking everybody you know do you know of somebody who would consider being a hired driver? And I think it literally means interviewing -- I remember interviewing a couple of candidates and one driver I had, when traffic was difficult or the directions were confusing, he shut down. He did not do well. That was not a good driver -- hired driver match. And I think the importance of literally, whether it's handwritten or on a computer, setting up a contract agreeing on the rate, agreeing on things like the minimum time to request a ride, what hours of the day are open for a ride, the condition that the vehicle should be in. All of that is thinking about. If you have a 16-year-old student, maybe they're not hiring a driver this year but if they're 19 or 20, what would that situation look like? So taxi. 

>> Cheryl: Okay. The taxi used to be a big option for me, particularly when I lived in Boston and Chicago. You know, some of the pros of using a taxi, depending on the environment you're in, it can possibly be available beyond business hours and in some cases like the cities I mentioned 24/7 might be an option for a taxi. There are sometimes opportunities to get discount fares or travel vouchers, particularly if you are a frequent user of taxis. You have some freedom and choice in terms of the company that you choose and sometimes even in the driver that you choose. If you have a good experience with a driver, sometimes they will give you a personal card with some information and you can actually get that exact driver back. This one I absolutely have appreciated at sometimes in life. You are not obligated to have small talk with that driver. It is not your mother. It is not your best friend. It is not your co-worker. You know, they may want to talk to you but you can certainly politely decline or engage yourself in reading or something else that gives the message that you don't want to have that conversation. And then, honestly, yeah, I have had some great experience with taxi drivers, especially when I was new in a city, who really pointed out some cool things or took me particular ways that I really got to know that city a little bit. As well as other forms of transportation, there are some drawbacks. There can be delays in arrival of service, just like other forms of public transportation. Higher cost. Yes, definitely, particularly if there's not a base or a standard fee for a particular route. You know, issues of safety and honesty. Those are definitely out there and so teaching students those aspects of safety if they're going to be taxi users. Again, that route planning in terms of knowing where you should expect to be going. You know, as a young woman in a taxi in a big city, that was really important to me was to know this is what I expect when I say I want to go from O'Hare Airport to my apartment. And if I don't recognize where I'm going, that's concerning. Drivers can be unfamiliar with areas or addresses. Again, this is where that planning comes into play when the driver turns to you and says which way do you want me to go? You should have an answer, for sure. Then again, high turnover in terms of drivers. You might have the ability to request a certain one but you might get the luck of the draw. 

>> Cindy: And taking the bus we talked about a fair bit. I think I miss my bus community. When you're commuting you see either the same cars on the road or I see the same people. And then there's the drawbacks. Sometimes people on the bus, just like people at the mall, can be really annoying but we still go to the mall. And I think any form of transportation, as long as we're practicing safety, it's a mode to consider. And we didn't have the ride share one up here that I want to make a quick comment on. It took me a while to adjust in my brain for -- so I'm going to get in a stranger's car. But there are safety factors built into that and I use my own safety factor of I identify the driver. I make sure that it's the name that's on my phone screen before I get in that vehicle. So I think that can be parents thinking that's not going to be safe. But I would encourage parents testing it out with their student. Taxis. You know, you're dependent on the safety of the driver same as you are with accepting a ride from a neighbor or even in a ride share. But the last one we want to quickly visit, commercial bus lines is a consideration. Very affordable. I use the example of I was able to do a mega bus ride from Atlanta, Georgia to Cincinnati, Ohio for $10 on a gorgeous June day where I pay the extra $3 for the upper tier on the bus, the front window. So second level up -- it was a beautiful ride. Only one stop. If mega bus is something that's available in your community, it can be very positive. I want to quickly mention the new edition of finding wheels is chock full of activities with students, lesson ideas, conversation starters. Dr. Anne Corn and penny Rosenblum is available through our TSBVI publication. And we have one last poll we're curious on. Which mode of transportation are you most likely to focus on with your students of those that we listed and talked about. So we've got walking and biking, ride from family or friends, taxi, hired driver, ride share, such as Uber or Lyft, and public transportation. We're curious of attendees which one feels like, yeah, I can start some lessons right away on that topic. And so we'll have Cheryl and my contact information at the end. We're waiting for the poll results to come in and I think those three areas, talking about positive attitude and that the positive aspects of being an active traveler, developing the skill set, and identifying the modes of transportation. What are the options and it's both where the student is now, their community, and what they want to target as a community size that they might move to. 

>> Cheryl: Right. I think with so many of the areas we talk about with our students it's never too early to start. 

>> Cindy: Elementary. 

>> Cheryl: Public transportation is the winner, Cindy. 

>> Cindy: Yeah. And ride share was the one after that. So it's that example of technology is allowing some really positive changes and getting used to that, educating ourselves on how to use it safely is really important. We appreciate your being here and would love to have further conversations. Cheryl and I are open for contact on this. Thank you. 

>> Cheryl: Absolutely. Thank you, all. 

>> Kaycee: Thanks so much, Cindy and Cheryl. So much positive feedback coming in on the chat. On April 22 we have an update on the progression of tactile learning development checklist with Debra Sewell, Ann Adkins, Sara Kitchen, and Scott. We have a special session that will be held at 10:00 a.m. instead of 3:00 p.m. on Monday and the reason for that is CVI Scotland is coming back, optimizing support for children with CVI with Professor Gordon Dutton and Helen St. Claire Tracy. There will be a Q&A portion within that session and I will drop the link in the chat for just a moment for you to submit questions about CVI for them to answer during that session. Check out our Coffee Hour website, tsbvi.edu/coffeehour for our upcoming registration information. Again, to obtain your CEUs for today you'll respond to the evaluation that will be e-mailed to you from our registration website, escWorks. Also, the handouts and recordings from this and past sessions are available through a link on our Coffee Hour page, tsbvi.edu/coffeehour. Once you're on that page, you'll scroll down to under the list of sessions where it says visit the new visit the new TSBVI Coffee Hour archives. That is a link that will take you to the recordings, handouts, transcript, and chat information. On the evaluation you receive from escWorks this evening, there are two boxes. No. 10 and 11 say additional comments you would like to share with the presenters and with the event planning committee, please let us know in those boxes if the times and days we offer Coffee Hour are working for your schedule or if you have other suggestions, particularly thinking about next school year. We're doing that planning right now and we'll be making decisions the next few weeks and your feedback is super important to us. We would like to hear your ideas on topics for future Coffee Hours. Thank you all so much for coming. Thanks, Cindy and Cheryl again.