Getting Started with UEB This video is posted online with the following chapter markers: Chapter 1. What is UEB? - A brief introduction to the braille system and the calls for a Unified English Braille code. Chapter 2. UEB Principles - Six principles considered in the creation of UEB. Chapter 3. UEB Changes - Some of key changes in the braille code with introduction of UEB. Chapter 4. UEB Vocabulary - Understanding the terms used in the UEB system will help in learning and transcribing the code. Chapter 5. Implementing UEB - Some tips and resources to help teachers and students transition to UEB. Chapter 6. Questions & Answers - Questions from webinar participants. Getting Started with UEB Transcript ^B00:00:05 [ Slide start: ] [ Background music ] Narrator: Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired Outreach Programs present Getting Started with the UEB. Presented by Sue Mattson and Jeri Cleveland. Chapter 1. What is UEB? [ Slide end: ] Sue: My name is Sue Mattson, I'm a braille transcriber/adapted materials specialist here at TSBVI. Jeri: And I'm Jeri Cleveland, and I'm a teacher that works in curriculum at TSB, also. Kate: I'm so glad that you all are both here today. Sue: Thank you, Kate. No doubt, all of us have read Louis Braille's story of his remarkable work developing a reading and writing system. Braille is a most amazing code that is used across many, many languages worldwide. Even though languages differ greatly, those 63 braille characters serve the same purpose of providing access to print for braille readers around the world. And even with all of our technological advances today, braille is still a vital component of literacy for people who are blind. [ Slide start: ] In the late 1800s, and early 1900s, the U.S. had not standardized braille [ Slide start: ] code. Several systems of reading and writing were used during this period of time from Boston Line Type, which has been described as embossed angular Roman letters to the New York Point System, and then Braille, [ Slide end: ] but it wasn't until 1932 that the U.S. officially adopted standard English Braille. This period of time sometimes referred to as the war of the dots, was a time of turmoil, confusion and hard feelings. For the good of our students and their educational development, it is something that we don't want to replicate as we move towards implementing UEB. We may feel overwhelmed at the prospect of learning a new braille code, but let's keep at the forefront the thought of how important this is for our students. Now, if you are interested in reading more about this interesting time in the history of braille, in the U.S., please read Robert B. Irwin's book The War Of The Dots. The unified code was first recommended to the Braille Authority of North America in a letter by Doctors Abraham Nemeth and Tim Cranmer. With the development of the computer braille code with its own set of symbols, they believed that a developed -- that the development of a unified braille code was needed to address this issue of multiple codes. We had the literary braille code, the Nemeth braille code and the computer braille code. The problem was a result of each code having their own set of symbols for commonly used print signs and punctuation. For example, each code has a different symbol for the dollar sign, and each has its own separate set of punctuation, like the period or the comma. So a committee began working on this project and it didn't take too long, of course, for differences of opinion to develop into real controversy. This prolonged the development of the code and resulted in the development of two codes. A new course was set for the future of the -- by the Braille authority of North America, when they voted in November of 2012 to adopt the Unified English Braille Code known as UEB because our industry seems to love acronyms. [ Laughter ] [ Slide start: ] In the United States, we will use the Unified English Braille Code for literary braille and the Nemeth braille code will be retained for math and science. [ Slide end: ] Now, the official date for implementation will be January 4th, 2016, which is just a little over a year from now. So what do we need to know? Having spent a great deal of time over the past three years, reading everything I could on this code and its development, and the code itself, I would like to share my perspective of it with you. [ Slide start: ] I have found it much easier to learn if as soon as I started to regard it as a new Braille code. It is not English Braille American Edition, or EBAE, with just a few changes. There's a logic to this code which will be missed entirely if we rely only on comparison documents that are really readily available. [ Slide end: ] I also found that attending a workshop to be a good start but it wasn't adequate to reinforce the new rules and philosophy behind the code. Regular practice and study was necessary to really reinforce the rules for me. Just as when we learned EBAE, it took study and practice to learn the code to become comfortable with the rules and when and how they were applied. I found that UEB requires the same level of study and practice, but it has paid off. So think about it like this: Today many cars look alike, so it's sometimes difficult to tell them apart. We can compare color, size, you know they all have four tires, doors and windows. But we really don't know much about the car itself or are able to distinguish one from another until we really get under the hood. So don't just settle for kicking the tires, but let's get under the hood and see what this code is all about. You know, and remember, relax and have fun. We're all going to make mistakes as we go through that part of the learning process and guess what? Our students are going to catch us, too. Chapter 2. UEB Principles UEB was developed on six foundational principles, and according to the rules of Unified English Braille, the second edition, 2013, UEB is -- was based on these six principles. And they include some things that you already know, but others you may not be familiar with. [ Slide start: ] For instance, we know it's based on a 6-dot cell, just as our current code is. It also incorporates grade 1 and grade 2, and it uses most of the commonly known contractions. It's readable by both beginners and very fluent braille readers. It was designed to be -- to be what they call computable. In other words, it was designed to work with computers, Braille notes and refreshable braille displays. [ Slide end: ] I had the opportunity last week to hear a college student discuss just how well this code can be forward and backwards translated by himself. This code was designed to support more independent, on-the-fly production of braille [ Slide start: ] by readers themselves; which fosters independence. [ Slide start: ] Remember, UEB was developed as a unified code that included literary, mathematics and the computer braille code. Although the U.S. will continue to use Nemeth, other English speaking countries that have also adopted this code will be using it for math and science as well. Currently, there are eight other countries -- eight other English speaking countries that have officially adopted this code. [ Slide end: ] So keep in mind, when studying the manual, you may see words and phrases that are unfamiliar or usage that seems unusual. Remember, that when this code was developed all English braille codes were considered in its development, and it is also being used at the same time by all these other countries. We've already mentioned that it integrates well with technology, but also know that Duxbury is, and has been, very capable of translation into UEB for years. In the near future it will be incorporate -- in the near future we will be incorporating Duxbury training into our braille production training here at TSBVI. [ Slide start: ] Due to advances in technology, the printed page has changed tremendously over the years. UEB is capable of producing a more accurate representation of the print the page. Remember, we were rather limited with what we could do with our current code and how many times have you translated a worksheet that contains some kind of text attribute that was important for the student to know, but was either difficult or almost impossible to express in braille. UEB allows this through the use of indicators. In addition to having clear symbols, for italics, bold and underlining, we also have indicators for phrases. We will now have indicators, the capital phrase indicator, the italics phrase indicator and there are also bold phrase and underlined phrase indicators. [ Slide end: ] Think about a phrase or a passage that's written in print in all caps. Currently, we would add double caps to every word in that passage or paragraph. Having a capital phrase indicator, and the use of the termination sign at the end of it, makes this much easier, and is really quite a space saving technique, as well. In UEB, indicators are also used to change modes. For example, a mode change is needed when switching from grade 2 to grade 1, if it's within the same document, and we're already very familiar with mode changes. We currently use the number indicator and that's one we all knew -- know and use and have for many years. Jeri. Chapter 3. UEB Changes Jeri: And I'm going to talk to you about some habit busters. We have some new rules to learn and a lot of old habits to break. [ Slide start: ] It's a two‑part deal. So, say goodbye to some of the contractions that are familiar to us. [ Slide end: ] They don't exist in UEB. We have to break the habit of writing them, especially, and I've started thinking of them as the Naughty Nine. [ Laughter ] [ Slide start: ] Jeri: So to, into and by the low F to and then the way we write in and to together and then the low J by are all gone. The B-L-E, the C-O-M, the double d, so that's the low d in the middle of words, and that's gone because it could be confused with being a period in something like an email address. A-T-I-O-N and A-L-L-Y are gone, and that's because they could be confused with capital letters in the middle of words, because UEB has made provision for doing that pretty smoothly. [ Slide end: ] O'CLOCK is gone, and that's one of my favorites. So I'm going to have to have a funeral for it. [ Laughter ] Jeri: Spacing is the next thing. UEB puts following print above saving space on the braille page. Following print parts, that means it also puts accessibility to print above saving space on a braille page. This is a new idea for us. We'll all have to get used to that concept. It's exciting to me as a braille reader. I like having more information. There are no more snuggle, cuddle, buddy or other cute little words because there are no more of those contractions. There's going to be a space between our words and besides we've gotten rid of to, into and by. So anything that snuggles doesn't snuggle anymore. We're going to have to space between a, an, with, of, the -- [ Music playing on phoneline ] and I did a funny little skip-a-roo. Oh, for, there it is. And for. Those can't snuggle together. Remember, to, into and by are gone. No snuggling there, I think that I already said that. For now my hand braille documents have lots of erasures because of these habits that I have ingrained, and we'll just have to keep plugging away on them. [ Slide start: ] UEB is like the astronaut in the picture on this slide. It's not us, it's that braille just needs more space. [ Slide end: ] Crossing the great divide. If you've ever gone across -- physically driven or ridden or walked across the great divide in North America where the water splits, to either go East or go West; that's the point where it happens, and then all the rest of the water on the continent flows primarily in that direction, towards one ocean or the other. It feels like a momentous occasion. You're high up. You can look down both sides somewhat. And it's just kind of amazing. [ Slide start: ] UEB allows for more contractions to go across syllables. So we're crossing that great divide. It seems like a pretty big deal to me, too. [ Slide end: ] For one thing, we all worked really hard on learning which -- which things could cross syllables and which things couldn't. And which kinds of syllables could be crossed and which kinds couldn't. So we have to -- we have to learn new rules and break our old habits. [ Slide start: ] Here's some examples, you can use the ea in the middle of acreage, you can use the ed in boredom, which looks like bore‑edom to me now. I'll have to get used to it. We can use the ness sign in lioness, and the bb in ebbing, and we can use the dot 5 in teatime. [ Slide end: ] I think we all need to move to England so we can write teatime because it's going to be cute. [ Laughter ] Jeri: So this is just a taste, there are more. Fortunately, there are just a few rules to learn and then in Appendix 1 of the manual there's a list. That is not true, that's for short forms. New for Short Form Words. This is about having permission to be just a little bit bad, because Short Form Words can be used as parts of longer words as long as they do not cause confusion. So there are a couple of rules to learn about that, and then in Appendix 1 there's a list of the words that you can use. So, again, UEB is relaxing some of the things on using contractions across syllables. And you're going to find it a surprise to see some of the things in words that haven't been allowed before, [ Slide start: ] but look at the ones that we all want to do and I bet your kids did, too. Friendly, you should just be able to write F-R-L-Y and now you can. Q-K-E-R for quicker, repaid, aboveboard, grandchildren, and firstaid. [ Slide end: ] Those feel natural mostly, which is kind of nice. As I learned UEB, in general, it's easier for me to read it, than it is to write it. Mostly because of habits. All right you guys, settle down over there. [ Laughter ] Sue: I just saw an error I made. Jeri: Oh. [ Laughter ] Jeri: But in this section, it's easier for me to write it than it is to read it. Chapter 4. UEB Vocabulary Okay, let's talk about some vocabulary. It's really going to be really important for you to learn some major words in UEB. It pays to learn the language anywhere you go. So there you are. The authors of UEB reframed some familiar words and then added some unfamiliar words to help us understand the structure and the logic, and it really is pretty elegant. Again, it's a matter of changing your mindset. A Wordsign is a contraction that represents a word; a whole word. Another way to say that is that it's a letter combination that can represent a whole word. There are alphabetic Wordsigns like can, but and do. There are old whole and part words that we already know, like and, for, of, the. There are lower cell words that we know like be, enough and were. So those are going to be fairly easy, but think of them as Groupsign, as opposed to those old categories, because you've already seen that you get to do a little more fooling around with things in UEB. You get to cross syllables more. You're going to get some perks and you're going to understand them easier if you learn the words. [ Slide start: ] A Groupsign is a contraction that represents a group of letters, which is kind of obvious. The bigger definition is that its letter combinations that when you join them with other letters take on a group sign meaning. [ Slide end: ] A good example of that is children because you've got the ch contraction, it's a Groupsign, you're putting it with an n and making children, so it's taken on that meaning for children. Ch, gg, sh, th, wh and a bunch more can be used as Groupsigns. Another vocabulary word to know is strong. And strong is one of the major -- strong and weak contractions or letters or signs, everything, in UEB is either strong or weak. A strong symbol, or wordsign or groupsign, has dots in both the top and the bottom rows of the cells. So it can't just be a middle dot, a middle thing like C-O-N, that would not be strong. [ Slide start: ] It also has to have dots in both the left and the right hand parts of the cells. So an l would be... kind of strong because it has the top and bottom, but it can't be really strong because it doesn't have both columns represented. Here's some more vocabulary, if you are not already fried. [ Laughter ] [ Slide end: ] [ Slide start: ] We've already talked about Indicators a little bit and Indicators are braille [ Slide start: ] signs that tell us something about the following characters, and how they are interpreted. They might change the meaning of characters or they also might change the aspect of the text or the Mode. And we've already talked a little bit about Modes. There's not a definition for Mode, but it's like Sue said, it's grade 1 is a Mode, grade 2 is a Mode, math is a Mode and you will use that even though another going to teach Nemeth, because there are math symbols that appear in literary braille sometimes. The use of Modes helps us determine the meaning of some of the braille symbols that can mean different things in different Modes. So the Mode indicators are important, and that is what starts the mode, the indicator let's you know, here comes grade 1, here comes math. Bridging describes all the syllable crossing we've been talking about already. The term for it is Bridging, and that means it's a use of a contraction across a division between syllables. [ Slide end: ] Okay, let's just step back and take a deep breath. I have only thrown you a few examples of some of the changes that are coming. You can see that it's interesting if you are a braille -- braille fanatic, you're going to find it interesting like I do, and you can see that it is going to take some study. So first of all, it's okay to be sad about leaving EBAE. We intend to have a funeral. [ Laughter ] We do. We intend to put up grave stones with our favorites that are going away. Remember that we're all in this together. Reach out to your friends. Study together, ask for help figuring something out. Compare notes from the manual. Don't be an island and do this by yourself. Relax! Of course we're all going to make mistakes, Sue's already said that. And of course our students are going to catch them. That's their job, and I think they should be rewarded for their knowledge and for their careful reading. Don't you agree? [ Slide start: ] One more time, learn the vocabulary. You've to learn to speak the language -- speak UEB. Set aside time for regular study and practice. [ Slide end: ] We all just have time oozing out of our ears, so I know that's going to be so easy, she says very sarcastically, [ Laughter ] but learning does keep us young. It's an important part of what we do. Sue: OK Kate, I think you were going to put up another poll. Kate: I will do that Jeri: So sorry. Sue: Oh, that's okay. And while she's doing that, I just want to make a comment for those of you that maybe caught that error in one of Jeri's slides, that was done by me. [ Laughter ] Sue: I take all credit for that. Firstaid was incorrect. The st contraction should have been used along with aid. So you see it's very easy to do. Kate: Was it done in UEB? Sue: Yes. Kate: At least you were doing it in UEB. So that's good. Chapter 5. Implementing UEB Sue: Yes, it was supposed to be UEB. So, continuing, let's not get too bogged down with areas we can't control. There are lots of people and agencies across the state also busy doing their part. It's important that each of us develop a personal study plan and learn the code. Our students are going to do just fine if we are well prepared, plus we're going to feel better and more confident ourselves. [ Slide start: ] And become familiar with the resources and look for others, new ones are coming available all the time. I also want to address that concerns are being talked about and addressed [ Slide end: ] [ Slide start: ] on issues ranging from statewide assessments, textbooks and training. These issues are important and information will be made available as decisions are made. [ Slide end: ] Individually, as teachers and transcribers, we have a crucial role to play in preparing ourselves by learning this code. We're going to provide a list of resources that we have found useful for you at the end of this presentation. We started to discuss an implementation plan here at TSBVI just a little over a year ago, and some of the highlights of our plan we thought we would share with you today. We decided we wanted our students' introduction to UEB to be a very positive experience, and thought the best way to achieve this was through recreational reading material or library books. We wanted them to see the code in a more relaxed setting with books they want to read, and not just spring it on them in a textbook in the classroom. And we've started this process by beginning to produce a few library books in UEB. We will also make the files available on our website as they're ready, but probably don't look for that until sometime after the first of the year. It's kind of slow going right now. [ Slide start: ] Also, Jeri and I are going to begin more formal training for teachers and staff here at TSBVI in January of 2015, and that's just a couple of months from now. Also, we're planning a Braille celebration in January of 2016. After all, this is a huge, historic event for our braille readers and we want to highlight its historical importance for our students. [ Slide end: ] For this is truly a once in a lifetime event and our students should proudly remember this throughout their lives. That they were here when it -- when it occurred. Kate: Sue, is this when we will bury the old braille code? Sue: Well, not entirely. [ Laughter ] Because all textbooks aren't going to be replaced at one time. It's going to be kind of a gradual demise of our current code. Kate: Okay. Sue: But one of the things that came up last week at the state stakeholders meeting, people discussed the possibility of this big event becoming kind of statewide. Several thought it should be like White Cane Day, and we would be pleased to hear ideas from others across the state and would love to know what you think or how you think this might -- might happen. So please contact us. Jeri. Jeri: Seize the day! Actively choose to keep a positive attitude about our new braille code. Change is hard, but it's often for the better. UEB was designed to work more smoothly in our technology -- technologically advanced world. That's a need. We've already been struggling with that. The back translation, I know there are kids out in our state who are changing their Nemeth code so that their teacher will get something that's readable for their homework. That's awesome that our kids can do that, but so sad that they even have to, and hopefully this will help with that eventually, because now people are working really hard on back translation for Nemeth as well. UEB will increase access to more information on the printed -- in printed materials. You know, there are going to be kids for whom a highlighted word is more information than they really can handle. Those kids have more special needs, usually, than just VI or they're really young and are still working on things. A lot of children will really, really enjoy and feel more included if they know which words are the red highlighted words, and can say, "Oh, yeah, well the next one is on page 3, turn your page and you'll find it." That's kind of a really important inclusion thing. [ Slide start: ] Opportunity. This is an opportunity for us to improve our own braille reading, to improve our braille teaching and to improve production. We kind of get a new leash on braille -- a new lease on braille and we can take it and run with it. [ Slide end: ] NLS materials are going to be made available. They have a series of lessons going, that eventually is going to be a transcription course, and we can all sign up and take the lessons. I've always sort of wanted to be -- have my certification as a TVI. Didn't you always secretly want to as well? [ Slide start: ] Let's talk about some resources. Sue has really worked hard at collecting and exploring some of them, I've explored a few of them myself. [ Slide end: ] So check these out. First, there are training materials being produced in Canada and the U.K. and Australia. So don't just stop at our borders. [ Slide start: ] The Rules of Unified English Braille is the name of our new manual and it's a must have. CNIB, in Canada, has created a transcriber's course, and we're hoping that you can do anybody's course, theirs or the one from Australia, and get certified, or the ones that we create eventually, and get certified in any of the English speaking countries, have it count, [ Slide end: ] but even if that's not so, the lessons in the Canadian version are worth working through. It's another place to find instruction and practice. The Australian online course is reported to be excellent. It's one that I haven't looked into, but Sue has. It's getting rave reviews. [ Slide start: ] Also, finally, BANA's website, I hope you already have it bookmarked on your computer because they're always coming up with updates and they often have resources. They often tell about resources from other sites as well. [ Slide end: ] Sue: Kate, would you -- could you kind of tell us the results of our poll? And I think we have -- right before we close -- Kate: We've got another one to share, and I'll bring up the rest of them so we can take a look at them and talk about them. Let me get the newest poll up first. This is the third one, and you guys go ahead and vote on that one and I'll bring the other polls up to discuss. Chapter 6. Questions & Answers So Sue and Jeri, it looks like that a good number of folks, 9 out of 13 folks, have attended some type of formal training on UEB. I think that's -- pretty cool. Jeri: Excellent. Awesome. Sue: Yeah. Truly is. Kate: And then it looks like 13 of these folks would be interested in an online study group, and one of the things I'd kind of like to hear from folks, if they wouldn't mind putting a note or two in the chat as we go along, if they have like preferred dates or preferred times of day, that kind of information really helps us in trying to plan for the future and plan when we might offer a study group like that. And I know that every -- that braillists have kind of a different dance card than a lot of other people. So if you don't mind, those of you who would, either unmute your mics by pressing star 6, and just tell us and we'll take some notes, or type it in the chat that's in the pod in the lower right‑hand corner and let us know times of day, days of week, if you have a preference for any of those; it would be good information as we start planning because we'll be doing our planning in January, I'm sure, for next year. And we might even try to work a few in for the remainder of this year. I don't know. So we just need to know what your needs are. Sue: I see people already answering that in the chat. Would these sessions be recorded so if someone could not attend it live, that they would still be able to keep up with the group? Kate: We certainly could do that -- I don't think that would be any problem to do that if we do them on webinar or if we do them on TETN. I favor doing webinars because I think they are a lot more accessible to more people. Sue & Jeri: Yes. Kate: So I would prefer to do it in a webinar, but we certainly can record them and archive them. Sue: We're seeing a lot of 3 o'clock times. So I think we're probably getting close -- Jeri: Getting a clue. Sue: And I also see at least half of those that participated in the poll on visiting the websites with UEB resources, so that is very good. And I would recommend, as Jeri said, that everybody download, and at least keep on your computer, if you don't print it out, but it's -- The Rules of Unified English Braille. That is, now, our main text for braille. That's the one where you may see a few things, from time to time that look a little bit unusual, but keep in mind that this code is being used across eight different countries right now. Kate: Well, let me ask you this, I have a question because I'm really totally uninformed about braille, you know. I don't know old braille, I don't know new braille, but I would think that as by having the code more uniform, it would be a real advantage to individuals that are getting stuff and converting it into braille off of the website because they'll have access to sort of a global, literally a global set of things they can access; whereas, before they might not have. Sue: Right, and that is true. Not only can files that are already created in this code be more readily shared -- in fact, I'd like to tell people, Jennifer Dunham from the NFB has contacted me, and let me know that BARD has some files in UEB, some books already done, and if your student has a BARD account, you can go in there and download those files and emboss them. What's good about this, those files have all been done in Canada so far. So, they might not be books we're all familiar with, but it's going to be a start to enlarging the amount of material that's readily available in braille. Which I think is really exciting. Jeri: I can't wait. I'm a BARD person. I can go and do that. Kate: That's great. Pat: I got a chat here that I need to read here from Lourdes, "I started teaching a few changes to my students. What confuses me most is what --when to use the different -- what confuses me most to use the different transcriber codes and quotes. They are very specific now. I'm confused when to use them." Kate: So the transition? Pat: Yeah. Kate: Transcriber codes and quotation codes. What do you all have to say about that? Sue: I would have to see exactly what she's talking about before I could make a comment on that. Jeri: Well wait just a second, because the quotes, I think are going to be okay. There's a logic, and if you pay attention to how it works, I think they're nice and consistent, the changes. They're kind of like the grouping signs, in that they -- you know, they have an order of importance and when you -- when you change from a parentheses to a bracket or when you change from a straight quote to a -- I mean a double quote to a single quote, and I'm babbling here, but don't give up on the quotes. I think you can figure it out in the manual, and give us some time on the transcriber's notes. Kate: But those will be things if we did some sort of online course you could really get into the nitty‑gritty and have some practice with it. That would be great. Jeri: Sure. Yes. And when the NLS lessons come out, I think it will be a lot more clear. Kate: And we have another one, from Renee, won't the training materials be different for us if we are not integrating the Nemeth? Sue: No, they really won't be. The manual is set up so that the first part of it is -- is literary material and the end of the manual happens to be technical. But keep in mind, you are still going to have to know some of the technical symbols. Probably quite a few of them. Just because these symbols aren't used to teach math, there are many times when we start to see a plus sign, an equal sign, a minus sign or something like that, a degree symbol, within literary material. So you are going to be using the UEB symbols in this case. I see another question here about the STAAR Assessments, and that's one of those issues that's being taken care of. It's a -- people are well aware of that. They are more than likely going to be available in both codes for as long as that's needed. I also see the question about Duxbury and Scientific Notebook, Duxbury's already got UEB incorporated into it and has for probably about six, seven years, if not a little bit longer. Scientific Notebook, it shouldn't affect that at all, since we're using Nemeth code. You should still be using Scientific Notebook or Math Type the same way you always have. Pat: Here's another question, "The Braille Challenge is talking about only having UEB available for tests starting 2016?. Does anybody know about that?" Sue: Yeah, I've heard that, too, and I think we're just going to have to get -- we're just going to have to get up to speed on this. Kate: There you go. Well, it's an incentive to get everybody going. And Dawn says for a TVI, what would be your number one recommendation for how to get started? I like the library books, but as far as instruction where would you begin? Sue: I would start with either the Canadian course or the Australian course, and the Australian one is online. And you -- with that particular one, you will enter everything either in print, because you're reading UEB, or you will do it in braille, because then you're translating print to braille. So it kind of works both ways, and I think that the Canadian course is also very good, but that's more print based. But with the -- what I liked about the Australian course was you got immediate feedback because the computer responded, if you made a mistake, you saw it immediately. Kate: That's cool. Jeri: I'd like to answer that question, as well, because I understood it as instruction with students as opposed to instruction for yourself. I'm not sure if that's right or wrong, but if that was what you intended, I would start with -- for sure start with your early childhood and beginning braille learners and then I would just start with the library books and go with it. And teach -- teach some of the written, the new written symbols, and there are not a lot at the beginning, but teach some of those to incorporate into their writing, while they're seeing similar symbols in their reading. Kate: Well, it also seems like that might be a nice way for you to begin to learn yourself by starting with your very beginning braille readers and braille writers, and kind of growing along with them, while maybe you're taking one of those courses on the side. That sounds great. Jeri: Which ones of us didn't do that? [ Laughter ] I mean, you know, Nemeth for real, you get a little bit in college, but you really basically learn it while you're teaching it. Kate: Another one says, oh, from Carolyn, "Braille Challenge hasn't made a definite decision yet. They're just discussing it." So that's good feedback. Jeri: Yes. Kate: And then from Lucy, "I am taking the Australian course right alongside one of my students, beginning this week." That's great! What a good way to go. Sue: Very excited about that. Kate: Yeah. Oh, I think that's kind of a cool way to go. And what a motivation for the student to see if they can out distance their teacher, you know, that would be very cool. I like that, I really do. Great comments and questions. [ silence ] Kate: So I'm curious, Sue, have you taken the Australian course, has that been the one you -- Sue: I have been working through that. I have looked, not quite as -- I haven't worked quite -- through quite as much as in the Canadian course, but that one seemed good, too. We have, Jeri and I, and Pat Van Geem have also been working through, we're kind of piloting the National Library Services' transcriber's course. They've allowed us to look the at the first 12 lessons that we're working through, and kind of doing a little bit of proofreading there, also, and I know they are hoping to have it out in January. Kate: Oh, wow! Sue: So, that's not -- that's not far. I know there's a lot of work, it may, you know, possibly be a little later, but I know they would like to meet that deadline. Because everybody knows how important this is, and everybody is working very hard behind the scenes to make materials available for people. Kate: I was just curious when I asked you, too. About how much time are we talking about, to go through one of the online courses? Just a ballpark. I know it varies for every person. Sue: You know a lesson doesn't seem to take that long. I think -- what I would do with the Australian course, would spend probably about an hour or so working on it and having completed a section. Kate: Oh, okay. Sue: So I felt that I had that. And there have been times I have gone back and kind of redone something that I felt I needed, but I've used that in conjunction with the rule book. And I found just reading the rule book is a little bit dry. [ Laughter ] Sue: But... I found that when I went and started working through some of the course material, that when I came back to it, that things made a little more sense to me, and I found myself, then, using the rule book more like a reference book, which is what it's really -- that's really what it's for. Kate: That's cool. Jeri: And I have to say that Sue is brilliant, and if you double the time or sometimes triple it, you're going to be closer to what I take to do one of the lessons, especially if I write the drills and the exercises out; if I braille them out. It's going to take me longer than an hour to do that. Pat: I'm the worst actually, with that. Kate: So Pat, how do you feel about those lessons, does it take you a really long time to do one? Pat: Yeah, it does, but... I think they've been very helpful, very, very helpful. Jeri: I agree, I think they're very good. Sue: Now, before there's any kind of misunderstanding, I'm talking about like getting one section done. That's not the entire -- [ Laughter ] -- let's not have any -- [ Laughter ] Jeri: You mean a section of a lesson? Sue: Yeah. Jeri: Oh, I feel so much better! [ Laughter ] I actually can continue my working relationship with you. [ Laughter ] Sue: No, let's not -- [ Laughter ] Kate: Well, I think when they have the next Braille Challenges, they should have a special event for Teachers of the Visually Impaired who you are struggling to learn UEB, to see how they can compete. Jeri: Good idea. I'm not volunteering for that. [ Laughter ] Sue: We can start the Annual Teacher Challenge. [ Laughter ] Kate: Absolutely. Absolutely. I think that would be terrific. Well, I'd love to hear more comments, questions from our audience. Again, you can -- if you don't want to type, you can just press star 6 and unmute your mics and we will hear your lovely voices, or if you'd rather not, you can put something in the chat. Kate: Cyral says, "I really appreciate the positive approach that you are all modeling. I have put off starting to really dig into UEB, maybe emboldened now to dive deeper." [ laughter ] We certainly hope that everyone comes away from this -- I am not involved in this at all. You know, for me, I just get to sit back and watch, and it does seem like there's a lot of fear and trembling about the shift, and I feel reassured from -- by hearing what the two of you have said, because I know that, you know, you all have had your concerns as well as anybody about how this is going to work out. And it seems like as you are moving forward and kind of learning more and getting into it, that you all are not feeling quite as panicked about it. You know? And you're beginning to see some light at the end of the tunnel there. Sue: Oh, definitely. And I think that, you know, if we all look at this -- this is truly going to be a historic event; this change in code. And, you know, we're all going to be part of this -- the history of this. So it's really a great time, and I think we need to focus on that, rather than getting too bogged down with what we think are going to be the difficulties. Yeah, there's going to be -- you know, we're going to stumble along at times, but it's not going to be a problem because we're all in it together. Kate: Yeah, and that's true, that is really true. And I know that each of the Service Centers are already, you know, looking at how to collaborate and share and support, you know, the districts, and I know that TSBVI feels like we are a part of that mix, and so when you look at our site we have a real huge number of people to help other people do it, you know? So I don't think it will be quite as traumatic as it might be for other places around the country. Seriously. Sue: And, you know, the other thing that always gives me heart is as we've had students look at books. I have not had one of them tell me that they couldn't read the book. Kate: Wow. Sue: That -- you know, occasionally they might say they kind of, you know, a parentheses or something threw them off for a second, but as soon as they caught it, that was it. And so I don't think we're going to see any kind of huge problems with students. I think they're going to get it faster than we do. Kate: I think that will be true. Jeri: In the very first Henry and Mudge book that you did, Sue, I read it, and then I had to go look at the symbol page to confirm that there really were new things, because I just read it automatically. And of course, it is not a complicated book, but that was pretty impressive to me that it was so -- so already user friendly, if you were a braille reader. And I think that they really strove for that. They've emphasized that, when they've talked about it, the BANA board members, when they've talked about it in meetings. And I want to say again, to please don't get overwhelmed, and take baby steps and, you know, you're busy, you have a lot to do. But, you know, find small ways to integrate new things here and there. One at a time. One of the things -- This doesn't apply to most people, but one of the baby steps that I've taken is to start producing my presentation notes or any braille that I make in UEB. Kate: Oh, wow. Jeri: I'm not so good at finding the errors, yet, in it, when I add things to what I've already translated, but I'm getting there. Kate: Uh‑huh. Another comment, from Belinda, "I'm excited and hopeful that UEB truly will help teachers and students alike feel more comfortable with technology and translation." And, you know, that's a good point, you know, it sounds like -- [ cough ] excuse me -- what you all have said, is that this really will interface with technology much better. And I'm just curious if you all have, you know -- like Pat, I know you're Mr. Technology, do you have a notion [ cough ] for how that might -- I mean, is it going to be dramatically different or is it just going to -- Pat: No, no. There's going to be some changes, there's good to be -- [ Inaudible ] translation. But as far as the changes go, that's, you know -- it's like what Jeri was saying, I can already read some of that stuff. And a lot of the software already has features that you can change text into UEB Braille. Kate: Perfect, perfect. Well, I certainly appreciate both Sue and Jeri being with us today, and sharing this information and sort of helping us all begin to think about this is not going to be so bad and we're part of history. I like thinking about it that way. And I really would like to hear from all of you guys if you are interested in doing some type of study group on the UEB, you know, think about it, talk with your colleagues, and you can send in infor -- you know, send me an email, let me know. I'll put my email address in the chat so you can see it. And just let me know, you know, your thoughts about doing that and times and dates and anything like that you can think of, but my email address is hurstk, that's H-U-R-S-T-K at T-S-B-V-I dot E-D-U. And so -- you know, if you think about it, like I say, share it with your friends, if they have thoughts about a study group, let us know, and we can -- when we do our planning in January, figure out how we might make that a part of our next dance card. [ Laughter ] Kate: Okay. Any final questions or comments before we wrap this up? Sue: Kate, I would just like to thank everybody for joining us today, and we are pleased to see how many are interested in getting started and being proactive in this. Kate: I agree. Jeri: And we look forward to continuing to have contact with you in working on this together. Kate: And I know both Sue and Jeri are great resources that are very, very generous with their time. So if you get stuck, have a question, you know, even after -- even if we're not on a webinar, I think that you could contact them by email, which is on the handout and they would be happy to try to help out in any way they could -- and we hope to see you again soon. Thanks. Bye!