CVI Study Group 2 This video is posted online with the following chapter markers: Chapter 1. Scoring CVI Range Rating 1 Chapter 2. Future Sessions Chapter 3. Come to SWOMA Description of graphical content is included between Description Start and Description End. Transcript Start Chapter 1. Scoring CVI Range Rating 1 [Silence] [Background music] [Slide start:] (text read by narrator) Narrator: Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired Outreach Programs presents C-V-I Study Group two, October 26, 2015, facilitated by Sara Kitchen, Lynne McAlister, and Ann Rash for T-S-B-V-I. Sara: Hi, everybody, welcome to our second attempt at the CVI Study Group two. And... I'm here with... it's me Sara, and I'm here with Ann Rash and Lynne McAlister. [Slide start:] Description Start: Title: Overview - Scoring the CVI Range Rating 1 Content: • Lynne & Sara’s learning curve with the CVI Range • Scoring Items in Rating 1 • Interpreting Overall Score of Rating 1 Description End: So ... let's talk about scoring the C-V-I range Rating 1. That is what we decided to talk about this time. [Slide end:] Rating 1, if you look at your essential forms on Page 18 ‑‑ Lynne: 187. Sara: At the very end of your book, this one that we all know so well, that is -- that has Rating 1 on it at the very beginning, that's the form that we're going to be talking about today. [Slide start:] Description Start: Title: Overview - Scoring the CVI Range Rating 1 Content: • Lynne & Sara’s learning curve with the CVI Range • Scoring Items in Rating 1 • Interpreting Overall Score of Rating 1 Description End: The things that we're going to talk about during this hour are the learning curve that Lynne and I went through. While we were learning how to do the CVI ratings. But we're also going to look at really closely at scoring the items in Rating 1 and interpreting the overall score of Rating 1. So that seems to be the one that gives people more difficult, so we're really focusing on that one today. [Slide end:] Lynne: It give us a lot of difficulty. Sara: Thus the learning curve. [ Laughter ] So... what Lynne and I have found out -- when we went to training, we often saw people using the resolution chart, but we didn't really see anybody going into depth on Rating 1, so we just followed suit and wrote all of our information directly on the resolution chart. And we found the general range where students were functioning that way and we weren't too far off for the most part, but when we did go back and use Rating 1, we found that our scores were much more exact and that Rating 1 was really helpful when we were planning the assessments. [Slide start:] Description Start: Title: Lynne & Sara’s learning curve Content: • Resolution Chart vs. Rating 1 & 2 • Use Rating 1 after first two steps (Interview, Observation) to help plan the assessment. After assessment Rating 1 can be completed. • Parent Interview is a conversation. • Collaborate, if possible! Description End: Lynne: Right, we found that we hadn't looked at a lot of things... Sara: Yeah. Lynne: ...that were not even, you know, covered on the resolution chart. Sara: Right. Lynne: Resolution chart is much broader. [Slide end:] And Rating 1 is very exact. It's very finely detailed, so it takes a while to do, but it's really in‑depth and it's going to give you a lot of really good information. Sara: Yes. So the way we have used it, that -- to help with planning the assessment, is that we gathered the information from parents and... then we also gathered the information from an observation and we videoed our observations. [Slide start:] Description Start: Title: Lynne & Sara’s learning curve Content: • Resolution Chart vs. Rating 1 & 2 • Use Rating 1 after first two steps (Interview, Observation) to help plan the assessment. After assessment Rating 1 can be completed. • Parent Interview is a conversation. • Collaborate, if possible! Description End: And that information we recorded on to Rating 1 under the column -- if you look at Rating 1, there is a column that is marked with an O at the top. There's one that's marked with an I at the top. O for is observation, [Slide end:] I is for interview, and then there's the D for direct assessment. So if you go through and you get all of the information that you've received so far, you can highlight anything that you haven't covered yet... Lynne: Right. Sara: ...and you can use that and make sure that you cover that when you do your direct assessment. Lynne: Right. And so like what we found when we did it was we didn't -- certain things that they asked on the Rating 1, you know, we didn't have any observations of that. The parent hadn't spoken to anything about that, it was like mirrors and, you know, very discrete information, and then we were able to at that point, "Okay we need to bring a mirror in, let's look at mirrors and do that." Sara: There was one student we didn't check mirrors with [multiple voices] Lynne: Our first student, we waited until we had all of the video and information, then we sat down with Rating 1 and we were like, "Oh, we didn't do this, we didn't even check this." We just had to skip it. So, you know, then we learned oh, you always start Rating 1 before you do the direct assessment. Just to make sure that you fill in any of the holes. Sara: Uh‑huh. Another really important thing that we want to stress is that you can gather so much information from the parent interview -- and the more information that you have from the parent interview and from your observation -- the less time you have to spends on the direct assessment, thus tiring out your student or the less sessions that you have to do, if you already have much more complete information. Parents are such an invaluable resource when it comes to characteristics of C-V-I. Because they're the ones who have known this person since they were little and they probably have seen changes in their vision already. So the parent interview is so important. Do you guys want to add anything to that? Lynne: Yeah, I think if you just give it to the parent, send it home with the parent to fill out, it may have a question of, like, do they like to stare at ceiling fans. The parent might say no. You get those one word answers: Yes, no. If you are not having a conversation, you would miss that whole part where the parent said oh, they used to do that all the time, but now they don't do that so they have marked down no. You have missed that whole piece -- Sara: It may be resolved in that area... Lynne: Right. Ann: Well, and there's not enough explanation of why you are asking the question. So if you do the parent interview, even if it's -- if it's by phone, then you can say, "We know" or "I know that your child has a visual impairment and I may be asking how he looks at things. And you may wonder, well, but my child doesn't see well so why are you asking me questions about how does he look at things." And you can explain that there are characteristics that you are looking for and that -- at home when things are maybe quieter or the lighting is different, than in a school setting, or somewhere else, you might have different behaviors than what we see in busy, loud, school classrooms. Sara: Absolutely. And if you are able to be in the home with the parent, that can be really informative, too, because if the parent says, you know, well there's something over there in that corner, she's -- she always has her head tilted that way when she's in here, then you can, you know, go look over there, oh, what is it? What could it be? Is there some sort of visual thing that's drawing this child in. Is it a particular colored item, is it a lighted item, is there something moving over there? Or, you know, is it the only area that's not super cluttered or, you know, there's so many questions that -- that, you know, you might be able to answer yourself if you are able to put yourself in that environment. Lynne: Right. Ann: I also think that once you go through this interview with the parent, then they understand a little better about what you are looking for. So that when you then refer back to the assessment, you are then -- are you then talking with them after the assessment, they have a better idea of what you're talking about. Sara: It would be easier for them to follow through... Ann: Understand and follow through. Sara: ...with anything that you, you know, that you've collaborated to create with them. So speaking of collaboration, with your parents, it's good to collaborate and also with -- [Slide start:] Description Start: Title: Lynne & Sara’s learning curve Content: • Resolution Chart vs. Rating 1 & 2 • Use Rating 1 after first two steps (Interview, Observation) to help plan the assessment. After assessment Rating 1 can be completed. • Parent Interview is a conversation. • Collaborate, if possible! Description End: another person that is looking at the same thing that you are looking at, whether it's,you know, your occupational therapist or another T-V-I. Lynne: Or an O&M. Sara: Somebody who is also just somebody to bounce these things off of, somebody who can also observe the child and look with you and interpret their behaviors, their visual behaviors. [Slide end:] So... Okay, so that was our learning curve. Now we're going to get right into scoring Rating 1. [Slide start:] Description Start: Title: Scoring Items in Rating 1 (p. 60-61) Content: • “A score of + is assigned if the statement accurately describes the current functioning of the student. In other words, if the statement describes a behavior that is actually occurring in the present time, a score of + is assigned.” Description End: Lynne: So there's four possibilities for scoring. This is a plus, minus and plus minus and R for resolved. We will go through and explain those. Sara: We will read it because Christine Roman did such a good job of explaining it. On Page 60 and 61 it's what Lynne was talking about. If we talk about a plus score that is assigned if the statement accurately describes the current functioning of the student. In other words if the statement describes a behavior that is actually occurring in the present time, a score of plus is assigned. That is a quote from the book off of Page 60. Ann: Under a heading of Scoring. [ Laughter ]. [Slide end:] Lynne: So, it shouldn't be hard to find in the book. Sara: If you don't believe it, it's really in there. And a score of plus minus, on all of these columns on Rating 1, under the O, the I, and the D. The plus minus is assigned if the statement partially describes the behavior demonstrated by the student. [Slide start:] Description Start: Title: Scoring Items in Rating 1 (p. 60-61) Content: • “A score of +/- is assigned if the statement partially describes a behavior demonstrated by the student. It may also be assigned if the behavior occurs occasionally, but is neither strongly present nor strongly absent.” Description End: It may also be assigned if the behavior occurs occasionally, but is neither strongly present nor strongly absent. Ann: Can I interject something? Sara: Please do. [Slide end:] Ann: This plus minus to me is the thing that is the hardest to understand. Personally, I was watching a video of a student with Sara and Lynne and this is -- this is the one that I kept arguing about. And I think it is because I have more experience in doing functional vision evaluations, than I have in doing this Rating 1 assessment. So this whole idea of it partially describes, but is neither strongly present, nor strongly absent is... confusing. Because we were watching a video -- it was a short video -- and we did see the student do one tiny characteristic. But then the rest of the video he did not pay attention to -- did not exhibit that particular characteristic. So we -- mostly because of me [ Laughter ] had a long discussion about that, and... I -- I didn't want to do -- I thought it really should be minus. But they brought me back to this Page 60 and so we really, you know, had to look at that. So, I think for those of you who are used to really classifying and wanting to say this child has, you know, is able to do a particular thing, if they do it intermittently, when you are doing a functional, you don't really give them credit. It becomes that thing that you are going to work on. Which this is, too. It's just stated in a... much more -- just to me not really like we do assessments; of giving credit versus not giving credit. Lynne: Right. Sara: This is not the functional vision assessment -- this is something that you use, and then you can use your judgment, and on that kind of thing. But -- but if you, you know -- if it seems a little counter intuitive to you, and you're where Ann was, we will have some direction for you in a little bit. Here comes the minus. [ Laughter ] The minus is not so difficult. [Slide start:] Description Start: Title: Scoring Items in Rating 1 (p. 60-61) Content: (read by the speaker) Description End: It's given if the statement does not currently apply to the student. That's if it represents the -- the behavior represents a level of functioning not yet obtained by the student. That's different from R. The R is on the next slide. [Slide end:] [Slide start:] Description Start: Title: Scoring Items in Rating 1 (p. 60-61) Content: (read by the speaker) Description End: R resolved is assigned if the statement represents a behavior that was previously present but is now resolved. It's improved and it no longer interferes with visual functioning. The score of R is different from the score of minus in that an R rating also applies to behavior that is no the present at the current time, the R describes behavior that the student no longer demonstrates because the student's visual functioning is more advanced that that described in the statement. So, you wouldn't put a minus if they don't do it currently, but they've done -- [multiple voices] [Slide end:] Lynne: Going back to the parents interview, and last year, a T-V-I that's been with this child since birth, you know, it's the parent that's going to give you that information. Sara: I'm going to take back my statement that I just said that it's kind of developmental. It is not kind of developmental, it is developmental. [ Laughter ] So, what is really great that we have in this book that you need, in order to do this, is the scoring guide. And because of some of the things that Ann was talking about, the plus minus is confusing. Not just because of the functional, but it's sometimes described a behavior that's not necessarily in that range, [Slide start:] Description Start: Title: Use the scoring guide because… Content: • +/- is only indicative the characteristic not completely describing that student, so maybe not necessarily being in that range, NOT that +/- is less resolved than plus….though it can be. Description End: but doesn't necessarily mean that it's less than plus, the math part of my brain, I think, minus is on one side, plus is on the other side, and plus minus is the behavior in between. Lynne: Right. Sara: That's not the way it is. So it's not necessarily less or more resolved than the plus statement. But it can be. So let's look at some examples of that. Lynne: The scoring guide is on Page 97. Sara: Yes. The scoring guide, you will want to look at that. Lynne: You have to look at it. [ Laughter ] [Slide end:] Sara: There's no way around it. Lynne: No choice. Sara: You can't remember it. Lynne: You are not going to be able to do this without using that scoring guide. Sara: So here's an example of the plus minus being more resolved than the plus, than the plus statement. [Slide start:] Description Start: Title: Use the scoring guide because… Content: • Visual attention: +/- in range 1-2 describes more resolved than + • For reference see p. 97, second row, “Consistently attentive to lights or perhaps ceiling fans” Description End: In range 1 to 2, the statement that applies to visual attention, which I think is consistently attentive to lights or perhaps ceiling fans, that's in the second row, if you look at the statement for the plus minus... Is that one? Occasionally able to attend to non‑lighted targets, even in the presence of primary sources of light. Okay, you look at that, that's a plus minus, then you look at the plus, there's a source of indoor/outdoor light and unable to attend to other targets, [Slide end:] unless the lights are turned off, and the student is positioned away from the lights. Lynne: Right. Sara: You know, you can tell which one is more resolved. And that's the plus minus. Lynne: Right, which doesn't really make intuitively make a lot of sense, but, yeah, that's why you can't do it intuitively, you need to follow this. Sara: And then the very next... phase, on the scoring guide, on Page 99, the visual attention in the plus minus [Slide start:] Description Start: Title: Use the scoring guide because… Content: • Visual attention: +/- in range 3-4 describes less resolved than + • For reference see p. 99, third row, “Less attracted to lights; can be redirected” Description End: describes behavior that's less resolved than the plus and that same sort of area, less attracted to light, can be redirected. The plus minus says that primary sources of light must be eliminated only on rare occasions for visual attention to a target to occur. [Slide end:] Okay. And then the plus statement may stare at light but is able to shift attention from lights when appropriate visual targets are presented in controlled environments. So it seems to be that the plus minus is less resolved than the plus. Lynne: And there's many examples of this. Throughout this whole scoring guide when we were doing it, it's like that's not right, you know... Sara: It's not that it's not right, it's just that we were thinking of it in a different way. Lynne: Right Sara: So use it to mark those things because it will really help you. Another thing that we -- that also kind of pertains to what Ann was talking about, if you don't know this child very well, you want to err on the side of caution. [Slide start:] Description Start: Title: Scoring Items in Rating 1 Content: • If you do not know this child well, err on side of caution. • Marking something as "R" only means resolved within that small section of the range. Description End: And... because you don't want people to be working above the child -- remember this is a developmental thing. If you don't have the basic skills, the skills that -- the building skills, you can't do the next thing up. Your brain -- your vision develops in a certain way. So definitely err on the side of caution. You can move up quickly if the child definitely gets what you are seeing. [Slide end:] But you can't move -- it's harder if you are not doing it appropriately -- the child won't be seeing and won't have that time to practice. Lynne: And Sara and I did this, because when we went through this and watching the videotapes, I said "Oh, look they did this." And Sara said "No, they didn't." A lot of it is where the eyes are directed, things that are hard to see on videotape. And so we disagreed. Okay, well let's go with the less -- the lower score. Since we couldn't tell and we disagreed. That's a good thing about doing it with somebody else and having another pair of eyes... Sara: Yeah. Lynne: ...because you get a different perspective. Sara: Yeah. Another thing speaking about -- thinking about something as being resolved, don't fear if you are in a certain phase and you are in, say 1 to 2 and you're marking resolved in that -- for that particular characteristic, but it's only for that phase, because it doesn't mean they are resolved in every way. They're just resolved for Phase 1 to 2. Here's an example. Same -- the same characteristic we're looking at on 97, the second row consistently attentive to lights or perhaps ceiling fans. [Slide start:] Description Start: Title: Scoring Items in Rating 1 Content: • See p. 97, second row, “Consistently attentive to lights or perhaps ceiling fans” (Range 1-2) R statement: “Able to look at targets in the presence of primary sources of light” Description End: In range 1 to 2 the R statement "is able to look at targets in the presence of primary sources of light." [Slide end:] If you mark an R for that one, that doesn't mean that the child is resolved. On the resolution chart all the way across the board. It just means that range 1 to 2. So if that makes you nervous, then you go back up to range 3 to 4, less attracted to light, can be redirected, on Page 99. The plus statement may stare at lights, but is able to shift attention from lights when appropriate visual targets are presented in controlled environment. That may describe your student. So your student gets a plus there. [Slide start:] Description Start: Title: Scoring Items in Rating 1 Content: • See p. 99, third row, “Less attracted to lights; can be redirected” (Range 3-4) + statement: “May stare at lights, but is able to shift attention from lights when appropriate visual targets are presented in controlled environments” Description End: So you're seeing how -- where they're resolved here, but not at the next level. So it's all graded, it's all worked out. Lynne: And there are Stages. Sara: Trust -- trust the scoring guide. It will guide you. That's what it really does. It's a good guide for this particular part of the assessment. So now that we've loaded you down with all of that, [Slide end:] [Slide start:] Description Start: Title: Questions Description End: I wonder if there's any questions? [Slide end:] Oh, yes, star 6 if you have a question, you can also enter a question into the chat. We know there are six people here and we're so glad that you are here. [ Laughter ] Lynne: Has anyone done Rating 1, actually done it on one of their students? Sara: Right, star 6, unmute your phone, talk to us. You can't be afraid of me, I have pig tails. [ Laughter ] Lynne: Right. Sara: Okay. Lynne: All right. Sara: It's not fear, just nothing to say about it. Lynne: Yeah. Sara: Okay. Let's go on. So, now we're going to look at the overall score of Rating 1. So, after you have done your interview and your observation, you have marked all of your things in there and then you have gotten, you understand where you don't have information, you've done your direct assessment, you've put that in there, too. So you put all of your information in all of the columns on Rating 1. Lynne: Now what do you do with it? Sara: Now let's look at the ceiling effect. [ Laughter ] We want to figure out okay so the student is -- you're kind of getting an idea that the student is functioning in a certain range, 1 to 2, 3 to 4, 5 to 6, you know, somewhere in there. And... so you're trying to figure out which, you know, they have some pluses, some plus minuses in a variety of places. So on Page 61, I think it's at the bottom of 61. Lynne: Establishing a range of functioning is the heading. Sara: Establishing a range of functioning is where she talks about this, Christine Roman talks about this. How do you decide whether it the lower or the higher number? You look at the ceiling effect. [Slide start:] Description Start: Title: What is the overall score of Rating 1? (read by the speaker) Description End: What she says the ceiling effect is, this very long quote, I will read to you now. A ceiling effect occurs when the pluses that indicate the student's current level of functioning end, and a cluster of minuses occur for four or more consecutive items. The minuses indicate that the student has not yet reached the level of functioning in that range... Okay. [Slide end:] [Slide start:] Description Start: Title: What is the overall score of Rating 1? Content: (read by the speaker) Description End: So, the student's score on this section of the C-V-I assessment is determined by the number of the C-V-I Range in which the last plus item occurs prior to the shift, not shirt [ Laughter ], to scores of plus minus and minus. [Slide end:] Lynne: So you kind of see this. It's pretty clear when it starts happening when those pluses start turning into minuses and the visual -- what you are looking at visually gets more and more complex. It is pretty clear. Sara: And I think that on the -- on the Rating 1, there's supposed to be kind of grade -- they are supposed to be kind of graded so the things that are at the top of the chart are developmentally maybe more easier, more frequently seen in kids... Lynne: Uh-huh. Sara: ...earlier in that -- even in that little bit of information. Lynne: Right. Sara: So it gets harder as you go down lower, so that's why there would more likely be minuses at the bottom than at the top of that one. The last part of this was kind of what we just talked about. Lynne: But we have to put a caveat in there I think. When we did score this a couple of times, it didn't always work that way, or the student had like splinter abilities down, you know, "Oh, they did this, so it's way down here, you know." So it's not 100%, I think, across the board. You are going to have to use your best judgment about when the majority of those pluses turn into minuses. Sara: Right. Our student had a lot more experience than some of yours will, if you're doing this at a younger age. Our students were... Lynne: They were all older. Sara: older, nine, you know, some of them I think kind are nine was the youngest, the others were teenagers. Lynne: Right. Sara: So you are going to -- the developmental sequence will hold more true for somebody who is younger. I think. Ann: And she mentions, too, that we have to remember that Cortical Vision Impairment is a result of an assault on the brain, and that that can happen at different points on the -- along the visual pathway and that you might have a child with Cortical Vision Impairment who likes to look at faces. And so not to be -- thrown off by that, but as you are doing your assessment, and you see some of these characteristics that this child has not to think, well, something is wrong here, it just means that that characteristic is not present in that child. Sara: They look at my face but they don't have CVI, you're not going to think that. [ Laughter ] Ann: You're not going to think that. [ Laughter ] and then after you have made an observation and you've done interviews where people are saying, no, he looks at my face all the time, then that's something that you are going to do in that direct assessment, but that -- that all characteristics may not be present, you know, as far as -- as far as the child, but they will have some of these. Sara: We had a number of students when we did our CVI clinic last time in San Antonio who were very surprisingly high on the visual reflex on the blink reflex. And even if they were in a Phase I in lots of other ways, they had very good blink reflexes and, you know, it was more intact than you would have thought for a Phase I student. So the things don't always develop exactly the same and the brain, you know, different parts of the brain are engaged or not engaged from the damage. So like what Ann was saying, so all of those things make this assessment so interesting and all of our students so different from each other. So, and its makes the assessment -- it makes the assessment process a little bit less easy, I think. Lynne: Right. I think what we did when we came across that scoring of, you know, it was plus, plus, minus, minus, minus, minus, plus, plus, plus, you know, some of those that we just had to use our best judgment. We went with the lower score. Sara: Yeah. Lynne: So, we went with the first group. the first big -- the last big group of the minuses, even though there were splinter pluses and minuses, you know, ongoing. Sara: Yes. But if you are going to go by the book, or if you want the guidance or if you want to go back to it after this conversation, on Page 62, I think perhaps, it says -- [Slide start:] Description Start: Title: What is the overall score of Rating 1? Content: (read by the speaker) Description End: Since each group of statements is identified by a range of two scores, the lower number of the range is assigned if the plus statements end in the middle of the cluster; the higher number is used if the plus-scored statements are marked to the end of the cluster. That's just what Lynne was talking about. There's variation. But that is your guide. And then, you know, of course, kids are going to be different. [ Laughter ] Than what the guide says. [Slide end:] Ann: Right. If you are doing this on a student who is new to you or that you have not worked with for very long, you just go back to that err on ‑‑ you know, that side, because we don't want to make the assessment seem so complicated that -- that you don't want to do it. Sara: Yes. Ann: And so just like when we first -- I remember -- because learning media's assessments were not a part of the VI teacher responsibility because we only did functional vision evals. I can remember being very hesitant about learning media assessment, until you just do them and you have guidance and we certainly didn't have this time of guidance when we started doing this. Just try it and see where you come with it and collaborate with those other people and just, you know, get your feet wet and do it... Sara: It's a learning process for sure. We're still learning about it. Ann: Yeah. Sara: But, you know, getting into this assessment and doing it, looking at all of these criteria, it's not going to look as odd to you as you might think looking at all of that. Ann: Right. And then you do have data to show the classroom teacher, the parents where you're going and why you're saying, well, we need to set up these environments. Because look at what he's able to do, and if we just intervene, especially with your younger kids, we might be able to get this child to use his vision in a much better way. Lynne: Uh-huh. Ann: So you really, it makes the programming so much more specific and you can feel good about that. Sara: Yeah, yeah. In the book, if you need an example, there's one given. A student name Kathi, her CVI range on Page 63, figure 5.2, and then there's an explanation of the ceiling effect and how it pertains to her particular scores. [Slide start:] Description Start: Title: What is the overall score of Rating 1? Content: • Example of “Ceiling Effect”: o See Kathi’s CVI Range on page 63 (fig. 5.2) o Explanation on page 62, first paragraph Description End: So that could be, you know, helpful to look at as another example or just as an example of a specific student. So... one thing, and this might make you feel a lot better, let's go on to the next slide. [Slide end:] [Slide start:] Description Start: Title: What is the overall score of Rating 1? Content: Interpreting Rating 1 scores (page 62) “This method of interpretation is not intended to determine a precise score; rather, it is more useful in identifying the general range of functioning for a student. It is also important to remember that a student’s level of visual functioning may be between two ranges rather than within one number range.” Description End: This made me feel better, when I looked at this, for interpretation of Rating 1. On Page 62, she says, this method of interpretation is not intended to determine a precise score; rather, it is more useful in identifying the general range of functioning for a student. It's also important to remember that a student's level of visual functioning may be between two ranges rather than within one number range. So, you know, on all of these documents we have one to two, three to four, five to six. [Slide end:] Well, it could be four to five, it doesn't have to be, you know, in between that. And, you know, these things get as close as you can, they really get you thinking. That's one of the great things about Rating 1, it has so much detail, and it really gets you thinking about all of the specific things that you need to be thinking about, with a student's vision that has C-V-I. And so -- but, I have -- I just had a -- I just left the room. [ Laughter ] I don't know what happened. Lynne: You were quick. Sara: I know. I came right back. So one thing that... we also learned -- that Lynne and I also learned about when we did -- we really paid close attention to Rating 1, and then did rating 2, rating 2 is that number line. We did -- we got a lot closer between -- our range became smaller. And that was a good thing. Because we -- in an email, in an exhange with Christine Roman a couple of years ago, we were asking for her assistance in this, and she wrote that you are correct to get slightly different scores on Rating 1 and 2. Rating 2 generally scores a bit more conservatively than Rating 1. [Slide start:] Description Start: Title: What is the overall score of Rating 1? Content: The Range is the score between Rating 1 and Rating 2 “You are correct to get slightly different scores on Rating I and Rating II.  Rating II generally scores a bit more conservatively than Rating I (Newcomb, JVIB, 2010) so the scores are often slightly different.  However, the spread of scores in I & II should not exceed 1.5 points on The Range.  If they do, it is a sign to consider re-assessing or looking more carefully at your interpretation of the test items.” (Christine Roman in an email 3/29/13) Description End: So the scores are often -- and that's from a study that Sandra Newcomb did, you can read about it in J-V-I-B. It's from 2010, you can email us if you want. I think that I downloaded a copy of it somewhere on my computer. [Slide end:] Lynne: Yeah. You liked this. I remember that you were excited when you got this email. Sara: I did. The scores are often slightly different, however, this is really nice, it's so concise, if the spread of scores in 1 and 2, they should not exceed 1.5 points on the range. If they do, it's a sign to reconsider or to reassess or look more carefully at your interpretation of the test items. So the reason why I thought that was really great is because I had just received a person's -- somebody's results of the C-V-I range, and they had the student -- I think -- their range was between 2 and 7 and I thought, well, that's not -- there's something wrong here. There's not very helpful, you know, because that's such a huge range. And so this really helps -- if you get that big of a range, you really haven't understood this and go back and look closer. Lynne: And we had to do that. I think we got a 2 once. Sara: We did. Lynne: And we had to go back and look at some of the stuff that... that we were -- well, you know, let's just pick this one. And so it might be helpful as you go through the Rating 1 to kind of star, asterisk those ones that you are like "Oh, I'm going to go with this," just in case you get a bigger number than 1.5, so you can go back and re-look at those things. Maybe do more testing if you wanted to or just interpret it a different way. Sara: Yes. Chapter 2. Future Sessions So... it is time for us to think about -- hey, we're way ahead of the curve, wow. We have plenty of time for discussion and questions. [ Laughter ] So for the next Study Group, that's going to be on December 14th. [Slide start:] Description Start: Title: Next Study Group - December 14th: Content: Materials/videos due by November 13th Stephanie will share her student. Polls: • Do you have a student you would like to share with the group for the Feb. 29th or April 25th study group? Please enter your name and email address and date of study group. • Please list CVI related topics that you would like to explore together, your name, email, and date of the study group. Sara will contact you via email and work with you for the month you volunteered. The group thanks you! Description End: And the materials are due by November 13th. So that's coming up pretty quick. And Stephanie was going to share one of her students, she had a couple that she was picking from. And Stephanie, I will get with you and if you are here, I'm not sure if Stephanie is signed in. And we will plan what to do next. But let's go to our first poll. And... the poll is, if you have a students that you would like to share with the group for the February 29th or April 25th, those are our last two meetings after our December one, if you could enter your name and email address of the date of the Study Group that you would like to choose for your student. Don't all -- now calm down. [ Laughter ] Not everybody at once here. Control Room: One "no." Sara: Okay. Thank you for commenting. [ Laughter ] Control Room: It looks like Stephanie is online. Sara: Okay. And if -- also if you have -- Oh, I guess that's the next poll. Lynne: April 25th. Sara: Who's got April 25th? Lynne: I can't see. Sara: I can't read that. Control Room: April 25th, Karen Burns. Sara: Karen Burns. Oh, yeah. Okay. Cool, so that is the last one. Also, let's look at the next poll. And that one is if you would like to explore a particular topic together... put your name and your email and the date of the Study Group that you would like to. I think if Karen has taken the 25th, that leaves us with the 29th of February. So if there's a particular topic that you are interested in for the 29th, let me know who you are. So I can -- if I have a question, I can ask you. And if you want to think about that for a longer time, we -- we will also have these kinds of questions next time. So -- so if nobody really has any ideas for now, we will talk about this again in December. And Lynne and I have some backup plans, we have some exciting things we might want to share, too. Lynne: We do. Sara: What does that say, Andy? Control Room: We'd like you to share the C-V-I clinic results from Fort Worth, in January. Sara: Ooh, that's a great idea. Okay. We could do that for February 29th. That sounds good. All right. So ‑‑ Lynne: Stephanie says I'm exploring literacy, if you are having success please bring your ideas in December. We are. We recently have a -- we have a new student that has had a traumatic brain injury about two years ago. And in 10th grade. So he's in 12th grade now. He was just an average, functioning high school soccer star, student. We just got permission to do a functional vision on him. We are doing it using Christine's, this Rating 1 and rating 2. So I'm taking video now and I can bring some of that. He is -- he has some literacy complexity, it's really difficult for him. But I just started taking videos today, so I'll put together some stuff for you guys to see, and how we're kind of modifying for him. Sara: Or she's going to show, Stephanie is going to show her student in December. But if you also -- if you have ideas ‑‑ Lynne: If you have success, bring your idea. Sara: So we're going to look at her student in December and then so we're going to be looking specifically at literacy for this student. Sounds like... Lynne: Okay, she says, I will have time, bring it. I will have time, bring it. Sara: Cool. Yeah. Because if we get a chance to look at more students who are reading and able to look at words and such, then ‑‑ [Slide end:] Lynne: Right and ‑‑ Sara: More experience for us. Lynne: I had a rumor that Christine Roman's next book is going to explore literacy a lot more, because she didn't really touch on it in her first book. And so I do have some -- some slides from a presentation that she did about -- about literacy that I can bring. Sara: Oh, good. Where did you get those? Lynne: I got them a while ago. It's -- the PowerPoint isn't really good. You can't watch it on your own, there's no videos connected to it, there was. Sara: Is that Jamie's? Lynne: Jamie's. Yeah. So if we go through some of those slides and just explain what they are ‑‑ Sara: And Jamie's presentation, that presentation that she -- it's available, it's hard to find. But it's on Region 13's website. Lynne: Okay. Sara: So I can also ‑‑ Lynne: Jamie Ratchford? Sara: Jaime Alexander, but I think her name was Ratchford, then. Lynne: I think that I can email you all, if you email me, I can send you that link if I can find it. I think we may have put it on our first -- on our first handout, I'm not sure about that. I don't recall that, but I would love to see it again. Sara: And there is -- there is also a presentation on the Perkins website that Diane Sheline did on C-V-I and literacy. I haven't watched the whole thing yet, but I would expect it that could be very -- you know how Diane is, very informative and she gives us things that we can definitely use. Lynne: uh‑huh. Chapter 3. Come to SWOMA Sara: So -- and I'm wondering if ‑‑ Control Room: [Indiscernible] Sara: Oh, Diane is going to be at SWOMA. I'm not -- I'm not sure which date, but... Lynne: Friday. Sara: I think she's doing two sessions on O&M and C-V-I. Lynne: And there's also going to be a neurologist, neurosurgeon? Someone talking about C-V-I from his perspective. About how C-V-I, visual impairment is different in the brain than other visual impairments. Sara: That must have been one of the general session that's I didn't have to pick so I didn't read it as closely. But that's really exciting. That sounds great. Lynne: If you can come to SWOMA. Sara: Come to SWOMA. I've never been before, I'm going to go this year. Lynne: You don't have to go far, it's here on TSBVI campus. [ Laughter ] Sara: Unless you live in El Paso you don't have to go far. We don't have to go far. Lynne: It's not far for us. [ Laughter ] Sara: Okay. Looks like we're ending a little bit early today, if there are no more questions or anything. Let's see, we have Fort Worth Lynne: When did T-V-Is start going to SWOMA? Sara: When did T-V-Is start going to SWOMA? They do sometimes. When there's stuff that catches their eye, I suppose, when they have permission to go. Ann: We were encouraged this year. It came to our team that, yes, vision teachers were welcome, so ‑‑ Sara: Yeah. I've never even thought about going before. Lynne: The topic is vision, I think anyone interested in that topic can go. It's not like they exclude T-V-Is. Sara: It's mostly for O&Ms, but they will let us in ‑‑ Lynne: It's not just for O&Ms. No. You should go on the outreach website and look at the agenda. [Screen start:] Description Start: TSBVI web page for Webinars & Conferences Description End: There's a lot of really, really nice sessions on that Friday. There's pre‑‑ on Thursday there's pre-agenda or pre-conference that focuses a lot on yoga for kids with V-I, and that might be really, really up your alley. I'm not really going to go to that one because that's not -- I don't teach that. But -- but the Friday sessions are the ones that really a lot of C-V-I choices. Sara: That spoke to you. Also I believe that Jane Korsten is going to be -- yeah, there is the registration now up on the -- on the window. So -- so ‑‑ Lynne: Right. The breakout sessions were mostly, if I recall correctly, about yoga. So that's yoga and movement, but you could also incorporate yoga into your teaching, into lessons, we do here. Sara: Yeah, it's really good for working on social skills, definitely and emotional skills. Especially for your students who really need to work on that part. Lynne: Kendra, can you go to the Friday sessions and find the neurologist? Is that him? I think we missed it. Did we miss it? Ann: It was at the very beginning. I think he might be the keynote. Lynne: Right, this one. Nope, nope, right there, nope. Yes. Sara: Looking inside the adaptive brain of individuals with ocular blindness and Cortical Vision Impairment. Lynne: Right, so that doesn't sound, you know, just O&M. Sara: Cool. Ann: And it would encourage collaboration between the vision teacher and the O&M, if both of you came together. Lynne: Right. Sara: Yeah, I think as far as CVI is concerned, definitely a lot of visual impairment, the movement piece is so huge. You know, that we can't really -- we can't really -- you know, separate so much from that, especially, you know, we're all working together on this stuff. Lynne: Right. [Screen end:] Sara: Maybe -- maybe this year is just more inclusive somehow. Lynne: Right. So Diane -- Donna, you need to come down for SWOMA. Sara: Yeah, come on down. [fade to black] Well, thank you all. We hope you can come to SWOMA. And Stephanie, I will be in touch with you and I will send you an email shortly and we can start talk about getting ready for the next CVI Study Group, Study Group 3. Thank you guys so much. Lynne: Thank you. Sara: Bye.