TSBVI Coffee Hour Ð PreK-Nemeth Code 09-28-2020 Transcript start >> Kate Borg: Welcome everybody. Northern Illinois. Hello everyone. Make sure you your drop down in the chat says all panelists and attendees so everybody can see what you're writing, where you're from. Minnesota. Conroe. Awesome. Thank you all so much for coming today. I'll go ahead and get started with our announcements before we turn it over. We're so happy you're here for coffee hour today. If you have a question or comment during the time that our present er is talking, please post that in the chat box And make sure it says all panelists and attendees. Your microphones and cameras are automatically mute muted, so you don't need to worry about that. The handout for today's session will be shared in chat for immediate viewing and also available for later viewing along with a recording of this and all past coffee hour session s through a link on our coffee hour page at TB website. Scroll down under the list of session s so where it says visit the new TB outreach and this is that is a link th Enter the code given at the end of today's session and the certificate will generate upon completion of that evaluation. There is no opening code. Only a closing code and it will be given at the end of today's presentation. We'll stop at 3:55 to give your code and announcements. I'm happy to introduce today's present er Susan Osterhaus. >> Susan: Thank you, Kaycee. And, Kaycee, did you already put in the chat where they can get a copy of the PowerPoint or the handout that I'm giving today? >> Kaycee: Yes, ma'am. Kate just shared it and we'll share it throughout in case anybody comes in late. >> Susan: Thank you. Welcome everybody to learning Nemeth Code Pre-K through first grade. We're starting with the very basics here. And as far as -- whoops. Okay. Come on. that What we're going to be talking about today, first of all, I want to make sure everybody knows what am I talking about by the Nemeth Braille code and when do we start instructing the students in the Nemeth Braille code. That is usually the big's # -- biggest question I get, when do I start. A bigs big portion of this is sharing resources for all the teachers, parents and paraprofessionals wanting to learn the Nemeth Code. I'm going to give you resources But these will be resources based on what you need for Pre-K through first grade. There will be a few things I leave out that may be at a higher level. So I'm going to concentrate just on that Pre-K through first grade level. Then after all of those resources for how you're going to be able to learn the Nemeth Code, I'm going to actually show you or talk a little bit more about a curriculum that is designed for that age group, that Pre-K first through first grade, and that's going to help those students learn the Nemeth Code. It's very -- in my opinion, very difficult to learn, the Nemeth Code, without learning the math that goes right along with it. It's like if somebody came up to you and said, okay, you're comi We can learn how to use it at the Pre-K through first grade level and you'll be -- when that kiddo that's in Pre-K through first now starts to grow up, you'll need it for then. What is the Nemeth Code? The Nemeth Braille code format mat particulars and science notation. That's what it's for. It was created by the wonderful Dr. Abraham Nemeth who was blind from birth and was an absolutely brilliant mathematician and funny guy. We just loved him to death. He was one year older than my own dad and I've lost both of them now. He was such a wonderful man and he was kind enough to share the code with us. He invented it for himself and shared it with us. And at that time when he first did it, it blended beautiful ly with the surrounding literary text, which was the English Braille American addition edition or sometimes loving ly called E boy # bay not to be confused with the other E bay. But in 2012 the Braille authority of North American America, or BANA, adopted the unified English Braille, or UEB, and now we transcribe Nemeth Code within UEB context. You're going to be hearing that a lot. Nemeth Code within UEB context. I'm going to go back to the BANA Nemeth Code Book located on this website, you can go to this website and you will find -- I'm afraid it's a terrible PDF of the green book as I call it or the basic rule book that was, notice, 1972 revision. So we are talking a very old book, but this has been our rule back for many many years. In addition to that, we had to come up with SUP um -- updates, so we're you're going to find there also updates from 2007 through 2015. All of this is available, as I indicated a poor PDF of the green code book. Actually, they're BRF files, so the Braille is better than the print, and then also the same for the updates from 2007 through 2015. In the Nemeth Code rule boom book, though, the non-mathematical text that surrounds the math is based on E bay as I just mentioned, but that's going replaced by UEB. So keep in mind this is still our rule book, our green book, our so-called bible at the moment. However, we have to come up with something new. So the BANA Nemeth technical committee which I happen to be a member of, we are in charge of updating the older book. And in the meantime just because -- you know, before anybody goes into a total panic, we have, while while we're in that process of updating that green code book, we have something for you in the meantime and it's called Guidance for transcription using the Nemeth Code within UEB context dated April 2018. Actually it's the first first thing that you're going to find at that same URL, that same link. Very first thing you're going to find. You can get it in PDF or as a Braille file. If you haven't gotten that, be sure you get that. You want a copy of that or you want to have that link as a book mark on your computer so that you can go and refer to that constantly, because it is the most legal, up to date Kay way of doing the Nemeth Code within UEB context today. Okay. Now, in addition to that transcriber, so any of you who are actually transcriber s or thinking of becoming actually getting certified as a Nemeth transcriber, the national federation of the blind has the course that you actually take to become a transcriber, a certified transcriber of the Nemeth Code. And here's another big long link at N FB website. There's another reason I'm telling you and I'll explain in a moment. If you go to that website, again you're going to find the older version of the lesson BLAN book called an introduction to Braille mathematics 1978. It's a little bit later, but it's still pretty old. Then we have an errata and addenda that's dated November 2014 and another dated July 2016. This introduction to Braille mathematics and the updates, it's still the old Nemeth Code. You might know it by being a yellow or beige or gray book, something like that. This was the book that transcribers used as they wanted to be VERT FIED in MEMENT code, but a lot of us liked to have it for extra examples. It's been a excellent book over the years, but again it needs updating as well. So what's happened there is there's a course manual revision which is called provisional, and that means providing al # # provisional, it's not a final thing at all. It's currently being updated to align with the use of Nemeth Code within the UEB context, And the professional -- provisional version is available for review purposes only. If you go look there and STLS there's something you don't like or want to make comments, this is the time to do it now. It's a draft version because transcribers really needed something to be studying from as they're preparing to be certified in the Nemeth Code. In fact they are breath Leslie waiting for us to hurry up and finish the Nemeth Code Book in its entirety for their revision. The person updating thi I find this useful myself if I'm like, well, how would I do this because it's got to be Nemeth within UEB context? That's the thing that most people are having trouble with. I know my Nemeth Code, but how do I do it within the UEB context? But again, this is just another resource, but again it's a draft but it's such a good resource that I do want to share that with you guys. Now, here's that big question: When should Nemeth Code instruction begin? My answer is begin in preschool. And just about everybody I know who is knowledgeable in this agree with me, so I hope you will as well. In other words, I've got a picture here of three little -- normally you probably call them ABC blocks, but they're 1, 2, 3 blocks. These are called Braille math blocks from uncle goose, so you have to pay real money to get these, but they are so worth it. In my opinion, it's like -- people ask me, you say you're going to begin it in Pre-K, but what have you got for us to start in preschool? This is one of the very easiest things because you know that all of your kids sighted peer s have these cute little blocks waiting for them, so I think that each of our SIDZ should have a set of these blocks so as they're checking out the blocks Just as they're sighted peer s are checking out the blocks -- they probably won't know exactly what they're looking at, but they might start asking questions and you'll point out this is a 1, this is a 2, this is a 3. It's a Nemeth Code. It's not a raised line drawing of 1, 2, 3, but it is kind of a carved out 1, 2 and 3. I'm not even sure if they can tell the dots. They also have carved out dots, 1 dot, 2 dots and 3 dots. These are neat little blocks for the pre preschool ers to be playing with, it's the whole thing of being exposed to the Nemeth Code. Now I've got a cute little girl here that's going to introduce us to the next section. What she's doing here is checking her Nemeth Code. So what we're going to go into now are some resources for teachers, parents and paraprofessionals to learn themselves to learn the Nemeth Code. Now, I want to say this was the very first group of people that came out with something as far as aligning the Nemeth Code and actually aligning it with math standards. This was even done before UEB came out, and this was Maryland. And they did in this in 2012 and everybody got so excited about it and we were really -- I mean, just about everybody who has done anything in this area has gone and looked at this and used this as a template. Now, when UEB came out, though, they quickly updated to being Nemeth within UEB context. And this is where you can now find this particular document. This is its name. What a name. It's not something that you would -- it doesn't roll right off the tongue and it's not something that you would think you're in the right place for, but it's Maryland's college and career ready standards for unified English Braille and Nemeth Code. They didn't even say it quite right, but this is not the fault of the people who wrote the book, this was whoever was doing the this on the website in my opinion. Then we've got all the other updated 2015. Even if you look at the URL, the last little bit scare s you off it says UEB math. I've given this a to a lot of people and they say this isn't the right thing. I cringe and say it is the right thing, whoever wrote the link got lazy, they threw out the BRONG wrong thing and left the UEB in there. Again, this is the correct link and it's a beautiful document. And let me show you some of the things that are in there. So this is Maryland's plan in a little more detail. On the left I took a page out of the prekindergarten and you can see how it's set up. I know that we have people from all over the place, but if you are from a common core state, do not panic because Texas is not common core either, it doesn't matter, please believe me, all of these line up with whatever standards you have. In Texas they line up with the TEEC and so forth. This is the same thing we call it in Texas. The cluster, know the number names and accounts sequence. Then they have standards and mathematical standards. That's straight out of the normal practices. If you look all the way down to the bottom on this page, they have the standard and I'm not sure if you can see it but it says essential skills and knowledge. That's almost TEEC but it doesn't have the Texas part there. Okay. Ability to match -- with concrete representations. Students are not DPPD to write numerals at this time. (Expected) so right there it's tied immediately to the Nemeth Braille code. Just love it. Okay. That's for Pre-K. Then I have a standard from them, you see talking about being able to draw with tactile till drawing tools or equation s using the Nemeth Braille code with examples. Again, zero ing in right on what you need to be doing it with the Nemeth Braille code. The next standard is at the first grade level and this time they're talking about the general omission symbol and they say that. (Reading from slide) and that's really the general omission symbol, that's what it's called. Or in case there's a belong line there, instead you would use the double dash for the blank line. Now one thing I disagree with them on -- well, I kind of disagree, it says square shape indicated for box/square. Actually, for promising practices and those people working with -- they asked us to wait on those and the indicator for boxes and squares does not occur on any official standardized testing. You can't see it there or in a textbook until fourth grate grade. Some teachers disagree with this and obviously somebody in Maryland does do, so I will let you decide whether that's good or bad. That's the whole thing, this is the plan. It doesn't mean you have to do everybody verbatim in it and everything in it for your state, your district, your STANTS. Now -- students. Now, as I mentioned, everybody uses that Maryland, they start there. So do we. When we were doing Nemeth at a glance, we finished it up in 20 February of 2017. It's available from SS # # TSBVI at a cost of $60 and I've given you the link there. What does it have for Pre-K through first grade level? It has a bunch of resources. It talks about tactile skills necessary for math, early numeracy, spatial arrangements, comparison signs. Then it has a wonderful grade level chart. So if you're from Texas, right there you've got the exact grade level chart that matches up very, very closely with Maryland. That's what we started with was the Maryland levels and so forth and then we modified them some by what we thought we were doing in Texas. So sometimes something might be up or down a grade level, just depends on what we felt was right for Texas. But again, very, very close. And we have some examples of Nemeth within UEB context. I think we were the first -- probably the first book to actually have Nemeth within UEB context, some examples. Unfortunately, there's not any for Pre-K and kindergarten, we just start them in grade one. But you do have some examples there. Probably what a lot of people find to be even the most valuable, well, I love the grade level chart, though, but the reading evaluation and the writing evaluation. So let me show you a little about that. On the left we have the grade level chart. Again these are my three favorite things. You might like the resources better yet. But these are the things that I just really love. On the left I'm just showing you little snip-its of, for example, on the left I've got a couple of the P-K -- that's for Pre-K there, and you'll notice that the second one -- if you can see it, it says numeral s 0 through 10. That's Pre-K. That's right exactly the same as we just saw in the Maryland group. And then I've got some from kindergarten and then some from first grade. And as you can see, we give the Approximate grade level, a description of it -- then the NCTM or national council of teachers of mathematics grade range. Lots of information there that again goes very nice ly with the Maryland document as well. But then we have a reading EFBLGS. So -- evaluation. So if you want to evaluate your child's reading ability in the Nemeth Code -- now, of course, at the Pre-K through first grade level there's not that many symbols, but I've already shown you at least 10 right there. Okay. We've got the new America indicator -- numeric KRARTS indicators, and you'd say read all the numbers, not write, read, then you're given that particular document in Braille that your student can see if they're RABLT Able to read it or not. We even give you the correct answer, the print example, and you can mark how they score on the pre and post tests. The same thing for the writing. Again, exact directions on how to read the problem to them, everything that is necessary for them to have we provide. Then you've got the correct answer and you can check how they did on the pre and post tests. Another sort source is the APH Nemeth tutorial. I don't know why, but I seem to have my hand in everything. Originally this Nemeth tutorial was written back in 1997 for a research company. Let's see. Research development institute. And Mario, I'm going to give them him the credit, he and I put this tutorial together way back in 1997 and it's gone through all kinds of changes and reiteration s and so forth, And the last people to take it up, he convinced APH to go ahead and make it a APH product and put it up for free online at the tech.app.org URL I'm giving you here. Now we have this APH tutorial. TUN unfortunately it was the regular Nemeth or the Nemeth E bay sometimes people call it. They made changes and the grant money ran out. So I'm just going to tell you right now some of the changes aren't perfect. If you go there and plug something in and it says you're incorrect, you might be correct and it might be wrong. Keep that in mind. That's the only feedback I do want to give you about this. It goes much higher level, but I've only captured a little snip it of their website of chapter 1. There's not really anybody anything anybody is calling Pre-K. If you look at chapter one, reading session s # sections, it's a free resource. As long as it's free, I'm saying you can't loose anything by checking this out. Also we have another Nemeth Braille code for instruction instructors and para indicator s, our online courses at the TSBVI website. These are free and they were done by DER wreck Smith, you're going to get the Alabama accent. His go from Pre-K through 1 and upward but I just captured Pre-K through first grade section here. I guess what I wanted to tell you about that, in addition to it being free and it's on the -- it's on this particular website and I'll tell you what's in there. Numeric indicator, punctuation, English letter, math, addition sign, (reading slide) and some they call them UEB/Nemeth examples. That's just Nemeth within UEB context. So again here is another great resource for you that is free of charge and you can take this at your own pace. Great videos and listening to that Mr. Smith's Alabama accent. So I've shown you all these resources and now what I want to talk about is what we have as far as for those little one s. Okay. Let's say you've learned all your Pre-K through first grade symbols and you know them and you've learned them through this and you're great at it, but you are a adult. You are definitely not a little one. Okay? And you need something to actually teach them. So that's what I'm going to show you next. But before I do, just to keep Kaycee busy in case she's out there not having anything to do, would you put in the chat room for her what you think that Braille says at the very bottom. There's something in Braille dots, white dots on blue down there. Now, if you are blind, you're going not going to be able to see those dots, but I'm just expecting that you already know that Braille. But for those of you who can see those Braille dots, if you could go ahead and put in the chat room, if you would put what you're reading and in just a moment I'll tell you what it actually says so you can check yourself. As you'll notice in here I've got a cute, darling little picture of one of our TSBVI I and she is Braille ing her way there. You'll notice some need things off to the side, manipulative s and so forth. She's doing her fat R math right along with her Nemeth Code and that's the important thing is that we include some of that math right along as they're learning the Nemeth Code so that it really makes sense and they can comprehend why they need to be using this Nemeth Code and how it does relate Okay. So I've hopefully given everything enough time to put the right answer into the chat and that should be 1 plus 3 equals 4. So if you've COMBOT it right, give -- got it right, give yourself a pat on the back. Great. If you didn't know it, you need to learn it. I've given you lots of resources. If you want, wait and learn it with your little one as you teach them with this Nemeth Code curriculum. Let me tell you more about this curriculum. At the present time you need to go to this URL which is accessibility, (reading screen) you're going to go there and find all these different -- it's from Pre-K, kindergarten, first grade and second grade materials. The only thing that's available on this particular website right now is Pre-K through first, which is great because that's all I'm supposed to be concentrating on. But it teaches students to read and write the Nemeth Code within UEB context. Like we said, that's what's currently out there. It's aligned with the common core state standards and the TEEC s, it's still going to align with whatever your standards are. It is full of hands on on games and activities already prepared for you. It includes teacher scripts. That's the most important part. We're talking it's all written out for you. All you have to do is read the script to your child or student, or both, and it's got -- I just loved it. When I was doing this my daughter was wondering what is going on with her because I was over there (making train noise) because every time you do this in Nemeth you have to make sound. I have having so much fun because we incorporate all of these with SDIND some kind of transportation because kids at this age love transportation. We start out with the train and I've now learned all the noises a train can make and we had so much fun. We've got these things listed on the screen. We have everything you need online for free. Now that's at this website for right now because what we're doing is we have -- we have much more to this SUSHG LUM and I'm going to show -- curriculum and I'm going to show you another snip it. This is what we're working on. We're trying to put it on this new pearson Nemeth curriculum materials page. It's going to have Nemeth Code lessons for grades 1 through 8 and also the library for older and younger students to look symbols up. We don't have this particular website up and running now. For now you're going to have to go back to this website but it's all through for Pre-K through first. That's how lucky you are that Pre-K through first is available right there at this URL. Be sure you go there and down load everything you need to get started. Okay. Now, in addition, I promised you games and so forth and so on. So, in addition, we have things, like in prekindergarten we have building a train. Remember I said that the focus in prekindergarten was on trains. We do much more elaborate things or you can do whatever you want is the whole thing. We give you lots of ideas, but your imagine NAKS nation can run wild and of course your children's imagination can run wild. Look at this. All you need for this particular thing is a craft stick and some folk STIM stickers and we have the flash cards already for you, ready to go. So what we have are unique foam stickers and flash cards labeled 1 through 7 and the steps are you should have fell the -- shuffle the card, if the student reads it right, they get to put a stick er on the car and they build their train this way. If they're really good at this they can build lots of trains or you could get cardboard boxes and make a real train, You could have a toy train and put stickers on it, whatever you want to do. If you cad add print numbers, you can -- if you're -- there's all kinds of things. Even when there isn't another peer LRND LRND around, the teacher or friend or parA, whoever is right there, we have that as well. Then we're moving to kindergarten and at this point -- oh, all kinds of things happen in kindergarten. You've got your place of value and you have to be talking about 10 s and 1 s. And we have flash cards and this one says 25, if you don't know what it says in Braille. Notice I'm just showing you things in Braille so you can see them on this PowerPoint, on the right is not what's in the curriculum. You basically are going to emboss this real place value chart. But I'm showing it to you printed out so you can actually read the Braille because it's very difficult to read white on white, Braille on Braille. So I've just done this in print for you guys. What you're got is on the left column you've got your 10 s and on the right your 1 s. To make 25 you need two 10 s and five 1 s. You can use base 10 blocks, but I just chose to use 10 blacks blocks. If you're wondering there are 10 little units tucked inside the box and you can open it up and take them out or put them back in. Then we have the kindergarten maze. This I just absolutely adore. By the way, if you've never made one of these kindergarten maze s, trying to keep it together, it's not easy. If you ever try to replicate this, you're going to see how it's not the easiest thing to do. When you get to this maze, use it as a template and make any kind of maze that you want, which I've made a whole bunch for maze s for other things out of this template. If you'll notice the person comes in and moves to the right. Then it says 2 minus 1 equals -- the child race has to first read it, figure it out, once they have the right answer they're allowed to move on in the maze all the way down to the finish. A lot of our students never get to do maze s. All of their peer s, they hear them having so much fun with maze s, our kids go absolutely crazy over these maze s. It's just the most fun. I think they're fun, as a adult I think they're fun. But our kids absolutely love these little maze s. Also in kindergarten you're dealing with a hundreds chart. One of the things we suggest doing is taking a APH already consumable hundreds chart and cut it up in various ways. In this case we cut it up where it's like a jig saw puzzle and you ask the student after they have been learning about it see if they can put the hundreds chart back together as a puzzle. Very simple and easy but very much fun and they are learning. Now the next one is for first grade and it's called find the path activity and help the pilot get to the airplane. Now, again, this is one -- can you tell I love all the games? This is one of my favorites because I'm the one who got to do a bunch of this stuff, so let me explain what this is about. Now everybody needs to catch watch they carefully. Here is like the worksheet for the child and it says find the path. It says pilot up in the left-hand corner. Then it's got all these little spatial arranged math problems for them to do, these happen to be addition. They have to help the pilot get to the airplane. There's a lot more instructions with this, what they have to do. Basically, once they do all the problems, following the path and we tell them how to do that, then they are Asked to actually draw the airplane either by using the Braille writer or by building it separately and sticking is on the in the bottom right-hand corner TLCHLT. So everybody watch carefully so to see what I did. Whoops. Sorry. So hopefully y'all noticed the little airplane fly in. Bottom line I made any my little airplane on the Braille writer and I'm not saying they have to do that, but I'm just telling you I'm a adult and I had so much fun withth If you are teaching your students, your child this, I think you are going to have the most fun you have ever had in your life. I mean, I just -- like I said, you can tell, I had so much fun with this. If you're wondering what I did for most of my teaching was teaching high school math. So believe me when I say I had fun and here I am down at the Pre-K through first grade level, you're knowing I'm really telling the truth. So I had a lot of fun with this and I hope you will too. In addition, when we get to first grade, the students are actually learning now their hundreds chart was great for many, many years, now they are really wanting us to use a 120 chart. Just to let you know, you cannot yet get a 120 chart from APH. We have put in requests that we can have a 120 chart, but it's not out there yet. So this isn't something 2345 that you're going to see in this curriculum that you probably won't find anywhere else unless you made it up yourself. This is a 120 char So the student first has to find the shape and then they need to write the missing numbers from the 120 chart. So this is kind of a fun and exciting thing for them to do, but they still have to show that they are able to write those numbers and that they understand the whole business about the shape and it's a rectangle and so forth. So we sneak our little bit of math in there and we have Nemeth Code and it's still a fun way. We have lots of other different shapes that they can find with this. Now, there's many more, I just can't keep showing you one thing after another. I want something to be a surprise. But there's lots more hands-on materials and manipulative s for math and science contained in the curriculum. There is a wonderful template for bin go TARDZ cards. Let me tell you I used that a lot. I was making some bin go cards last week. You can use it for what we ask you to do, but you can use that for many, many other things. There's also a template for a 5 frame, a 10 frame. We came out with these before APH -- they now have a template for 5 and 10 frames that you can get from them, but we came out with these and I think it's still great because you can do everything from the curriculum. We tell you about things like APH has this, but if for whatever reason, you're at home right now, you can't get to those, they're built into the curriculum. So it's very nice. You can make the choice whether you're going to be able to get it from APH or whether you want to use the one we've DWAPD developed. There's also roll and race game cards, flash cards, more shapes activities. Again I want to emphasize there's not just the one where you have the shapes, but we actually have a counting to 120 chart that can be embossed right there for you and you can just have it as many as you want of counting to 120 charts and then you can do whatever you want with them. You can do something similar to what we did with the shapes activity that I showed you. Okay. So now also built in, along with everything else, along with the script and the fun games, we also have some strategies for supporting that child, that students student in building math skills. I'm just showing you my favorite stuff. Braille and the equal sign, a lot of people have trouble with, okay, I know what it looks like after I get finished, but I never can figure out how to get started. Well, what you do is with the equal sign, the less than sign and the greater than sign, although I'm just going to talk about the equal sign, you always start with the right hand. And think about it. You've got two dots followed by DWO dots. -- two dots. If you always start with the right hand, -- two fingers are equal to two fingers. Two dots are TWOL equal to two dots. I'm hoping that after you've thought about this a little bit while and practiced this, from then on you will have that So we have all kinds of strategies like this built in. And these are mostly for -- well, they're for a student and that includes you. If you're just starting out with your child learning this at the same time they are, you're the student as well, so you're going to learn all these cute little strategies and STRIKS of the game that we've all had to do ourselves when we were first learning. So just because you're a adult, you can learn these strategies as well. I'm going to tell you a lot of times when I've shown people this, they've gone, oh, my gosh! Now it's going to be so much easier. I have been struggling with that for years. Keep in mind there's all of these fun strategies built in. They're supposed to be designed for that little Pre-K through first grade student but it's okay if you're a little bit older, like me. Like I said, I had so much fun going through this curriculum as a adult, a adult who's taught math for years and years and years, I still had so much fun with this curriculum. Okay. Now I'm going to show you those high tech apps I promise theed. -- promised. The first one is the as accessible equation editor. It's available on that website. Ike I'm checking my time, I'll see if he can I can get there and make this work for you. If you'll notice it's 1 plus 2 equals 3 in print and then in GRAL Braille. And it happens instantly. This is something that's neat. Let me see if I can get to it and make sure it's working correctly. I'm going to go in here. Input says Braille to -- control Q. I've got KWERTY right now and I'm sitting here as a sighted person on my keyboard, I'm going to put 3 -- notice at the bottom what's happened -- minus 2 equals 1. Where the cursor -- it's just stopped where the cursor is. Did you all follow that? That was instantly. As I was typing 3 minus 2 equals 1 in print, it was automatically showing up in Braille at the bottom. Let's say you're doing your Pre-K through first grade work here and you forget what it's supposed to look like in Braille, you can type it here and see it. Let me clear this off, get rid of all of that. This time I'm going to go back to that control Q and it says input set to 6-key entry mode. The first mode would be if I had a Braille display hooked up to my computer I could Braille it in on that and do this, but since I don't have one hooked up I'm going to use what they just said was 6-key entry. Hopefully you know what that means, if but if you don't, you put your fingers on the keys and I'm -- let me get this out of the way. Am I in the right one? Let me see. Whoops. No, I don't want Braille. I want -- there. Okay. Let's see. Oh, I know what. It waits for me. I did the numeric indicator but it was waiting for me to put the 1 because it's not going to tell you that until you put it in there. I'm Braille ing right now. I'm doing what you see down below and it's telling me what it looks like in print. I'm putting in my 3, a minus sign -- this is probably too hard for -- anyway, there's my minus 1. Okay. Now I'm going to put my equals. Okay. 1 plus 3 minus 1 is 3. Whoops. It doesn't like -- I've got to put -- let me see. Did I put my -- whoops. I've got the wrong thing. That was just me messing up. So what I did right now is I entered everything in Braille and it showed me what it looks like in print. This is another thing. You could have your child or your student inputting it either on a Braille splay or using 6-key entry and you can tell that way whether they had done the Nemeth correctly because it would show you what they did. If you can't read the Braille, you can read the print. It's instantly one way or the other. It's got mother more, I just did the basic, but you can do much more on the math. >>: Susan, there's a question on this. Why does it have 8 spots? >> Susan: Let me -- wait a minute. I can show you on here. You're talking about these dots down here. Well, we still are using 6-dot Braille. But since this is -- we're on the computer and so forth, we can use dots 7 and dots 8 for something. So what we've used here is -- this is just to show you. Dot 8 is showing you that was our last entry and this dot 7, 8 are just showing you where the cursor is. So what we do is the Braille is still in the dots 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, but the dots 7 and 8 are used to show you where your last entry was and where your cursor is located. Very good question. Whoever said that gets a A plus. Good, excellent question. Kaycee, thank you for asking about that. Wonderful. Now, here's another one. You'll notice it's not an equation editor. It's very, very simple, but you might find this useful at the Pre-K through first grade level. And you can do the same thing. You can enter the same problem either in Braille or in print. But the problem is -- when they first had this come out they didn't even have the 6-key input thing. I said you have to at least put that in, so the demo was up where I could use it. Otherwise you couldn't do your 6-key input. This is also kind of a nice little thing, but if you get into higher math, it's really -- it's not quite as good and DESMOS is a company coming up with accessible calculators. It focuses really on using the Braille for its calculators. So it's not the same thing. It's not really an equation editor. And they don't even, you know, pretend to be that. But in this particular case, if you had something really simple, you might want to use it as well. So it's just another option because I always Show competition. It used to be we didn't even have one choice much less we could actually choose from two things. This is a first for me and it's only because I'm used to having questions throughout, but I actually got through what I wanted. So, Kaycee, if you will go ahead and let me know, did we get any other questions that we could answer at this point? >> Kaycee: Yeah, we've got a couple. Earlier somebody asked and Kate gave a answer but I'll have you give a answer as well, somebody asked about how different states have object adopted the UEB math and some have adopted Nemeth. What are your thoughts on if a child grows up in one state that is one and then moves to a state that has the other code, should they be learning both codes as they grow up or what are your thoughts on what the TVI should be teaching them? >> Susan: Okay. I will tell you first of all I have a huge bias for Nemeth Code. In fact, it's kind of funny because I had to do a lot of comparison documents and if they would like to see any of that, I can show -- anybody can e-mail me about that. But it's kind of funny or aRon in this case I can while I was trying to do these comparison documents to show how I felt about it because I thought Nemeth was easier and faster and more compact, etcetera, I had to -- I was ending up learning UEB math because I had to sit there and do the comparison documents. So keep that in mind that I do know something about both codes. But we definitely have this problem and I'm thinking that what we do is BSH -- well, for one thing we are going to learn -- at this age they would be learning some of those basic, like the numbers, it's very much like it used to be when we had Nemeth with a E bay, people would use the literary numbers when it was literary and then Nemeth numbers when it was Nemeth. So as far as their numbers, they still can learn both. They can learn I guess what I would call UEB numbers and Nemeth numbers, that part is fine, learning both of those. Even if they were completely Nemeth within UEB context, they're still going going to have to learn a few basic symbols they would need when they're doing UEB. Like if they're reading an English book and the book decides to say John plus Sarah equals love, They're going to have to know the plus sign and the equal sign for UEB just to be able to do that if it's a literary type of situation. So my thinking is, you know, that they go ahead and just learn whatever the code is that -- you know, when they're growing up, whatever the code is that that particular state or district or whatever has adopted. And this can be very different. I do have another document that says -- I'm going to just let you know the majority of states have gone with Nemeth, just to let you know that, but I did meet a young lady, I think she was in Pennsylvania, because Pennsylvania has been going back and forth. They decided they were going to be UEB and then parents got upset and no, we want it to be Nemeth. So right now they're into whatever. And this young lady was from Pennsylvania and she said the state test was going to be in UEB math, but she liked Nemeth. So they were like, oh, gosh. So they supplied her with all of her -- they were willing to supply her with all of her materials with Nemeth wine within using UEB context, but then they told her that the people doing the state Texas test -- which I don't think is legal, but they said the test was only going to be be available in UEB math, but Monday, Wednesday, Friday she was doing Nemeth and Tuesday, thirst UEB math and then switch. And if she got something wrong, this is what the parents and the child were telling me, if she got something wrong because one Kay day she forgot it was UEB day and she wrote it in Nemeth, it was wrong. So that just kills me. As a teacher, you know. This young lady was very, very bright. This student was very, very bright and I think she was going to be able to do it. But she was not your average student. So I am quite concerned about that. I hope I answered their question. It's a hard thing. And then if that student -- these days -- as a old military brat myself, I traveled all over the place. So again, either for military reasons or for whatever reasons, children do move these DEES days and so that is a concern. Not everybody stays in the same state for the rest of their lives. >> Kaycee: Okay. Thank you so much, Susan. We had a few other questions, but we are out of time, so Kate did put Susan's e-mail acan dress -- address in the chat there. If you have other questions -- Susan would be happy to answer those, so send those over to her. I want to remind you we have different times for different session s. Thursday and Monday session s are different. Monday s are at 3:00 p.m. central daylight time and Thursday s are at 12:00 noon. Check TSBVI.EDU for upcoming session s. On Thursday we have introduction to the chrome book with Bruce and Cecilia. On Monday we have distance consideration s with Karen. We then have a short break and have no session on the 8 th due to the APH conference and none on the 12th due to Columbus day.