TSBVI Coffee Hour: Proactive Advocacy for Back to School
Transcript Start

Kate Borg: > Kate: We are really excited to have Kim Avila with us today. Kim is the professor in charge of the Teacher Preparation Program in Blindness and Visual Impairment at George Mason University. 

And we're just so glad that she's here, and agreed to do this across state borders. And we're just excited about that. So I'm going to turn the time over to Kim.

Kim Avila: Thank you. I'm so glad to be here. So is my mike on? Can you hear me OK? 

Kate: Yes. 

Kim: OK, great. So I want to thank Kathi Garza too, she and I met virtually, earlier this year, when everything shut down and the National Organization for Albinism and Hypo-Pigmentation called a few of us together to try to start helping some families navigate the online process. So she and I never met in person yet, but we've been collaborating a lot. So thanks, Kathy, and thanks TSBVI for having me here today. 

So, I am going to talk about taking a proactive approach to advocacy, which I know a lot of you probably already do, but I'm just going to share some ideas that I have to facilitate that process. I am visually impaired. I do have low vision from OCA ,and I have been coordinating a online program. Our program is primarily online and has been for the 11 years that I've been associated with George Mason University. And this has thrown us for a loop, too. I have two kids with low vision, as well. My own two daughters. And, you know, there's a lot we have to navigate. There's a lot going on. And no matter how well experienced we think we are, there's still room for improvement. There's still room for greater understanding. And, you know, we certainly want to reach the most students possible. 

OK. So I do have a small agenda there, but I have to show. I have to brag. Sorry. My my youngest daughter is a digital artist. She's she has low vision. So she makes my graphics for me, for my classes. And then she'll put little white canes in their hand so that it had to feature hers and in the session as well. 

So, I'm going to talk about proactive versus reactive advocacy and proactive, meaning that what can we plan for? We certainly can't control everything that happens. We can't control the current situation. But can we put our heads together and really think of things that are forthcoming that maybe we can that we can promote for our students to increase their access? And I want to preface that by saying, you know, we have a lot of service providers in here and some parents, and I am going to urge all of you to be an advocate for yourself and to take care of yourself. So, we have no room to lose any service providers who burn out. We have no room for parents to burn out, either. And it's going to be really easy for that to happen to any of us because it is a stressful time. So I'm giving you permission to take care of yourselves. And please do, because it's heartbreaking when I see, as a university faculty member coordinating the VI program, we have this many job openings here in Virginia and across the nation. And I only have this many I only have a few teachers to fill those positions. And so I really want encourage you all do what you need to do to, you know, find your center, take care of your health. You know, sometimes we hear about our teachers getting high, high blood pressure, stomach issues and, you know, anxiety. And so if if we lose TVIs, it's going to be a lot harder. So please take care of yourself and be that proactive advocate to make sure that you can make it through the school year. 

So, of course, we can't address we can't plan for everything because things come up that we just have absolutely no control over. But I'm just going to start generating some ideas that will hopefully help the thought process for you all. And then hopefully I can get some ideas from you all about what you've done and things that are helping just to be more proactive in our approaches. 

So in thinking our kids, my kids are starting school next week. They were supposed to start two weeks ago. They delayed the start. And now we're going virtual. And, you know, hopefully the day will come that we can go back to school. And so one thing I did this summer is I really advocated to some of our school systems, and I asked them, what preparations are you making, because we did not know. Are we going back in person? Are we going to be virtual? And so some of the things that I really encouraged our school systems as they were purchasing items for this upcoming school year is to think about our kids with low vision, our kids who are blind, and the things they buy. 

So, for example, social distance markers that they're going to put in the hallways. So, an example is we really want those to be high contrast. So if the floor is beige, we don't want the school buying yellow distancing markers. Yellow and white. It's not going to show up. And for a lot of kids, not just our kids, but for a lot of kids, it's not going to show up. Some of our schools we're asking about. What about our students who are blind? So there are some social distance markers that I found that I've seen actually that are a little more tactile. And then some school systems also went and bought like dollar store rugs in some cases where the cane or the feet could actually feel where those markers were, or they put something on the wall and the student trailed with their cane on the wall. 

The other thing that I have seen a lot of is the installation of Plexiglas for our school systems that are in session. So, plexiglass is obviously clear and it is being installed around desks. It's being installed on the office desks, and in the main office. And in some cases, that edge of the plexiglass is right at face level and it's going to be a hazard. We're gonna get some scratches on the nose, some pokes on the face. Hopefully no pokes in the eye. But I'm not going to say it's not going to happen, because you all know how that goes. But we want to really encourage our school systems to make sure they're considering that. I've been using blue painter's tape to line some of the school systems Plexiglas, just so that they can see that that is where the edges. 

And again, we think about this for our kids with low vision, but there's a whole lot of other kids who are going to be bumping and scratching their faces on their desks and on the plexiglass. I also really encourage our school systems to make sure they are following ADA as they're installing these plexiglass systems. So some of the pictures that came across my desk were the Plexiglas extended beyond the reception desk at the front office, and it's high enough that a cane would not hit it. But it's also chest to head level and it just extends beyond that desk. So that is not ADA compliant. So, we want to make sure our school systems are installing them in a way that our students, Cahn's, can actually detect them. 

So the. So any comments in the chat box that. What else do you think we need to think about for. Meeting these diverse needs during COVID-19. And for the on campus aspect, what things have you noticed that might help? 

My chat box disappeared. So I have to find it. 

OK. 

Anybody? 

Well feel free to post it in the chat if you have devices or. 
Oh. Guiding. Yes. Sighted guide. You know what baffles me? 

We're telling people to cough in their elbow, kick off in your elbow, and then you're telling our student who's blind to grab that elbow!

So, yeah, that is a consideration for guiding. And if anyone has perfect solutions, I mean, of course, the hand sanitizers. Oh, where I work, I would prefer if they put the hand sanitizers in a brightly colored dispenser. Because sometimes, you know, they just blend in with the wall. 

Hand over hand assistance. Yes, and those are things that are definitely a challenge. So people have suggestions for those. I'm telling, you know, students to wipe off their canes on a regular basis to have sanitizing wipes. Hand sanitizers for those types of activities. I also-- a lot of our schools are cold. So if, you know, I'm wearing a cardigan doing guiding without the cardigan on so I can wash my arm if need be, and then putting the cardigan back on after.

Let's see. Have. Added bright colored duct tape around the edge of the plexiglass. 

Yep, absolutely, all those good things. 

All right. So I'm going to go on to talk a little bit about something this is not unique to COVID-19. If I were talking with you all in a non-pandemic year, I would be preaching the same little fuel here. I do it every year to my grad students. And I really want to talk about accessibility, because this is a huge problem. It's a massive problem, now, because we have a lot of students who are blind and low vision who are going to be online students. And it's been an issue for a very long time. But we have we have a number of devices, programs, apps, electronic text books that are not accessible. 

They're not accessible with screen readers, with different types of technologies are Braille displays. We have some that are great, which is awesome, but we have some that are not. And we have academic students who are college bound, who are very capable. They are whizzes with their technology. But when our school systems purchase items that are inaccessible, as TVIs, what do you have to do? When they purchase an electronic text book that's inaccessible to your student who uses a Braille display. What are you going to spend the next several weeks doing? You can tell me the chat. 

So I call it retro-fitting. You have to retrofit all of that inaccessible text into a document. You have to OCR it, put it through an OCR. You have to get it formatted correctly, and somehow get it to your student, whether you know there you're going to emboss it up for them or you're going to email it to them as a .bfr, or as an accessible electronic text. If you have a device that is completely inaccessible with our screen readers and devices are our different technologies. I am constantly being told by our teachers that they are being instructed by their school system to retro-fit accessibility. So, when we're thinking about advocacy, we really want encourage our school systems to first of all, look at the VPAT, the Voluntary Product Accessibility Template and determine has that product been assessed for accessibility. Now, a lot of companies have VPATs that they have filled out maybe for an older version. They may have skimmed through it and checked all the boxes and they may not have been very honest. So we do need our school systems to verify that these products they're spending hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars on are accessible to all of our students. 

And this is so important for our students who are blind and visually impaired, of course. But we also have students with dyslexia, print disabilities, convergence insufficiency, reading disabilities and all sorts of other types of physical impairments who also need accessible. So, you might think your school system might say, well, we only have six students in our county who are blind and visually impaired. Yes, you do. And their education is just as important as everyone else's. But you also have a few hundred other students with these other IEPs with-- who also need accessible technologies. 

So, yeah, a lot of I'm seeing in here, people are spending time and I want to teach Braille. I want to teach technology. I want to focus on the ECC. I want to adapt this chemistry lesson that's highly visual into something meaningful for my student. I do not want to sit there and try to manipulate all this text into accessible format. It's going to take hours. 

So really encourage your school systems to look at procurement. Here in Virginia, we are told to follow [indiscernible], which is the I have a link, a couple of slides away from here that we'll talk about a little bit. But look at what your state requires for accessibility. And then, you know, we need to be making sure that there's somebody on those procurement teams who are going to take this into consideration. This is not just COVID times. This is always. And as a program coordinator at a university, this keeps me up at night because there's programs I want to use out there to make my lessons more meaningful. But I really you know, I'm not going to purchase something that's inaccessible. 

And I'm lucky because my university has a Section 508 office, and they will not just look at that VPAT, but they will look at the actual accessibility of the program. So I am extremely lucky to have that service. But I know a lot of you aren't. So that's something that we need to think about. I also want to encourage you to tell your school systems that. A lot of things we can't retrofit accessibility into. I am not a hacker and I'm not a programmer, so I can't hack into this new computer device you bought, reprogram it, restructure it, put all the accessibility in it. Just that's not what we do. So that does go back on the companies. 

And it's my personal feeling. If we have enough school systems who say, hey, look, you need to make this accessible to all of our students, we're getting lawsuits, we're getting OCR complaints. But most importantly, this is impinging on independence and education for our students. So, we want to make sure that we're purchasing things that are more of our kids can access. 

So those are the bigger devices for procurement. The other thing is we have a lot of really awesome teachers who are creating fabulous worksheets and hand outs and slides and everything else, and they are doing a really great job with that. But they're not putting accessibility into it. So then the TVI, you know, maybe the teacher saves it as an inaccessible PDF. aOur TVIs then have to take that document, go through that OCR, go through the whole process and make it accessible. And it takes hours. It really does, whether we're on campus or online. It really is a big deal. 

So I really want to encourage part of that proactive advocacy piece is to share with your school systems. First of all, why it's important that we train our teachers to author accessible content. But secondly, to also implement it. And that way, more students, again, are kids who are VI, but our kids who are also have other disabilities. So I have some resource. I have a couple examples of what happens, though. I meet a little school schedule. This is a fictitious school schedule and it's a table. So I put the table inside your hand out. I tested it with JAWS. My jaws can read it. I put the row header to repeat row header if it went over multiple pages and I could navigate it with my JAWS. So this happened multiple times to my, you know, in multiple cases perfectly accessible schedule here, typed up in a nice table. Then we're having teachers who are taking that wonderful table. And guess what I did here? I took a screen capture of that perfectly accessible table and sent it out to the school. And I said, this is your schedule for this year. Can my student, who's blind or visually impaired or uses 80, can they access the screen capture? Tell me in the chat. I mean, even if I put all text in it. Are they going to access this? Alt-text is where I say, you know, it's a, you know, image of a class schedule. 

So this is going to be very difficult. So for the TVI or the parent, they're going back and they're retyping this. So they're putting it into an accessible format. So it's a step that we just don't need to take. And, you know, this happened at my daughter's school. And other parents were complaining because it was blurry. The screen capture was blurry. So really helping teachers understand that this is an accessible table that you created. 

So send out that table. You don't need to send out a capture. And I know the reason why some teachers do. They don't want our families to change information on it. But you have it documented that you send it in a certain way, because you send it via email. You posted it on campus, or blackboard, or Google classroom. So I would say if there is one thing to correct right now. It's to be our schools don't take text as a screen capture. Don't take a screen capture of text. Actually, get the text in there. Give us the text. And, you know, if we have to embed some more accessibility into it, then that's going to be OK. 

Kate: This is Kate. So our question came in. You know what? How should we ask teachers to save things? Is there a particular kind of document? What would be the best way? 

Kim: Yeah, if they're saving them even in Google Docs, if they're saving in Word or Pages, that is all extremely helpful. It's when they start saving it as an image, or PDF has a lot of accessibility challenges in it because we have to tag for reading order even if they don't save it as a screen capture. We have to do some other things, too. 

But literally, just putting it in that original document where they created it is going to be super helpful. So, any of those, you know, normal word processor. I have some students who don't like using Google Docs, but, you know, it's definitely something I as a TVI, I can take that text right out of Google Docs, put it into my Braille transcriber and send it off as a .brf, or my student who's using that note taker. You know, they can access it more readily. So I see another question. I just can't see the text. Kate did it. Was there someone else?

Kate: Just a comment. Just saying avoid screenshots as much as possible. 

Kim: Absolutely. So it's a really big challenge. And that's where your time and energy, because if I were to put that schedule through an OCR, like if it were bigger, it's going to mess up. I mean, it's just going to be very time consuming. So really asking for those original documents and having our students getting access to them as super helpful. 

So the proactive approach in this as being part of that conversation about accessible media programs, text. They're going to ask you as a TVI to serve on that committee. And again, maybe you are highly skilled. My husband's a programmer. I am not. I don't understand, ninety-nine percent of what he says. So he would be the person to serve on that committee, not me, because I'm not going to know what all these abbreviations and things are. That is not my full time job. And if your school system, kind of the analogy I give, they don't ask their math teachers to do the school's taxes and to do their accounting department. Yeah, they know math. And yeah, they could probably figure out some, maybe some. Our CPA is I don't know. But this is a full time job. This is a very in-depth, detailed, and even if they contract with someone, it's going to be helpful. 

So the reactive approach, of course, is we just buy whatever we make the TVI address it. We wait for a parent to file an OCR complaint and then we, you know, we'll think about it. And the sad thing for me as a teacher is that nobody wants to go through litigation. Nobody wants to go through an OCR complaint. But most of all, I- I can't bear that on my heart, knowing that something I did or something I created was inaccessible, you know, so that that to me as an educator, as it is a much bigger step right there. So our accessibility, it is a proactive team approach that's required and something that's oftentimes overlooked. 

So I did put some resources, they are linked in the handout, some of these are my husband's conversations that he did, webinars he did earlier in the year about accessibility, documents, presentations, social media posts. So we're getting a lot of social media posts. Again, those screen captures that, oh, we're having this online meeting for students with disabilities, but it's a screen capture so my kids can access it. 

Kate, I saw another question pop up, but it went away. 

Kate: That was actually just me. I just couldn't comment. OK. We we especially see this reactive approach surrounding state testing. 

Kim: Oh, there's a lot of. Yeah, there is. And I'm there there's some there's some states like like our state does have a committee that does work on these issues and whatnot. But again, everything is technical now and it is 2020, pandemic or not. This accessibility element. It just baffles me that we have to keep asking and demanding. It baffles me. So I did put the link to the Web content accessibility guidelines. There's so much out there I don't want to overwhelm you. 

But anyway, so I want to ask all of you, how can your students be involved in this process? 

That procurement, accessibility, you can put it in the chat. 

And while you're doing that, I'll give you another example, pre-pandemic times. School system had the Lunch Code Machines that the students punch their numbers in. They were tactile. Kind of like the phones. The school system over the summer purchased new lunch pads to type at the numbers. They were flat panel. They were completely inaccessible. So my student, who previously could feel the buttons just fine to punch in their number, now can't independently type in their number. And of course, the response was, "Oh, the cashier can do it for them. They can tell their number to so-and-so." And it's like this is about their independence. First of all, you shouldn't be giving your PIN number to anybody, especially if you are capable and able to put it in yourself. So that's just another example, that procurement. Why did we spend seventy thousand dollars on new lunch pads when you know, the ones actually we had were great? OK, so who. I'm sorry Kate. I comments keep popping up, but I can't. They disappear. 

Kate: That's all right. I gotcha. 
So Michael says, you know, students can communicate directly with their Jenette teachers about their needs and have them informed Gena teachers about materials that are inaccessible rather than going to the TVI to correct it. 
If they know what formats work best for them, they should advocate for that in the beginning of the school year and advocate for themselves. And then Laura has a question, if that's all right. She says, I have a twelve year old non -raille student who uses forty eight point font. Any suggestions for accessible books with print?

Kim: Yeah. So I'm an advocate for electronic where ever we can get it, because that for me that works well. And then for a lot of my students that works really well too. So I get books from Book Share and you can change the font, you can bump it up the and again, like with the school systems buying inaccessible text, that's where you can't because you can't manipulate the font. They might be using Zoom Text. They might be using a magnifier, but sometimes the back and forth makes it difficult. So I also use some apps too that put the like on the iPhone. Like if I'm reading an internet article, I can put it in the reader view and it lines it up nicely so I don't have to strain my eyes going back and forth. So the other thing is also check with your states' on their accessible instructional materials because we can't get books from our accessible instructional materials. So those of you in Virginia and Virginia is actually housed the building over for me at George Mason University. So they do send those books out in EPUB. They send them out in electronic format. And I know our AIM program will send out novels. They will send out different things like that. I think I saw another one pop up. 

Kate: Yes, so Linda says, educate others is material or shared, maybe reactive. The first go round, but hopefully proactive for the next.

Kim: Yes. All right. So really great comments. And, you know, it's one thing when Kim keeps coming in. This needs to be accessible. But sometimes, you know, we have our students go meet with the board. They go meet with the Admin. And, you know, a student sometimes just saying, look, this really when I don't have things inaccessible format, it impacts me. 

And giving that personal view sometimes will have sometimes the school system will say, will you contact one of your students who are blind or visually impaired, have them come in and test this product for us, and see if it's accessible. And that's great to start off with. But like for me, as a person with low vision, I have my way that I access things. I have my own tricks with JAWS, and I have my own tricks with everything I do. But that doesn't mean that it includes the perspective of all people with disabilities. So, this is literally what my husband does. The way they assess things is so methodical. So that's why having that extra, you know, that that contractor, that consultant or that specialist in assistive technology is going to be helpful. All right. Were there any other questions or?

Kate: not at the moment? 

OK, great. So I'm going to talk about something we always say. So let me know the chat box. Have you ever said your students speak up to speak up for yourself? 

Advocate, self advocate. 

Kate: Seeing lots of yeses. 

Kim: Yes. So it's something we all say and we all do. And this is, you know, it's important. We do need to learn how to speak up for ourselves and advocate for our needs. And all of that good stuff. 

But I do want to emphasize that advocacy is a two way street. And I saw this post on on social media. It said, you know, communication is important, but comprehension is just equally as important, especially with advocates, with advocating for yourself. And so I'm like when I teach about advocacy to my own kids and when I think about it for myself, there's some things that I just try to keep in mind. And it is also, first of all, about respectful communication. We also need to consider our students backgrounds and personalities when we're teaching them how to advocate. We do have kids who they're not going to stop the class and say, hey, that's inaccessible but, you know, they might be more prone to. They will email the teacher privately after, or they'll set something up with that teacher before or after. We also need to make sure that we're teaching our students about advocacy, that it's FERPA compliant. So for me, as a university instructor, my students are responsible for giving me their disability accommodation letter before they need accommodations. I might know them personally, and I know they have a disability. I can't call them out. I can't say, "Hey, you know, tell me all about your disability and all that." They need to have a conversation with me privately, not in class. So there's just a couple of examples. And Kate, I just saw some more comments come up, but 

Kate: I'm sorry. I was just giving some reminders. 

Kate: OK. Thank you. OK. So I'm just going to give you an example. 

So obviously I have no problem speaking up for myself. You know, I'm going to say the things that I need to say and when I need to say it. But just before the shutdown, I went to find my daughter out of school for a dentist appointment. And I got to the school and they installed all new computers. They had a couple of them there that we sign our kids out, in and out. And, you know, it was a different system. So, I went up to the front office staff. I said, "Oh, which computer do I sign her out of?" And she said, [sighing] "The computer that says 'student sign out.'" And I was like, "OK, I don't hear the computer saying anything. And I didn't see the signs either." They were tiny, I found them later. They were teeny tiny. And so, you know, did I advocate for myself? Did I ask for help? In that situation, yes, I feel like I did, but it was again, it was the response. And for me, as you know, I'm a mom and, you know, pretty strong in who I am, like, that's not going to shake me. 

But when we have a child who gets a response like that, it's earth shattering, because they feel like they're stupid or, you know, because they cannot see what. And obviously, they weren't labeled very well. And so-- we-- it's more about that communication. And by the way, the school knows all about my vision. You know, they know all about that. So it's when we get that response, it's very difficult. And I think for me, it's this for this type of response doesn't just come from towards me as a person with low vision. It comes to the very diverse population of families that are there, many of whom don't speak English, some of whom may not have had an education, actually may not be able to read. So, while I can say I have low vision, I can't see your little sign. You know, as another parent gonna stand up there and say, I don't know how to read or, you know, I how can they communicate that? 

So this is sometimes the responses that we get and sometimes they're just not worth it to continue on. But unfortunately, we do have a lot of kids who are blind and visually impaired, who've gotten a response like that. You know, the child says I. What was the assignment? And the teacher points, it's there on the board. So they get that kind of response. So, we need to really make sure that that receptive communication is both ways, and that the teachers understand why the student might be asking that question. 

So this is going to. This is an example that something that's happened and is something I experienced. And then also some of my students have told me they're experiencing with the teachers that they're working with in schools. So let's say you are back on campus. We're back to normal. And a lot of teachers use smart boards in classroom instruction. And so over a lot of our kids with low vision, we have accommodations on their IEP. We have things like 'screen share' If they have low vision, they're going to be using screen share on an iPad or a computer for some of my kids. We've used monitors hooked into the smart board, so they can see the smart board. For some of our Braille students who read Braille, we might give them the documents in .brf format for their display or I might Braille it up for them. So they have access to the content on the smart board. 

So true story. And this is recent. Not making not making it up, sadly, but a science teacher said every time that student with low vision needs to access the smart board accommodation, they need to raise their hand and tell me they can't see it. And then I will enable screen share. So the really big challenge about this is, first of all, when we have IEP accommodations, those are approved. And if we are being a proactive advocate, if we're teaching that student to be proactive, then we're gonna have that QR code ready and the student's just gonna ding it right in when they come into the classroom. We're gonna have that punch code, if they're using join me. We're gonna have that little code up. We're gonna put the Braille material next to the door. But the biggest thing is we are not going to have our students, every single day, because most of our kids, their vision is not going to get better. Some of them might. But for most of our kids, it's going to be about the same or if not worse. And so every day to say interrupt class, I can't see that, you know, turn on the smart board, sharing the screen sharing program. 

So we want to make sure that's more of a proactive approach than a reactive and that we're also being FERPA compliant. And I know a lot of you TVIs you are in your counties, you're in a classroom with twenty seven students. And every time the student using an accommodation, if we have to ask for it, it it's a disruption. It's a disruption to me when I'm teaching, even online, if, you know, I have to stop reset something up. We need to have it up ahead of time. And I understand what the teacher was coming from. That the student needs to advocate. But also, it's an approved IEP accommodation. My students in my university class, I can't ever tell them you need to stop my class. Tell me you're still disabled in front of a class and then tell me to give you the accommodation. You know, I give them their accommodation. You know, if it is to get like the notes or whatever, they get it ahead of time. So just something to think about with you with that. 

And a lot of this does require a lot of planning. So I really like meeting with teachers in advance. And including our students. So my daughter actually just did that the other day. Her TVI set that up and asking, "What is this class going to be like?"

When I did my Ph.D., you know, several years ago, I had to take advanced statistics. And a lot of it. And I was terrified because it's highly visual. And, you know, I have low vision! And it had been a while since I had been in a university classroom.

So I went to my professors several months in advance and said I'm taking stats with you in the fall. Tell me about your teaching style. You know, she would have let me observe a class, I'm sure, if I asked. But she told me about the things she does and the technology. We're going to use SPSS and different types of things. So I was able, over the summer, to download the SPSS. It's expensive and you don't want to buy it. But get on and read and access it. She sent me some of her PowerPoints. So I was able to see how things go and what her teaching style was. So when I went into that class that first day to take stats, my vision stuff was accounted for. Most of the accommodations I did myself. You know, she posted her PowerPoints ahead of time and I was able to print or download them. The only thing she had to do was bump up the font on my tests so I could see them.

So, you know, it's going in there. You know it's going to be a hard class. You know chemistry's going to be tough. Why don't we plan ahead?
Let's see what we can do together. And I think the one disadvantage we have with our school‑aged students, is they often don't know who their teachers and classes are going to be until, you know, a week before, so it makes it a little bit of a challenge. 

So it's important that we have our kids. You know, the advocacy's a key element. But to communicate with them. Writing those letters, asking, okay, what books are we reading this semester? So they get the list of books. And maybe the student looks for them on Book Share and on Bard [phonetic]. If they're not there, maybe the TVI needs to order them from whatever source, if we can't get them in accessible format. Being a step ahead. Not waiting for the book to get assigned. The teachers don't just get up Monday morning and say, we're going to read this book, and here's this book for everybody. There is planning and fore thought that goes into that.
Any comments or questions?

Kate: I'm so sorry. I was muted. A comment just back on the previous slide. Unfortunately her students encounter those kinds of attitudes all too often with teachers, you know, expecting students to ask for it every time.

Kim: Yeah. And that really ‑‑ you know, getting in there and helping them understand. I hated that. And I didn't get VI services for most of my education even though I'm right at 20/200. So in school I didn't. And teachers, can you see this? Can you see this? And, you know, just to go in and really help them understand what it's like to have ‑‑ for that student's vision. And it's not going to change. 

And I think one of other things is: we have a lot of teachers who ask, well, how can you see? And they're expecting, you know, a 9 year‑old to tell them how they see. And sometimes the reverse of that that I ask people: So, tell me, you as a person who sees 20/20 how do you see?
I've never seen 20/20. I have no idea what that looks like. And then I've never had somebody explain it to me in a logical way how a person with 20/20 sees. So, we're coming from this premise that a person who is totally sighted that their experience, and the way they see the world is normal. 

But the fact is that's not normal for me and I don't understand that. That's okay if you don't understand my vision. I don't expect you to. But it is hard to explain. And, you know, having come through a masters and Ph.D. program in blindness and vision loss, I feel like I can explain things better now. but I certainly couldn't when I was younger. 

I just had to put this in, since we have a captive TVI audience. If you're going to focus on something with ECC and they're going to come to university and get mean professors like me. Please, make sure they know how to use their calendar systems. Especially if your students are not on campus with you, being able to track things and using that calendar system. Even if it's a paper calendar or electronic, on their device, or Google calendars or something. Just being able to mark their deadlines and their assignments, and tests, and things is really key. 

I put some things here because they need to manage that. When they come to the university level, we don't give them daily reminders. I give them the syllabus. I tell them about the assignments, and give a couple of reminders here and there but it's not a daily thing that I'm giving them reminders.

So, Kate, I think I saw something else pop up?

Kate: Oh, yeah. It's my comment. Advocacy expectations must be age appropriate. And then Regina said using a calendar is important for everyone!

Kim: So true.

Kate: Kathi commented saying this is a super good point. I've always worked with students on helping them develop the language to describe their impairment or vision, because I feel like the reason why most kids don't like the subject is because they feel at a loss for how to explain. I love Kim's suggestion.

Kim: My family thinks the world drops off a couple of feet from my face, because I normally hold things close to my eyes. There's so much more to our vision, then acuity. Most people think you sit down at the eye doctor and go to the DMV. What's the first thing they test? Read the chart. They're testing acuity. But we're dealing with depth perception, glare sensitivity, loss of field, diploplia and the impact of visual clutter, and everything else. A lot of people don't understand how complex eyesight is.

Kathi Garza: I also feel like people think, you know, if you have poor acuity then it's blurry as if you're trying to see through water or something. No, I'm not dunking any head in the aquarium. It's just ‑‑ there is not enough pixels to make up the picture, you know? Or whatever. You know? So ...

Kim: 100%. I agree. And if it's the way you have seen your whole life and you have seen nothing different, it isn't blurry. At least to me.

Kate: We did a cool powerpoint together on their visual needs and accommodations to give their effort. And also we have 8 minutes left.

Kim: Thank you. That's great. The PowerPoints, those letters. Something for right now, again, proactive verses reactive. Some of the school systems are distributing laptops. And I asked our school system, okay, because every year we have to beg them to relieve administrative rights so that our kids can change contrast, glare, they can install the Chrome extensions they need and put JAWS on it or whatever. One year Windows key didn't work, because administrator rights shut that down. We asked, you know, can you overright administrative rights so we can do those things?

They said, no, we're going to distribute the laptops and the TVIs will come out and deal with that. Why not be proactive, and I will get on the phone or whatever with the technology person and they did. So, then we got the laptop with all of, you know, those setting that is we were able to adjust. The glare, the contrast, and all of that good stuff. So, again, proactive verses reactive. 

I do have to put a plug in for braille, especially if your student is academic. You might know that after high school paper braille, becomes much less prevalent. However, electronic braille is something that-- I have a number of students who have come through the program who are blind and low vision who are braille readers and the electronic braille access has made them very independent. And, you know, they're taking braille classes with me and if I can give them the exercises in .brf and all that good stuff, really think about that. We have some folks who say braille doesn't exist after high school. The fact is it does. If we have accessible media, accessible books, then guess what? We can use those braille displays and they can emboss it up if they need to. 

I will brush over this. In the handout I put some tips that I have about being an on‑line student. And this came from, again, teaching on‑line from so many years. You can read through that.

And I also put in a ‑‑ there is a table in your handout. Just some skills for being ‑‑ things to think about to help your students who are going to be on‑line students this year. And just checklist skill‑type things so you can read through those.

I do want to end off by saying: remember to take care of yourself. Please, please. We can't lose any of you for any reason and also to be a good proactive advocate and to help us recruit new TVIs to enter the field. We are at a loss, we have job openings across the country. Neighbors, people from your community groups, you know, recruit them. Have them come to our programs. Texas Tech and Steven [F] Austin are fabulous programs to recruit for. And we're happy to have Virginia students and others from around the country for George Mason. Recruit for your field. 

I think I saw a couple other things pop up, Kate?

Kate: Patrice said the Chromebooks are killing me. The screen is 2 inches. Well, 13 inches. Her I.T. team is great in giving her what they need for her students, and she's very happy about that. And Kathi followed up by saying Chromebooks is a topic for head explosions all over the Facebook groups. You are not alone and sent a link to a Perkins learning resource.

Kim: Vision fatigue, vision screen. Back and neck problems are a big problem. We are hunched over. Both at school, on campus and at home, we have external keyboards and ‑‑ my monitor but you can't see it because of the background. I have an arm so I can ergonomically adjust it to however i am sitting that day. And both my kids have monitors on arms so they can adjust it so we're not hunched over and straining to see that screen. 

Chromebooks, I don't want to get into a lot of that. But there is challenges. And it's very unfortunate. 

Was there something else in the chat?

Kate: Charlene commented and said a larger and touch Chromebook help a little.

Kim: Yeah. And for me, when I have monitored hooked up to the laptops, that made a huge difference in putting that ergonomically. So, we're sitting up straight and able to see it better. And don't forget, the screen readers. There are other technologies out there too that are really fundamental to promoting access. And I never thought I would be a screen reader user. I learned how to use it so I could teach it to my students. When I entered my Ph.D. program, all bets were off. We were reading 1,200 pages a week and there was no way my eyes could keep up. Definitely having that tool box is super helpful.

And I wish you all a very safe and healthy academic year. Please take care of yourselves! I hope to see you at a conference at some point.