TRANSCRIPT - Learning with Travelers who are DeafBlind: Insights from Practice and Research Ð 10/28/24 >>Heather: What we're going to be chatting about today is learning with travelers who are Deafblind. And learning from the practice and research from some people that we have here. I'm going to introduce myself and we'll all go ahead and introduce ourselves. And after that we will go through our agenda. So to start, hello, again, I'm Heather. People call me Hex. My name is Heather Withrow. I'm a certified orientation and mobility specialist. I am also the mother of a Deafblind 14-year-old. And I'm a transition consultant here on the Texas Deafblind Project. Based here in Austin, Texas. So I'm going to turn it over to Edgenie. >>Edgenie: Sure. Hi, everyone. We're so glad that you're here with us today. My name is Edgenie Bellah. I work with Hex on the Texas Deafblind Project, which is part of the Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired. I'm also an orientation and mobility specialist. Have done that for many years, primarily working with adults who are Deafblind. So I'll turn it over to Jessica. >>Jessica: Hello, everyone. My name is Jessica Williams. I work in Oregon, currently, and I'm living in Minnesota right now working as a Deafblind intervener at the Minnesota School for the Deaf and Blind and I'm so happy to join you guys today. I guess I'll turn it over to Amy. >>Amy: Thank you so much, Jessica. It's Amy. I work at Portland State University. I'm an associate professor there and I coordinate the orientation and mobility program. I've long been interested in DeafBlindness. I actually started in DeafBlindness before starting in the field of visual impairment. So this is close to my heart and I'm honored to be included today on this panel. >>Heather: Excellent. Thank you so much, everyone. Happy to have everyone joining us. It's such an exciting topic. Today's agenda, you can see it here. We have just introduced ourselves. We are going to talk about evolving knowledge and research. And we'll have some pictures and videos for ourselves to analyze. I really look forward to sharing some of these with you guys. We're going to have perspectives from Deafblind children and we'll close it out with implications for practice. So, yes, great. I'm going to turn this now over to Amy. >>Amy: Well, one of the things that I've had the opportunity to do while being in academia is really delve into our knowledge base and research. And it may not be a surprise to any of you if you already are an orientation and mobility specialist and are here, including us today, is that you were trained most likely in hearing and in the importance of hearing and sound and sound vocalization. A lot of the O&M curriculum is O&Ms developed for people who were returning from World War II. That's how our field was actually born. So soldiers who were coming back who had experienced injuries, who maybe lost vision adventitiously. That is how our field of knowledge began and certainly it has evolved since then to include children, number one. Then to include people with multiple disabilities. And including seniors and elders who learn differently as well. But much of the traditional O&M curriculum has not centered on students who are Deafblind. So there's a lot of emphasis on verbal instruction. But we know that our dear colleagues, Donna Sauerburger and Dr. Eugene have done research on education with the public and the importance of communication. Donna Sauerburger has a wonderful book from 1982. That's how long it's been around, on travel without sight and sound, or travel beyond sight and sound. And we've put some links to those resources in your handout so you can delve more into those things. But also we want to acknowledge that there has been a lot of leadership from people who are Deafblind. Specifically linguistic type of research that has emerged more recently in the past 15 years that has focused on the importance of touch. And, in fact, a whole new language emerging around tactile ASL. And Dr. Tara Edwards is a linguistic researcher who has partnered with members of the Deafblind community in Seattle, in Minnesota, yes, in Texas. And has really looked into this emergence of the importance of touch. And that's added so much to our knowledge base. It's challenged the field of O&M in very appropriate ways of how people who are Deafblind acquire orientation and mobility skills. Then even more recently there's been some work out of even Portland State University, where we've talked with O&M specialists who serve the Deafblind community as well as travelers who are Deafblind about what they need to acquire O&M skills. So you'll see that in action in a little bit of our videos today that Jessica is going to show you. We know that the integration of technology affects us all. AI is a big topic for all of us in orientation and mobility and in the world at-large. How does this intersect? How does this technology intersect with people who are Deafblind? So we'll talk about that and you'll get to see the use of some technology embedded in some of these videos. And I would just say that there's an emphasis in both old technology and new technology that come together. And we also know that technology is not a replacement for core orientation and mobility skills but it can be a powerful supplement. Some of the research has told us, in talking with leaders who are Deafblind, is that they are frustrated sometimes when technologies have been created only for hearing blind adults. That they have had trouble accessing technologies that aren't exactly designed for people who don't use as much hearing or don't use hearing at all for their travel needs. That is what has emerged out of some of our research. And we'll talk a little bit more about what people who are Deafblind, both children and adults are telling us about the importance of trust, communication, time, the extra time that's needed to acquire orientation and mobility skills. When you have combined vision and hearing barriers to the environment. But how touch can really supplement that as well as technology. And so now I'll turn it over to Jessica, who is going to share with you some videos. Please be patient with us as we get these set up and going for you appropriately. Jessica. >>Jessica: Okay. Hello. This is Jessica here. I want to show you a video that I did during my practicum at the Seattle Lighthouse for the Blind last summer. I was working with a few Deafblind adults who were really working on their O&M skills and teaching them how to use OKO with a Deafblind person. We had never touched that person and so it's orienting to the environment first and learning about the importance of touch and feeling the vibrations and how those vibrations are telling you either not to cross -- they have two different vibrations. So we were analyzing how you can feel the difference comparing, you know, the traffic that was happening with the vibrations. And so let's go ahead and start that video. [Video] [Traffic sounds] >>Wait. Traffic light is on. [Beeping] >>Jessica: Okay. Great. And you saw some touch information happening through protactile language on the back of the shoulder where the traffic was and where the intersection. And the numbers counting down. So I'm just curious if anyone noticed anything else? >>Heather: I see someone who wrote in the chat -- does anyone want to read the chats out loud? >>Edgenie: This is Edgenie. Yes. Annie shared: I love that they are usinghaptics touch. Would you or Hex or Amy like to quickly explain the difference between haptics and protactile so we can all learn together? >>Jessica: Sure thing. Sure. Go ahead, Hex. >>Heather: This is Hex here. Haptics is more of a system of touch. It's a systemized code. Whereas protactile is more of a language. It is a language. Protactile is a language. So they are both based in touch. Yes. But the one thing I love to say about these two things is that you can use protactile to explain about haptics. You can do that. But you could not use haptics to explain about protactile. Because protactile itself is a language. It uses, you know, lots of expansion. You can have full discussions in protactile. Whereas haptics is a touch-based signals, cues, and codes, more of a systemized system like that. And in the video that was just shared, what I saw was there was a lot of touch communications happening. So, Jessica, do you mind explaining a little bit of what that was that you were doing and then the tapping. I would love to hear about that. Do you mind explaining that? So fascinating. >>Jessica: This is Jessica here. That tapping was how fast the vibrations were happening on the phone. When it was saying "don't walk." If it was very fast, that tap, tap, tap, it's a fast vibration. But those slower taps, slower vibration, that's what was happening. On the back was which direction the cars were going. You know, when I'm going up the back, the cars are moving up. Then you saw the van coming the other direction. But it's good for the person to identify first what's happening in the environment before determining that it's safe to try and cross. We're really analyzing the environment there. >>Amy: This is Amy speaking. I have a question too for the group. What did you notice as orientation and mobility specialists, if you are orientation and mobility specialists, about Jessica's position as the intern instructor here? We talked a lot about position. Yes, go ahead. >>Edgenie: This is Edgenie. Please feel free to put in the chat what you noticed about the position. Great question, Amy. I want to point out that Lori brought in something that we can talk about too and that is she thought the student noticed that a van was in the crosswalk once the vibration started. So using some good information. So just curious, what did you all notice about the location positioning? Ed said on the side opposite of the parallel traffic. >>Amy: Yes. Exactly. This is Amy speaking. What is that allowing the traveler to do? The traveler has Usher Syndrome, so he is profoundly deaf, and he has retinitis pigmentosa so he's using his central vision. You see in the image here he's using his central vision to maximize the OKO app. He's also maximizing his central vision so that he can identify with the OKO app the crosswalk signal. So how else is this position really allowing the student to integrate the use of technology as well as analyze the environment for his safety? >>Heather: This is Hex here. I'm going to maybe throw a little clue out. How is it similar to when we're using people with hearing, you know, like we have the vision here but not using hearing. >>Amy: This is Amy speaking. Ed says as he's getting the protactile information he's able to scan for cars. Exactly. And MaryAnn says he's far enough back to allow for jumping of curbs and delays in cars stopping. Exactly. He is further back. So Jessica's position is interesting as he's analyzing. And his position, the traveler's position is interesting with the integration of technology. And I get to be a proud mother hen. Jessica is in our program and I get to learn with her. And I got to film this lesson as she was doing some teaching and working with clients at this camp. Should we watch some more video? Would that be helpful? We've got some more for you. >>Sure. Yeah. >>Amy: All right, Jessica. Let me go to the next slide. It wants to play automatically for us. Okay. Here's some more video and picture analysis. Jessica, take it away when you're ready. >>Jessica: Perfect. This is Jessica here. So I have two Deafblind people. You'll see one person and then both have Usher Syndrome. They are both adults with Ushers. One has a lot of experience with the cane, with the mini cane. >>Amy: Mini guide. >>Jessica: Thank you so much. Both have experience with that mini guide, that tool for things that are found, if there's a pole or anything, obstructions in their way. So you'll see that one person has a lot of experience with that. And the other person does not. And so during this training, I was trying to empower the one Deafblind person to teach the other one who had less experience with that. And allowing for that parasocial learning and for them to learn from each other. While I am there at the same time and communicating with both of them tactilely at the same time, so hopefully, yeah, you'll enjoy this. Let's take a look. [Video] >>Amy: I'm playing this several times because it's a very short video. But it's also important about Jessica's position. So very, very micro video. Let's watch it again. [Video] Jessica, do you want to make a comment about that? >>Jessica: Yeah. You see I have my hands on both of them at the same time, giving that contact at the same time. We can go on to the next one. >>Amy: Okay. [Video] [Beeping] >>Jessica: Okay. Jessica here. Yeah, go ahead, Hex. >>Heather: Yes. I wanted to say I was laughing because it's so familiar, that communication. It's all in touch and everything's happening. Everyone's in touch with each other and lots of things are happening at once. There's a question over here and a comment over here and there's so many things happening through touch and I'm just so fascinated with that video. While we discuss that, I would love to share that video again. But also there's one thing I want to point out where the three of you were crossing together. What I noticed was as you got closer to the other side, the curb on the other side, I saw you reach your hand back to kind of do some tapping on the client who was behind you. I was letting him know of the truncated domes coming up. So, yeah, communicating about the detectable warning surface. Also known as truncated domes. I know there's a million names you can call those things. Yes, those -- that's clear. I like that. That's clear. Yeah. So I thought that was really interesting. >>Amy: Shall we play it again? This is Amy. >>Heather: Tactile play. I love it. Got some new vocabulary. Love it. Or sometimes we call them the bumpies here with our kiddos. Okay. Yes. Amy or Jessica, do you mind talking more about what was happening after you finished crossing the road and what you guys were communicating about then? >>Jessica: Jessica here. Yes, what happened in that situation was that there was the person who didn't know that the Deafblind person was supposed to stand behind that machine or the thing that you press, the button you press before you cross the road. So he thought trained by another O&M who said, no, you're supposed to stand opposite. And that those things were more for hearing blind people to stand in that location when you're ready to cross. But Deafblind folks are supposed to stay with where the vibrations are and so you can cross directly and you don't veer into traffic. So the other Deafblind man was letting him know like, no, you really should stay on that same side. So they're learning to trust that you're in the right spot. It was nice learning from another Deafblind person. So they're talking about their experiences and what they have learned and their philosophies. That was really empowering that I wanted to empower that one client to tell the other person his experience and how he veers less. It was really inspiring to me. It was kind of like, wow, I love that ability for them to teach each other. >>Heather: Yes, and there's another benefit for a Deafblind person to stand behind that APS. When they touch that pedestrian signal, it can be a benefit if it does vibrate. >>Edgenie: This is Edgenie. Somebody asked earlier what a mini guide is. Would one of you like to share about that? >>Jessica: Sure. This is Jessica here. I do have a tool here but, anyway, I'll show it later. I can go get it. What do you want to say, Hex? Sure. Maybe just a brief summary of what it is. It's a small box. It has two red buttons on it -- one side has a button and the other doesn't. And it has a cover with two things on it. And you hold it and it does different measurements and it will vibrate when you're 13 feet, 6.5 feet away from something, 3 feet, and then a few inches away from it. It measures how far you are from an obstacle and it will give you different vibrations, depending on how far you are from it. It can identify if cars are turning from the left lane or if they're making that left-hand turn. Or if you're looking for the APS and the pole, it will tell you when you're getting really close to it. And so it is nice for people when they are crossing because if they're starting to veer a little bit, it will give them that vibration when they're getting close to it. It can be a very nice tool to have. >>Heather: Hex here. And you know things like how do you know? So it vibrates as you're getting closer to things. Which is very cool. Deafblind accessible, very cool. >>Amy: This is Amy speaking. There were three technologies that I got to observe that Jessica -- and the man you see that's behind the two Deafblind men that are chatting on the street corner and Jessica's there with her hand on both shoulders, there's a man standing behind them. That man is David Miller and he's been an orientation and mobility specialist for many years, probably 40 years. And he's worked primarily at the Seattle Lighthouse for the Blind. Very closely with the Deafblind community. And the three technologies were the APS. That was already brought up. The accessible pedestrian signal, which has a vibratory feature, which we have been talking about. The mini guide and then the OKO app as an integration. And the mini guide was being used to help the person detect and find the pole where the APS was. So there was an integration of three different types of technologies. One in the built environment, the APS, and then the other two, the mini guide being used for object detection and object location, landmark location. And the final one being used, again, to cross the street, to be at least aware of the pedestrian signals and have that in a more accessible vibratory format. Interesting to observe all three of those things at work as a part of this lesson. Yes, the peer-to-peer communication, we know in orientation and mobility sometimes there are group lessons that are appropriate and sometimes someone seeing, whether they are Deafblind or not, hearing blind, can learn from each other and how to use technology so I love that Jessica was facilitating that and allowing one person who has used those technologies much more frequently be a mentor to another person who was using those technologies on a real lesson. >>Heather: Hex here. Yes, thank you so much, Amy. I'm looking forward to talking about that peer-to-peer benefit too. Maybe we can watch that video again with what we know and see if any new insights come up. >>Amy: Perfect. [Video] >>Heather: This is Hex here. I really also like when you guys crossed and you were done crossing. You stayed in touch with both of them. You were in contact with both of them at the same time and it was constant contact so there was no disconnection there. I love to see that contact with both of them. I think, so either one could easily find each other to have that conversation and you were available for that. I love that. >>Jessica: Jessica here. I want to add one thing. And maybe you all noticed but when we finished the crossing, what he did with his eyes. It is okay with no answers but if you see he used his hands to cover his eyes so he did have an issue with the glare coming in. So if you notice the other person suggested using a hat or sunglasses. That would be some good advice. Uh-huh. I saw that answer come in. Yes. And thank you for pointing that out because also that's something to keep in mind when you are visually communicating with a Deafblind person who's still using some of their vision, be aware of where the sun is and where the light is coming in and where that glare is because you want to make sure that the sun is not behind you, if you're trying to sign to someone, or the interpreter, whatever you're using, depending on the situation. Okay. Someone asked a question: Why is there just one finger on the first person's back? Why did you have just one finger on their back? >>Jessica: Jessica here. That Deafblind person has a lot of things coming in with the OKO app. You've got the mini guide. You've got the vibrating thing so sometimes that full hand, when there's a lot of stuff going on and a lot of that patting, sometimes it's a little too much with all the things going on because you don't want any misunderstanding. That's why, in that moment, I was just using one finger. >>Heather: Exactly right. Yes, there is a lot going on tactually. It's incredible. So what a great conversation. So should we go to the next slide? And let me just look over here. >>Jessica: No video on this one, just some images. There's another Deafblind client with a guide dog. Learning with that OKO app. OKO can be left on your chest so you can feel the vibrations and be hands free instead of holding it in your hand. It's a little bit less risky that it might fall out of your hand or someone might take it so sometimes people wear it around their necks and they can be hands free for their cane or guide dog. >>Heather: This is Hex here. I have a question. Would you mind clarifying. Is there something already available out there for people to use to like connect the OKO to to have it like a case that can already go around their neck? >>Jessica: Yes, the OKO company is selling something. So the Seattle Lighthouse for the Blind already does have a warehouse inventory with some of those things but it's only for internal. It's not for sale yet. I have seen people do it with one of those things you can put a phone in in the front pocket. That works too. Anything you might put a phone in and wear around your neck. That works too. >>Heather: That is a great idea. Yeah, one of those name tag holders, a lanyard, maybe you can stick it in that. How cool. >>Jessica: Great ideas. Awesome. Okay. You can see where I'm standing here with the guide dog. And any guesses why? >>Heather: This is Hex here. Maybe helping clue in people. And it seems like -- maybe it seems like Jessica is far back. Her arm is all outstretched. I see some answers coming in in here now. Yes, exactly right. I know one person mentioned the dog guide is the leader. And that is exactly correct. I always respect the guide dog first. They are in front. Because you want to -- the O&M instructor needs to be out of the dog's sight line. And so you see I also again have that one finger and I am pretty far back there. So the dog's not looking at me, because that dog is already trained to cross the street and I don't want to mess with that. >>Amy: This is Amy jumping in just to say what I love about this picture is it is the integration of those two technologies at once. What you haven't seen is that this client has learned to use the mini guide to detect where the pole is. Because he might miss the pole with his cane. So he's scanning with his cane and his pole and his mini guide to find that pole where the APS is positioned. And then you see him lined up. He's got one hand on the vibratory feature for the crossing. He's learned to use the OKO app that Jessica has oriented him to and using that case where his hands are free. So I really love that this picture kind of encapsulates his positioning, Jessica's positioning, the dog's positioning, his hand on the vibratory APS, and his use of the OKO app to detect when it's safe to cross. So it's a really nice modeling of the importance of touch and the integration of technology. And communication. Because Jessica's also communicating to him where she is. She's got her finger on his right scapula there so he knows where she is, off to his right and behind him. >>Edgenie: This is Edgenie. We have a question in the chat asking wouldn't the dog just take him to the pole? >>Amy: Yes. So that -- >>Jessica: That man really wanted to learn the OKO app to have it as a tool. There's nothing wrong with using the dog to get to that APS but some day, you know, that guy wanted to just know some other options too, so he had that as a backup. That's why we were working on that. >>Edgenie: Thank you. >>Heather: This is Hex here. Yes. That is so true. And a lot of times -- I do want to clarify. You've got the pole that the mini guide is leading you to works. That dog can find a pole. Honestly I'm going to be vulnerable here. I don't know exactly like, yeah, how much the dogs do and know that. >>Jessica: Yes. Guide dogs are trained to find the APS. Yes, they are. >>Heather: So nice. I love that. >>Amy: This is Amy. From what I understand also the dog has to be taught that that's an important landmark and reinforced by their handler, by the traveler. So the traveler is still really working with the dog as a tool. But it's like Jessica said. He did want to learn how to use the mini guide in addition to have that information. And I noticed that his hand is not quite on the harness right now because he's having to use his hand for the vibratory feedback with the APS. So there's a lot going on with Deafblind travelers and I think it would be a really interesting study to talk with Deafblind travelers about how they work with their dog guides differently. I do know that not all schools, not all guide dog schools will accept Deafblind travelers. We know that leader dog and perhaps one other entity -- I don't think it's Seeing Eye. I'm going to misquote what other guide dog mobility school accepts Deafblind travelers. But it is a different process. There's a lot of communication and coordination that's having to go on with the Deafblind traveler. So I think the mini guide is just one other tool to integrate into this whole complex system of making decisions about mobility. >>Jessica: This is Jessica here. I would encourage you all if you want guide dogs for the Deafblind, it's important to learn those cane skills first before you ever get a guide dog. You've got to get those cane skills down first. >>Heather: Hex here. That's really true. MaryAnn said something that dogs do get sick sometimes and they might need time off and there might be a time without a dog. Okay. So here we have the next slide. Perspectives of Deafblind children. And that's going to be guided by Jessica. >>Jessica: Okay. Let me make sure my screen is good here. Okay. So this is perspectives of Deafblind children. And we've done research with two other of my classmates from Portland State University. And our topic was Deafblind touch-based theories and what is really important for our children. So I researched through my mentor at the Deaf school and we did research interviews with five different Deafblind high schoolers, one middle school student, and one elementary Deafblind student. And so they were exploring with O&M lessons how they learn and develop their perspectives and their -- what impacts their confidence. And some things that were helpful to their learning was real-world practice and hands-on learning. Many students expressed that when they were training in their environment, they really wanted to learn out in the community, like at the stores and to help apply their learning to their everyday situation, so they didn't want to just stay in the school. They wanted mastery of their cane skills, learning how to use the cane and feeling really proud of themselves. One high school student mentioned that their cane gave them this feeling that they could independently travel. It helped them be a lot more independent. And one elementary student said that the cane was just really helpful for those tactile and sensory cues. Some use that cane and they still needed some help to continue and use that good, nice, consistent cane arc. Considerations for safety and how those impact the O&M lesson was scanning for safety. Avoiding cars and those changes in the terrain. And using that cane to just avoid danger. So for the tactile and sensory cues, some students found that the sensory feedback was really important to learn. One example was a high school student really preferred practicing in a quiet environment because a lot of noise was so distracting to them. So they wanted to practice first in a quiet environment. One student loved that APS. They really loved that. It helped them make the best decision of when to cross. Okay. Now we're going to go over to those key takeaways. The importance of consistent practice. Most of the group said that consistent practice was what helped them progress in their skills and identification and learning, you know, when to cross, being able to try multiple times and being able to veer and that consistent practice to learn how to master things like the stairs, being able to do those consistently and repetitively. Cane techniques. During a regular O&M lesson really helped develop that confidence, to continue improving. Personalized learning preferences, the feedback we got was a lot of students preferred tactile cues or that tactile presence helped them feel more comfortable and more flexible with them. Building independence through cane mastery. Students really felt a boost in self-esteem when they were able to use that cane independently and they could scan their environment and identify safe ways to travel and barriers to avoid and really improve their mobility. Safety and route selection. Several students shared with us that they learned how to scan safely and appropriately and it's really important for their training and developing when they can feel more safe for everyday travel, if they know the routes they're selecting. Okay. So I'll pass it over to Hex now. >>Heather: Jessica, I love this so much. I love everything about all of this. Really, I think that they were aware of the risks. When students are aware of the risks, that means they can consider their options. I think that's great for them to be aware -- the fact that they are aware of the risks is a really big consideration. So they can consider their other options. And I love that tactile presence and tactile communication helps them feel more comfortable and safer. That's such a huge thing, I think. I've heard of situations where a Deafblind student is walking alone but they are unsure and they'll start looking back or they'll be like, where is everyone? They are unsure if people are still with them. So sometimes that staying in contact is really important. They know you are there. You are present. Even if -- sometimes you can do a little bit of a tactile kind of "good job." I think that's a great thing to be able to give them that feedback in the moment. And I do want to point out that consistent practice opportunities, we really need to encourage and be mindful and make sure that our students' teams offer plenty of opportunities for practice on their own and things that they already know that they can do. We need to make sure that teams are letting them do all those things. They can do it, that's how they should practice it from then on. Edgenie, did you want to add something? >>Edgenie: This is Edgenie. I know this will not be a surprise to anybody who knows me, but I would say that this is a really poignant reason why we need to bring families in and make sure that they are aware of what is being taught during orientation and mobility lessons so that this consistent practice can happen in the community in really natural ways and within the context of family life. >>Heather: Uh-huh. Thank you, Edgenie. Exactly right. I'm a family member myself and, you know, yes, that's so right. So that leads us to our next video. The slide. I'm going to talk about the slide really quickly. I'll introduce this video. This is my son. This is Orion and he is at home in this video. He is laying. He's chilling on the bed. He's there with his dad. And he has a little white cane. I'm going to give a little background info here. I ordered this through NFB, the National Federation of the Blind. They have their free white cane program. I did this when he was 2 or 3 years old. He was not walking at that point and so he wasn't using the cane for walking. But he could still use it for information gathering. He was getting information about his environment. You do not have to be standing or walking to get information through the cane. And so with that, let's go ahead and play this video. [Video] All right. Yes. I want to mention I was thinking it's almost like a huge truncated dome he's got there that he found there. He found one giant truncated dome. [Laughter] But Orion was playing and learning about the cane. He's been doing that since he was 2 or 3 years old. And he was learning a lot about the handle and how to handle and control that grip and what works and what doesn't work. So he learned a lot of the characteristics of the cane and accidentally finding out what the cane, you know, some things he could find around there. Back in the beginning it was a lot of trial and error. Now he's a lot more intentional with the cane. He's 14. He's very intentional with his cane but this was playing around and finding out things. Proud of this guy. Okay. Let's check on the next slide. >>Amy: This is Amy speaking. Some of you may be thinking -- and I have actually heard some of my students say this. I don't use sign language. I don't know sign language. I don't know how I could work with somebody who is Deafblind. And you may have students who are -- they're not communicating with a formal language system. They're mainly communicating behaviorally. Well, this student that you'll see in this very short video clip touches integrated in this video clip and the team is using speech communication with him. But they're still integrating the use of touch and, later, tactile sign language. This is another one of my students who is now a certified orientation and mobility specialist. And they were experimenting with him about ways to not interrupt him while he was traveling. So this is the other thing that happens in the research too, in talking with orientation and mobility specialists and in talking with Deafblind people, when they're positioned on a street corner or when they're positioned to move forward or when they're on the route, to stop them and to break their concentration and communicate with them in a tactile format or in an auditory format can also be really disruptive to them as they're learning that route. Or as they're making decisions. That's why Jessica's position in those videos was so important to point out and the ways she was communicating tactually. Here you can see in this brief clip one of my students communicating tactually with a traveler and not interrupting him. [Video] >>Keep going straight. >>Amy: So she says the word "Keep going straight." I'm playing it again. It's very short. Keep going straight. And we have several videos of this. He's using an AMD device, as you see. He's got hearing aid. So she's saying to him "Keep going straight." Keeping the message simple while he's on his route. And giving him that feedback of "go straight" while standing behind him. She also, in other video clips, gives him encouragement, confirmation as he's walking, and also gives him direction about turning left or turning right and making those symbols on his back. And so this is, that tapping is egocentrically orienting to him as a traveler. It's not him having to think about going straight. That's the natural direction his body is going. Or the prompt to turn left or the prompt to turn right is based on his orientation and his pathway of travel. And so that was really helpful to this traveler. And he also has that security, as we've mentioned, that he knows where she is. She's with him. She's behind him and he's on his route and he's doing exactly what he should do. He gets that confirmation. I'm going to go to the next slide and turn it back over to Hex. >>Heather: Yes. And I realize that's -- time is up. Oh, my goodness! We have so many great things happening. Just a little bit left. But I will go ahead and start our wrap-up with this. You know, our hour is almost done. But really we want to talk about the implications on practice. From what we've seen. So we'll talk about horizontal transmission of culture and ideas. You know how, for example, there's vertical transmission. That's parents sending the message on to their children and so on generationally. There's also that horizontal, that means it's happening peer-to-peer, through the community, people who are the same age, student to student, adult to adult, including Deafblind to Deafblind. And the benefits of that are so many. They are in it together. If you can do it, I can do it. We go through the same things. It really makes you feel really more capable when you're doing it peer-to-peer. There's nothing like another Deafblind person doing it and sharing that with you. And you see that and you're like, oh, man, I can do it. Trust is so important. It's the foundation of everything. Some of us take -- how should I say this? It is important to take the time to build that trust and that rapport and relationship with any student or client. Especially the younger ones. It's okay if it takes a long time to get them to play with you, right? Or to work with you at all. Building that trust and taking the time for that is so important. It's going to set you up so much better and build a really strong foundation for the future. Communication of course is so important. It's everything. It's figuring out how that student communicates and meeting them where they are. Getting used to using different styles together and different senses together. Like Jessica mentioned, some students prefer to practice in a quiet environment. So consider all of those different sensory things. And, lastly, just respecting and listening to your students and clients. And that includes letting them do things independently. And that is a sign of respect that Jessica mentioned before. It's a sign of respect, really letting them do things independently and seeing how they do it. And that's really important.