TRANSCRIPT - Low Vision Tech with Carrie Farraje and Cindy Bachofer 

>>Donna: Good afternoon on this Thursday afternoon to everyone. Welcome to TSBBI Outreach Tech T time. This week we have. Harry Farage and Cynthia send Cindy back if I can talk today. Talking to us about. Love vision. I'm so excited for their session. So remember our goal is to build our community of practice for technology that will allow us to support each other when we're teaching in the spirit of that goal, T time is interactive and you're encouraged to converse with each other in chat. And put any questions for our panelists in the Q&A. So without further ado, low vision tech with Cindy and Carrie.

>>Carrie: Okay, let me share my screen. Sorry, give me a moment. Alright, there we go. All right, so welcome to Tool Use, from uncertainty to confidence. And I am Carrie Farage. I'm 1 of the AT consultants in. Outreach and Donna is the other one, but I'm particularly work with low vision students. And then we have Cindy.

>>Cindy: I'm Cindy Bockover. I'm the low vision consultant at TSBBI and Kerry and I like visiting about this topic. So.

>>Carrie: Yeah, and like Donna mentioned, we really wanna invite discussion, today on this. We're really gonna talk a lot about the psychosocial, aspect of tools and, and students and trying to help them to gain that confidence. So please put any tips you have, any experiences you have, any discussion that you want to share, in the QA. So that we can actually have some interaction going on. And, That would be great. Alright. So today, our outline of what we're going to be talking about, first we're going to talk about the consideration of students who are primarily print users and who strive to pass. Cindy, what do you mean by strive to pass? Did you,

>>Cindy: That I think a phrase we have in the field that I want to pass as typically cited just like my peers don't single me out, leave me alone, you know, I don't want to have that pull out time. I wanna be like my peers and we know. You know adolescence middle school especially students just have that heightened senseitivity of I want to be like everybody else. And that I'm striving to pass like them even though my vision is different than theirs. Than my peers.

>>Carrie: Yeah. And they don't wanna look different, especially your middle school and going through up to high school, age students. So we're also gonna talk about the core principles, tool use and sense of ownership, you know, trying to help those students have that ownership that they need whatever tools they use, whether it be low tech, mid tech, high tech, whatever it is that's helps them, to access their world, their education, their, their everything around them. So trying to give them that ownership so that they. Can actually access everything. Welcome.

>>Cindy: And I think we have a sense that it's. We know it's a progression of how students absorb this idea. You know, it just doesn't happen, but I think kind of what Carrie and I will talk about through this is it's those conversations that we have kind of in the middle of a lesson at the end of a lesson where we're helping the student to to verbalize those feelings about, you know, and what do we mean by own ownership? It's, you know, you think of the tools that any of us use. Where is my level of confidence in using that?

>>Carrie: And then we're gonna discuss some strategies, to develop that confidence and that pride as a tool user. We also have some resources that we're going to share. I will post the Google site with some of our handouts and resources throughout this, that I forgot to mention at the beginning. And then also the ever changing terrain of tool use across settings and tests. So first of all, tools are constantly changing on our regular basis and a tool for a student might be something that works one day for him or her and then the next day it may not meet their needs anymore. So, and then also across different settings, maybe for math, it's different than what it is for English or what it is that they need for their art class. There it's just constantly changing. So how to. Help them adapt to all the different environments that they need access to.

>>Cindy: And when as we commented, you know, the target population that we're focusing on in this session is those who use print to some degree. And I I think each of these points that that student who has low vision. Figuring out, you know, not fully sighted and not completely blind. I have some level of vision different than any other, you know, it's so unique to each of our students with low vision. And I think a number of these pl It's the unspoken. I remember, you know, growing up as that low vision kid and it was those ideas in the back of your head that you just Didn't know how to phrase it. I didn't have the vocabulary at that time. And again, I think it's that. Building the rapport with the students so that you can open up these topics and the student can start to verbalize those feelings. I really think that mixed emotions because the Since they get at home. You know if a parent is has great, great overprotectiveness of their child with low vision. But at school, the teachers, you know, This this student functions really well. I have high expectations. I think how the student navigates. Those different identities that sometimes get assigned to them. And the student figuring out, you know, who am I in this gamut. Of from fully sighted to completely blind. The pressure to keep up if you're always the last one to finish, you know, class go ahead and look through pages 2 and 3 and we'll talk about that and you're always the last one to finish or on the playground having trouble finding your friends out there in the bright sunlight. Finding friends in the cafeteria that I'm always feeling like I'm. Having to catch up. I'm not quite on the same pace as others because with my vision I'm processing or translating things differently. Personal sense of I am assessing my abilities. In comparison to others. It's just simply what we do as social creatures. And then concern for the future. You know, how am I gonna handle if I'm thinking about college, all of the high demands on reading. Or in the workplace, how am I gonna handle the copier machine? Cause I've been in my mom's office and that thing is really complicated. To use so we anticipating those settings and I think all of that is kind of going on in the back of mind for these students. Next slide.

>>Carrie: There we go.

>>Cindy: So that you'll read comment on the passing and sometimes, you know, I'm camouflaging myself as a typically sighted. Good. And I want to look at You know, we have to be sensitive to where the student is emotionally on this topic. The tools I use, how open I am about it. And I also think there is a responsibility. For the student to understand because they have functional vision there is the responsibility to use it. And we know the continuum of their tasks you know the prints too small for me to read and even with my magnifier or if I, you know, take a picture of it on my phone. It's just, it's too tiny or it's too complex. Something's too far away, too small for me to identify. Ask somebody that you know that's not a unfortunate thing we rely on people. But from I rely on others to do it, I do it with some support or I'm independent in this task. I want our students to understand that as strategies. Rather than the avoidance. You know, I rely on others completely to do tasks for me and I've been in classrooms where students No. You know, the teacher should be. Have everything blown up to. Too often we see 30, 28.5, 36 point font. Doesn't let the student be efficient. Simply not participating is another strategy. I choose to go without the information. Or blaming others they didn't do that for me where we talk about our students taking charge where they are in command of I am at modifying or sorry, adapting my assignments. I'm enlarging the print to the efficient level for me to read it on my screen. And then sometimes just delaying the task to later. So if we're looking at when we observe students in their settings. How are they managing visual tasks? Are they building a skill set to become more independent in managing and you know school is an incredibly intense visual demand. I've heard a statistic that in no other time in your life will you be expected to read as constantly as in the school setting.

>>Carrie: Yeah.

>>Cindy: So instead of camouflage strategies, our goal to help students develop strategies that let them be efficient and successful.

>>Carrie: Yeah, I have a comment on one of, one of these strategies to where I remember a college student couple of years back that was on one of our low vision conference panels had talked about how she was like a non participant for so many years and different things and she could have done so much better in high school had she, you know, not had, the anxiety about using devices and it wasn't until she was in college and she started to, you know, not do very well in our college classes where she was like, okay, I actually need to figure this out. And start using what I need to access. So, I think that's really important. And then Cindy, we add another comment from in the chat, about the pressure to keep up is spot on, you know, the pressure for the students. And of course, the non using not wanting to use devices because they don't want to be different from their peer.

>>Cindy: You know, I can, my personal experience, I didn't realize how much. Internalized tension I was carrying with you know I grew up in town, hadn't met another kid with low vision, wasn't aware of one in my school setting. And didn't know that this was legitimate, that I was feeling a sense of pressure. And I think it's that opening up the conversations with our students. We don't have a counseling background, but we can have the conversations too. What are you feeling? What are you thinking? You know, okay, what could be some strategies? How, can we make that situation better? I think is part of what we're doing with these students with low vision.

>>Carrie: I was definitely. Alright, what is different now versus then? So, one big thing is our student tech awareness and skills is it's, higher, right? Our kids use tech on a regular basis in their social lives. You know, they've got their social media accounts of many that they keep up with on a regular basis, you know, screen time that can track all of their time that they spend on their devices on a regular basis. It's the centerpiece to their world. You know, iPhones have been around since a lot of my kids were infants, you know, my kids are now almost graduating high school. So it's been around for a long time. Youth curiosity to explore and then share gadget info. Sydney, do you want to elaborate on that at all? I'm not.

>>Cindy: I just, you know, you know, if you have teenagers or, you know, 10 year olds, 8 year olds in your home. They, this is. Natural to them. They have not known a world without screens and so it's just part of the conversation you know they're cheering tips and oh did you know about this new app and oh look what you can do in the app it's just It's baseline. Topics I think in their conversations. If I'm around my nieces and nephews, that language is just supernatural to them where for me you know and I'm like hey explain that.

>>Carrie: Yeah. Yeah, my daughter last night, she's in a photography class and she had to go take pictures and she's like, yeah, we're doing this thing and it was like some app and I was like, I don't even know what you're talking about.

>>Cindy: Yeah.

>>Carrie: Okay, I feel like I'm getting out of date. A little bit here with some things. Well, that goes back to the terrain ever changing landscape and helping our students. How do we keep up? You know, what are the tips we use to keep ourselves abreast of new information?

>>Carrie: Yeah, definitely higher tech access in the classroom for pretty much, all students, right? A lot of students are using Chromebooks or just different devices regularly in their classroom. But for our low vision students, you know, there's, Mac connect distance viewers, their CCTV, like there's the Jupiter, there's so many, so many different tools that they can use. The Join Me app. Near the textbooks are all online. I don't I haven't seen a textbook for my girls and probably 8 years. So Google Classroom, all the different learning management systems, Blackboard Schoology, Canvas, everything's online for these kids these days. So it's just a very different world, than it was before. And the next being and core curriculum and the importance so you know expectation for visual access across all settings. For their personal lines, they use the tech. But do they use them to access what they need to in school? Do they access for their independent living skills. Like transportation or getting on a bus or just so many different ECC areas that they need to use tools for as well and it's not always high tech. When I say tools we're talking about all the whole gamut of tools.

>>Cindy: And I, when I'm working with a student, I, you know, I flat out, you know, in the classroom. Using your tools to look at a math equation? Yeah, not my biggest motivator. But, you know, hanging out downtown with friends and you hear some noise across the street, I want to know what's happening over there. So if I'm building my telescope skills in that instance. That's way more motivating and I think ECC is a real hook. For finding those instances where it's beyond the school setting.

>>Carrie: Yeah, we did a little conference. Or a little student program once and they were using the optical devices and we were at lunch and they were curious about the different cars that were in the parking lot and all of a sudden they're using their optical devices to see what the different cars were in the parking lot. That was on their own. Was their self interest? They were like, what car is that? You know, is it a BMW or whatever? It was so, I think that's kind of what you're talking about.

>>Cindy: You know, they brought, you know, themselves self initiated. And you know. They were not regular telescope users, but this was something that caught their attention.

>>Carrie: Yep. So the 5 starting principles, start where you are, have your students start where they are. What is something that they're interested in? What's a test that is appealing to them? Don't start with something that they maybe you AP US history is the hardest class for that. Maybe don't start in there start in something that they really enjoy doing. To get going get set up lighting positioning, stabilizing their tool, lighting is so important for a low vision students and they need to be able to recognize that what kind of lighting that they need. Or is it the beginning of the day or the end of the day? Do they have fatigue? Do they need a, if they're using a computer, do they need it to be inverted, white on black or different things like that.

>>Cindy: And the picture that came in my head, Kerry, is we know how the students. Scrunch into the laptop screen and their neck and their shoulders are just cranked in because There they haven't set the screen up.

>>Carrie: Yeah.

>>Cindy: To be. You know, where they can back up a little bit, let the eyes be more relaxed or slant, you know, put the lift the laptop up. So that their ergonomic positioning is more comfortable and lets them sustain the task. For a longer time period. I just so many of the students, they crank in and you're gonna fatigue is gonna set in real quickly. With that.

>>Carrie: Yep. And then use the simplest solution, right? It doesn't have to be the fanciest, most expensive tool. You know it could be For me personally, I if I forget my glasses, and they have the menus at a restaurant on your phone. I have a hard time with that. I'd actually prefer if I had like my glasses or a magnifier to like use that you know and I just have traditional I don't I just have old age. She is going on. But you know, I would prefer simple thing. And for some students, they might prefer the simple thing too.

>>Cindy: Okay.

>>Carrie: And then practice practice practice practice time daily built in to make it a habit for them. And then try to help them to be accessibility proud and and the students are going from over the years I've learned that the students are going to go through so many different tools that may work for a short time and then they may not work later and then they may be going through different stages to where they really find what works best for them. And so, if they are constantly changing, but what they choose is working for them, then go with that, you know, for that moment and help them to be proud like to use their devices, which is so hard. But Anyway, hopefully that's our goal is to help these low vision students feel more comfortable with their with their tools. Of course, the game changer is your smartphone and tablets, you know, it's more socially acceptable. It's got built-in access for a lot of things like a magnifier, or you can zoom up the screen, you know, voice over for some that want to use voiceover that need to have that audio. They're more motivated to use it. some say it's the only thing I use. There are some downsides though. Yeah, go ahead, Sydney.

>>Cindy: Okay. And that's the phrase that got me and I think we're moving into the next section in our slides. Is if it's the only tool I think you're limiting. What you can do if you only have one tool and the next slide we're not gonna show it but that's okay but you I think everybody on the in this session could fill it in.

>>Carrie: Oh, sorry, my then.

>>Cindy: When is the phone? And I use my phone sometimes. It is a tool. Absolutely. Students helped me to recognize that because I kind of resist. I think there are better visual access tools and they point out, you know, I can invert the colors on this or I always have it with me. Okay, fair point. But there are instances where the phone is not the ideal tool and to say it's the only thing I use if if One of those situation presents and we go to the next slide that. You know, we now carry power banks that if your batteries gotten drained for whatever reason you were doing high demand tasks, you can recharge it pretty quickly. But it then for that period it's not available to you. On a lot of things, you know, if I am taking a picture in a store, and you can quickly over pixelate or the image you keep expanding expanding and it just moves into that blur. Glare outside I'm frequently just okay where's my closest shade so I can slant my phone screen to where I can read it if I'm using that as my tool. Research, you know, we're still finding out. Lots of screen time. We do not know the impact, the blue blocking lenses that can help if you really You know, students have a lot of computer time or a lot of time on the iPad. You wanna protect the eyes? And then no phone zone, whether that's at school or at work. Because no matter the yes, but this is my visual access tool. There is going to be a perception that you're messing around on your phone instead of paying attention in class. Or being on the job. And I want students to know. That you know if you're trying to play both sides of the coin I don't want to be an exception, but I want to be an exception here. To where I can use my phone when I want to as the visual access tool. I just, it gets kind of complicated and. That phrase it's the only thing I use is where I wanted to bring in those other points is, the next slide shows. When we look at the toolbox and that's a familiar analogy in our field. You know, the good carpenter has more than 2 tools in the toolbox. If you only have a hammer. Then everything, every task you're trying to do is that phrase gonna look like a nail. And that's where when Kerry and I are talking about low tech mid tech high tech matching and that next. Slide shows the, I like this triangle model. Of I think of our students as they are the tester. Of the tool. Does this fit for me? Does this fit for the task that I need it to? So finding the tool that does and assigning it, you know, matching it to the task. And I think of with students kind of a spreadsheet of these are My tools. And they can identify. Which is the task that it works better for verbalizing that where it's a lesson time where you fill out that spreadsheet of you know, if, when I use my phone, when I use my hand held magnifier, when I go to the iPad. So that they're aware of. I'm the one who's building my toolbox. And we've used the instance of. Students can be overwhelmed. I've had students, you know, they'll come to one of our. L vision on the road program and they can lay out 5 6 tools. I've got a ruby. I've got a dome. I've got this little plasticy magnifier that my grandpa gave me. I've got, you know, reading glasses and they, I don't know, this is just what people gave me and they said I'm supposed to use it and it's okay let's break that down and figure out which ones are working for you because it's good to clean out the toolbox. We all do that when our skill set gets more sophisticated, I can take out the simpler tools that don't match as well. So I want students to have that sense of your maintaining your toolbox. And this triangle model that you're the tester. You're comparing the tools and you're managing your tasks.

>>Carrie: Yeah, and I wanna address, there's a question, Cindy, in, in the chat again, and it says, will you be able to touch base on some strategies if a student strongly refuses to use low vision devices and better computer technology. I want to honor my students who choose not to use what I'm showing them because they are advocating for themselves. So my thought on this is it's your job, right, to expose them, teach them what is out there. If they are using something that works for them, even if there's something actually better, if it's working for them. Then continue then and they're willing to use it. Then let them use it, right, until it gets to a point where it's not working for them. It really isn't providing them. So yes, sometimes there is something better out there that they could use. Then they're not willing to try and if you can't break through that, then they, they'll abandon it. So, I agree with you wanting to honor to let them use it now. If they're failing and they're not accessing what they need to access. That's where the conversations need to happen because that's obviously not working. Tools that they had. I don't know, Cindy, do you have any thoughts on that?

>>Cindy: 2 thoughts. One of them is. Shoot, I knew I'd lose it once I started that.

>>Carrie: Alright.

>>Cindy: They choose. Let's find one task where we can just practice building the skill, you know, and I've had students say, I won't use my telescope in science class. There's bullies in there. Fair point. Yeah, I can honor that. But in English, if we're watching what's on the board or in, you know, whatever other setting in the school. Let's find one task. To start building the skill. And that sense of I have a responsibility if it's every you know across the school day people need to enlarge the print on pages and tell me what's out there is at some point we need to start opening up that. You do have a role in this as well. It's, and I just hate the idea of a student, you know, resisting. Resisting resisting and it's their senior year. And they have been resisting for 6 years. If we're not doing the, let's find an opening. In the armor. Helping them to let's. Find that task where you can build the confidence. It's it's it's a process. You know, it's it doesn't happen within a couple of months.

>>Carrie: Yeah, but it definitely is our is our job to inform them, share, teach them these what's out there.

>>Cindy: And that was the other thing. The what is the expectation for them to be involved in a task that, you know, accountability on you have a role in this. That gets talked about with the different. In the classroom settings. What is the teacher's responsibility? What is the Tvi's? What is the students?

>>Carrie: So on this one screen, we're talking about the low vision. I'm sorry, low tech. It's covering my title, my stuff. Low tech mint tech and high tech, examples. And so there's in the top left there's a picture of, some, hand held magnifiers, some with light, some without, the glasses. What is the specific name for that, Cindy? Is there a specific?

>>Cindy: Oh, the, they're kind of up by off. They're a low end by optic.

>>Carrie: Okay, and then so that's kind of your low tech. I always look at low tech. I mean, there could probably be ranges of these what people think is low tech and mid tech and high tech. But I always think of low tech is like it's it's not gonna it's still gonna be able to be used. If. Without a battery although the lights they have batteries too but without something needing to plug in or the internet breaking or whatever else. The iPhone, I put that as kind of a mid tech for like magnification and zooming in because it's a built in thing, right? Because they most kids have that. So it's mid tech in terms of like it's not necessarily specialized for them for their low vision needs but it has tools in there that they could use. And so again, but like Cindy said, you know, you can't use your phone all the time everywhere. I just saw thing the other day that one school was like totally a eliminating any phones from their campus. It was a high school somewhere. I think the students walked out. So what happens then? You know, if that's what you decide to use, then even if they were to accommodate it by letting you use it, you're gonna look different because you're gonna be the only one with that phone in that school. And then you've got, the high tech, which is like that very specialized, tool for that student like Zoom Tax for a low vision to students. You know, these were just, these are just a few examples, that we wanted to kind of touch base with that low mid high tech mid is kind of going away a little bit I can but still kinda want to give an example for that.

>>Cindy: No.

>>Carrie: Oh, they're the title. But I was wondering. The tech toolbox.

>>Cindy: Okay.

>>Carrie: So, this is a handout and if you go into the chat, I'll add it again. There is a link to a Google site. And I'll pull it up and it has our tools. I'm sorry, our handouts and different resources from this session today. The very first handout or the very first link is in accessible handout of our PowerPoint. So it's not the PowerPoint, but it's a handle that has all the information from our PowerPoint in there. And then the second one is tech toolbox and I'm gonna open that up. I'm not gonna go through all of this, but basically it's some general. Tools for reading and then writing and then math and science. And then expanded core curriculum and you've got the accessible outline of it first and then in the very last.

>>Cindy: Okay.

>>Carrie: 2 pages, it's like a table. So you could have that in print out. It's not specific devices. It's just the general, devices like large print textbook and photocopies and audio books. Those are like specialized materials for reading. You've got regular print tools like a hand held magnifier or a CCTV or optical character recognition where you know it will read what is on the paper, or a CCTV or optical character recognition where, you know, it will read what is on the paper. This, you know, that's gotten a lot better over the years where it can recognize the, characters and read it auditorily. And then of course you got your screen access, you know, screen magnification, high contrast. Cursor highlighting you know there's lots of things on Chromebooks these days for low vision students. And text to speech and then screen readers. So anyway, I just I wanted to share. That link to those handouts, while we're going through this. Sorry, the tech toolbox. That I showed here. So this was just the reading example that I put on the the PowerPoint. And then more very important tools. So this is some of the things we kind of talked about at the beginning where lighting is so important. You know, glare control and contrast. Some students slam boards or help them to be able so that they're not looking down on the table and you know having other issues with their neck or their backs. And then different pins that can, you know, that. Can help them read better. But again, that's where the student. To decide because some students don't want to use the the dark you know. Darker pens like the, what do you call it?

>>Cindy: The 2020 or the Yeah.

>>Carrie: Blair or 2020 they want to use a regular pen and if they can see what they are writing or they know if that's what they're comfortable with, then let them let them use it. If they're able to do what they need to do. And then the ergonomics checklist that was another resource right Cindy.

>>Cindy: There's a handout. Yeah.

>>Carrie: Hand out on ergonomics. I don't know if you want to share anything else about that one.

>>Cindy: I think this list of tools, so many of our students, a great portion of the population have that better than 20 over 300 vision where they are primarily print users and lighting. The right lying, you know, we have so many different light bulb shades now warm, cool. Flip up USB charged lights for desks. It's they're really lightweight. There's there's a great one out there that is kind of the size of a big flashlight that can just slide into a backpack. Where, you know, the big 3 ring binder that just slants the page up and takes the glare off of it. Because if it's flat on the table, it's bouncing a lot of light. So those, I always, these are, this is the lowest of tech probably, but I think in a lot of situations can really make things easier. So our next slide is. Okay. Okay.

>>Carrie: Sorry, I was reading that somebody was, not able to access the link. So I might have to email her specifically later. Okay, sorry I was reading that in the chat.

>>Cindy: 3 M's where we, you know, mentioned the beginning, motivation is huge with we know that getting the student's head on. What is a motivating task for you? And talking about that and applying the tool. That we will, you know, our goal is to. And the student to be building their skill on it. We already talked about matching the user to the tool and then managing the task. Successfully we've mentioned that again, the confidence. Efficiency in that at the beginning of any time I start with a tool, I'm kinda clunky on it when I'm learning a new app. I'm slower with it, but once I've got that, my skill or my speed has increased and I move around that app way more comfortably. And again, that responsibility. I think we've hit on these. Already, but I think the 3 M's are kind of, I'm always thinking with my students. What can I bring in? The conversation that we can have about motivation, about matching the tool to the task. And then managing it. So that previous question that had come, you know, the student who's locked down, I think these might be openers to that. We absolutely know, especially, adolescents. Super sensitive, sometimes overly sensitive and I want to have that conversation with. He made fun of me. Well, what he really, he asked about, you know, the tool that you're using and helping students recognize the what is curiosity. What is interest and then there are what are rude comments that you know inappropriate insensitive. But that being able to kind of read the comment, the reaction that they're getting from peers. And recognizing may I, you know, is over sensitivity part of this. For me, one of my big issues when I was growing up. The tool used doesn't equalize things and I'll be sitting in the low vision specialist office and it's all you love this telescope. It's great. It's gonna do everything for you. No, it's not. It is a tool. I don't love my telescope. I appreciate it. It is helpful in some situations, but it doesn't equalize things because I am still a slower reader than most of my peers. But I'm I'm very proud that I can manage the task. The student doesn't get the benefit of the tool and that's where we're exploring. For what different kind of tasks can this tool help you with? If a student, you know, I love working in the kitchen. What tool can help you in the kitchen to see things that you. Are needing to there. Having support to build the habit, whether it's during the school day. Or at home. Helping students be able to talk about the tools I use in my friend set. You know, I still have that. If you know you've developed a new friendship and so what's that thing you use to you know, access a menu. You know, I may be using, enlarging it on the iPad. Just helping them understand. How I am managing my access holding high expectations and reminding students they have an accountability to be a participant in this and then making sure that we are doing consistent training because we, you know, we know with each of the, when you move from middle school to high school, tasks change, the setting changes and going back in and kind of doing, you know, a practice session. With the student just like a calms would. And a new environment we're gonna do a practice run on how the student navigates that. So we're doing the same thing with checking tool. Use when the setting or the task changes. And this next slide. Has a fun acronym. That. In.

>>Carrie: Oh. There we go. Sorry.

>>Cindy: Okay. When we the literature that talks about tool abandonment is a chief roadblock and a primary roadblock. In tech use. It gets pushed aside, it gets buried under other stuff. So we're wanting to move from. I wanna ignore it, forget it, abandon it to how do I take ownership of it. And this acronym decide these are the 6 factors that if we can address this with students. We're beginning that process of ownership. That the tool is durable, has durability. It's not so fragile or sensitive that I can't rely on it. That it's ease of use what Kerry had said earlier, think simple. Just because it has lots of bells and whistles, it may not be the best match. The cost is part of it because whatever our students, especially by high school. What they're using. When we think past graduation. Will they still have access to that tool? And cost is going to matter. The student is involved in the process of matching the tool to the task that they're comfortable with. That it's dependable, it works consistently. For me and that it's effective. And that was just, it was a fun way to remember when we're looking at Where can we get higher buy in on? Yeah, this I'm comfortable with this tool because we've hit these 6 points.

>>Carrie: Yeah. And I, you know, I used to do a lot of assistive technology evaluations when I was in school. Districts and, we would go through this very long process. I would work with OTS and sometimes PTs as well. Nbi and, we would find this device or this thing that would, that worked best for the student. Except for like I'm not gonna use it. And so, we ended then restart and figure, okay, what would you use? Okay, this might have had not been as good, but. That's what you're gonna use that's where you are so the and they have to be involved they have to be involved in the process because they're not going to just let most people, most students are not just going to let somebody say, here's what you need to use and then they're just gonna use it. They need to be part of that ownership of choosing what works for them. And it could constantly change as well. But I just want to add that one part. Next slide. Roadblocks, what makes it hard? So building the scale, right? Practice, practice, practice. If it is something complex, which some things are complex. Like if you are a low vision student and maybe you are getting the point where maybe your vision is changing and you need to learn something like JOS is very complex, right? So, building that scale, practicing, practicing, practicing, building the confidence, feeling us sense of pride when they do something well with it when it's actually making them successful in school with whatever they are using or successful in their daily life. And then building the habit, the expectation, the motivation to use it. And making it part of their everyday. Existence in life.

>>Cindy: So, and I think that go ahead on the next slide, Kerry, cause you're talking about this.

>>Carrie: Oh.

>>Cindy: I thinking back to the person who asked the that you know the student is locked down just really resistant. And I think. Getting them together with other students. We'll talk about that program on the next slide, but. Helping whether within your district, your region. Where the students come together as a group. And are managing tasks. Talking about comparing what they do. I think is a real motivator. Seeing somebody else like me. Is a motivator. Sorry. I went off.

>>Carrie: Yeah, no, absolutely. So real quick before we go and do this slide, let me go to, back to our. Google site. I wanted to point out a couple other, resources on this page and I know that somebody said my district blocks it I mean I don't that's really hard. You could do it on your phone or do it when you're at home on a different device, you can access this. There's AE R position paper. Did you wanna say anything about that Cindy?

>>Cindy: It's, updating the use of prescribed optical devices that just kind of give some ammunition for even in the 20 first century where we have so many options with high tech it's again the gamut of mid, low mid high. That optical devices because they're affordable. Because they have versatility, they're available, they're durable. Remembering that those are part of the toolbox and that's what that paper talks about.

>>Carrie: Yeah, and then below it is the vision ergonomics. Handout that Cindy and we mentioned earlier as well.

>>Cindy: Percy Cowan wrote that years ago and it's still good reminders. That's. And then, hey, can I try that? That is a link to a website. I can't remember the name of the people that created it right now. I should probably go and say, it is by Oh, I, my brain is. Oh, by Dale, Bowser and Penny Reed made this. So you can download it from that site. I don't think

>>Cindy: I think it's a really student friendly kind of a lesson or 2 to talk.

>>Carrie: Yeah, yeah, it's very student friendly. It's kind it's not like a full AT evaluation or anything like that, but it's just how you can kind of go through and determining. The right tools for students for different tasks. And then, the last one is a low vision on the road fire, which we'll talk about in a second. Let me go back to the PowerPoint. So we have coming up. On May. Tenth our low vision conference, 2024 for the year and this would be actually kind of a continuation of what we kind of began to talk about today. Our topic is ACE or access. And empowerment, and it's at the region 13, but you register through, the ESC works through, but you register through, the ESC works through TSPVI like we, like any other workshop or training. And then some of the topics are student motivation and building rapport with your students. Collaborative consultation, you know, that Collaborative piece with the teachers and all the service providers like the. I teacher and, maybe the, and the parents, you know, also kind of get into part of that, but it's so it's not just one person's job, right, to help the students to access their education. And then access strategies you know really looking at some of the things that our roadblock that are not accessible that our students are given or handed or hosted on, you know, learning management systems. How can they access those? What can you do as a teacher of a student with visual impairment to access some of those things that they get that are just not accessible for them. And then of course in some of the ECC. Things as well, like in their regular world, some of the access issues that come. So please register for this. I guess I can put the link in the chat at the end. So that you guys can go to that registration, but it's also posted on our Facebook page and it's also on our TSVI website for events under, on the outreach. Page so Anything else you want to add to that, Cindy?

>>Cindy: Yup, nope, register, register.

>>Carrie: And then this is kind of Cindy's baby. Do you want to talk about this? I know I was going to, but maybe you can probably share more about this than I did.

>>Cindy: One of the things we, in working with, a, one of the ESCs or sometimes just a district is taking a program out on the road. That brings a group of students together and it's group of students with low vision who use print to some degree. And it's just a very fast paced. Active, we customize it to your region, we schedule it on your calendar, you know, what works with your calendar, where the TVI or the calms comes with the student and we set up a schedule of activities. We build a life-sized eyeball. We, they students move through stations that some of it is using tools. We go out in the community sometimes a wildlife center always a grocery store for those ECC tasks to how am I managing these visual tasks and they are watching how their peers are doing it as well and it's it's their fun days they're high energy and Would love to do one in your region.

>>Carrie: Yeah, and it's amazing. You know, I've done these with her many times. When these kids eyes get open, like literally to like, oh, wow, I can see better at, you know, at the grocery store and see what it costs and you know that's 1 of the most common things that I remember from it is just like how surprised they are to try something new. And.

>>Donna: And Cynthia, we have a couple of questions in the chat. How many students would form a group?

>>Cindy: We. We have done up to 16 that is, that's a big group. 10 to 12 is kind of ideal and it depends.

>>Donna: And how old would they need to be.

>>Cindy: We like to do either elementary, age, or secondary because when we mix second graders with sophomores it gets a little more challenging. So we've been doing elementary days or secondary days or secondary days in the different regions.

>>Donna: And then there was another question. Is could it be across school districts or to they need to contact their regional center to schedule something like this?

>>Cindy: Most often we've been doing it through the regional centers because without poll, you know, we want to maximize. If us from outreach are coming out, we want more than 4 students if we can get up to 1012, 14 and that can be hard to do within a district. So working through your regional center is what we've done most often, but the model has flexibility.

>>Carrie: Most definitely.

>>Cindy: And it's fun as Kerry.

>>Carrie: Yeah. It's fine and the kids learn a lot and you know we teach about the anatomy as well and And they just, they're just, some of them are not aware, especially the elementary, you know, they're just they learn a lot from it.

>>Cindy: Yeah. And you're kinda more open, I think, where middle and high school they've got preconceived or, you know, shut down on this topic.

>>Carrie: So.

>>Cindy: It's a little harder to open them up.

>>Carrie: Yeah, but one thing is also in some of the smaller regions, you know, when they, maybe only have one or 2 low vision students or vision students at all in that school and they come together. With other students in the region, then they kind of make a friend and they like, oh, there's somebody else like me, you know, and and so it kind of gives them I see with the secondary kids like that.

>>Cindy: Hold up

>>Carrie: Somebody else like them that they can talk to, you know, about and make friendship with about the things that they've experienced. So, that's also really cool. About it.

>>Donna: And next question would be who would their center need to contact to schedule the program?

>>Cindy: You can contact me and then we figure out as an outreach team. Who, can take the who can work together on the program.

>>Donna: Cindy, would you would you like me to link them to the outreach contact form?

>>Cindy: And we really. Nope. Tor, short. And we, work with you the whoever, you know, whatever we're doing it. Let's shape this to what's in your area. What's the need that your staff feels like? Is most needed to be addressed. So there are meetings that we do over Zoom to do the planning. Thank you.

>>Carrie: Yeah. Should I stop sharing? I wanna send that link to the registration. For the, location, or Donna, would you be willing to do that?

>>Donna: Yeah!

>>Carrie: Finally, it's a registration for low vision conference and add it to the chat.

>>Donna: I will do that right now. We've got about 5 min.

>>Cindy: Yeah, we're up to our last slide. So kind of our wrap up.

>>Carrie: Okay.

>>Cindy: These were, you know, and all that we've talked about is if we could bring it down to 3 questions. What's in my toolbox? Where we're involving the student and monitoring and updating that toolbox as appropriate. Knowing that the students are getting it asked about their tools and I I like doing scenario and role play with students. Let's just, man, what is that? What are you doing on your iPad or your computer screen looks different than mine? You know, how do I respond to that? It's I know when I learned keyboard commands, I was so proud of myself that I'm just doing this through, you know, the simple task rather than having to get on the mouse, find the pointer, move it, click. I was simply doing it through a keyboard command so that I felt good about that and I had a response ready for how do you do that? Here I can show you. And then how do we help students along with ourselves keep our improving our access to tech and our tech skills and you know looking at where are the resources that we go, who are my learning partners? I can tell you, Cindy is not great on tech, never been my great comfort zone, but. I know who I can ask around me and that's part of my network. Kerry any other comments on that?

>>Carrie: No, I think you said it really well. Yeah. So I don't know if we have any other questions.

>>Cindy: Good.

>>Carrie: Yeah, I would just go to the Google site. Like I said, if you couldn't get it, cause your district block stuff, then you can get to it on your phone and get the handouts from there. And then, you know, sign up for the low vision conference. The cost is not. Very high. I don't remember on the top of my head maybe $50. Okay.

>>Cindy: Thank you. Okay.

>>Donna: It is 60 for professionals or out of state professionals. It is 25 for pair professionals university students and 25 for family members.

>>Carrie: Yeah, so and it's an all day really great conference here in Austin region 13. So yeah, sign up for that and then yeah, look out, you know, red talk to your region. Center and maybe get us to come out there and do that student program. With, with your students. It's definitely worth it. Okay.

>>Cindy: And Kerry and I, I know we're happy to visit, send an email if we didn't fully answer a question. We like this topic and i think it's that awareness that this from moving from to confidence, it takes some time.

>>Carrie: Yeah.

>>Cindy: We can't force, you know, I stop doing the power play. With students I simply know that my role, I want you to understand your options. And know that my role is to help you build that skill set.

>>Donna: Thank you both, Carrie and Cindy. We had one last question is the virtual is the conference virtual or in person?

>>Cindy: In person.

>>Carrie: Yeah, it's only in person. Unfortunately.

>>Donna: And I'm going to carry if you don't mind.

>>Carrie: Stop sharing. There we go.

>>Donna: Awesome. Alright, so thank you again Cindy and Kerry for hosting today. And let's talk about a few things, first of all. If you go hunting for our Google site where our AT used to be. It is not there anymore. We are now official.