Active Learning study group - Chapter 8 This video is posted online with the following chapter markers: Chapter 1. Learning to Dress & Undress - For children with disabilities, muscle strength and motor ability impact the ability to dress & undress. Chapter 2. Constructive Play - Taking objects out and putting them in another object, taking objects apart and putting them together, learning quantity, banging games, stacking objects. Active Learning study group - Chapter 8 Transcript : Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired Outreach Programs presents Active Learning Study Group, April 7th 2015; presented by Kate Hurst, Statewide Staff Development Coordinator and Matt Schultz, Deafblind Consultant. Chapter 1. Learning to Dress & Undress [ Slide start: ] Hurst: Okay, chapter 8 for those of you who were able to do the reading is about learning to dress and undress. This is a pretty short chapter, but I thought it had a lot of good stuff in there, important to think about. The first question she asks is which comes first? Learning to undress or dress? Well, that's not really hard to answer because it's just a whole lot easier to take clothes off than it is to put clothes on. [ Slide end: ] I have this really cute picture that I got from -- a video from Creative Commons that I want to share with you that will get us kind of started thinking about what it takes and what typical children are doing in learning to dress and undress themselves. [ Video start: ] [Silence] [ Video end: ] Hurst: Oh, never mind, we don't even need to bother with it! [ Laughter ]. [ Slide start: ] What she talks about is for kids without disabilities, they really kind of in some ways up to a point figure it out on their own, especially the undressing part; and if anybody's ever been around a little baby, actually, pretty much any kid, that undressing part comes quickly. Matt: It made me think of -- earlier in the year we talked about how Lilli really paints that picture of these kids are born and they are self‑programming, information robots, skill robots, and, you know, when you think of an infant kicking their legs and having those socks come off, that's the first step to undressing; it's really clear -- it's a really clear example of how they're programmed to do it, you know. Kate: That is true, and I think about all of those cute, little knitted booties that go on babies that fall off their feet almost magically; and the minute they notice it can come off with their foot, they begin to participate, it seems, and try to pull them off. And also that, you know, if they discover their feet, you know, hands don't always have things on them, but feet do; and it's just a natural thing to pull those socks off. It's a great thing to play with. Hats or another thing, you know. I'm always marvelled that these -- especially -- I have a new great niece, her mother is very fond of putting her in the little head bands with the bows; and somehow, at least it appears, in the pictures in the videos, that she tolerates it. But I have never known a baby didn't ripped it off. [ Laughter ] Matt: I wonder if that means, Kate, she's ripped it off 200 times before you've seen her with it. Kate: Maybe so -- that's probably it. That is probably it. And then she talks about when they get -- when they're able to sit, they become interested in laces, and taking and taking off shoes and socks; and I think that baby video we just saw, she was interested in taking it off, and she was wanting to try to put that sock on, but it was kind of a little bit more than she could handle. And then, you know, when you think about it, and I know your baby is still, very, very young, but as they go along, you know, momma starts asking, or daddy starts asking a little bit more participation from them, you know, like one, "Hold still, let me get this over your head," or, "Lift your legs up," you know, and little by little they get involved and then the whole thing about being playful, I mean, what parent doesn't play with their baby when they're getting dressed and what baby doesn't play with their parents getting dressed. It's just -- it's just fun. And then the whole notion of putting hands in holes. You know, I had never notice that or thought about it, but she talks about hands in holes and fingers in holes, and one Sunday I had gone to church, and there was a baby in front of me, looked to be -- I don't know maybe 12 to 18 months old. Sitting up good. You know, doing some things. But in the church service, I got very -- I was much more interested in her than the sermon, unfortunately. Because she would take her hand and run it down the slot where the hymns would sit, and then she'd take her finger and try to poke it in the pencil slot, where the little pencils were left for the people to sign their guest registry, or whatever. And she was having more fun just finding holes and places to poke her fingers. When I read that from Lilli, that was the first time I thought, yeah, I've seen babies do that, you know, they're fascinated by holes. And clothing has lots of holes in it! Matt: You know, I kept thinking back to kids that I've worked with in the past, Kate, that exhibited some of that exploratory behavior, and I really don't think we interpreted it as such. I think... because we didn't understand that it was a step in development, we interpreted it as behavior. Kate: Oh, absolutely. Matt: And...and even some of the stuff that we interpret as play, the kid emerging from the parents room with mom's heels on, you know. It just isn't something that I put in the context of a typical developmental step that is needed to go through to get to that next -- or excessive undressing, you know. Kate: Absolutely. Matt: It just makes me realize how important it is to get this information to our teachers about what these developmental stages look like, so we can help kids get through it, together, and understanding what it is. Kate: And give them learning environments to do that. Because our kids are not going to pick up on it altogether the way a child who is typically developing will. [ Slide end: ] [ Slide start: ] Okay. So she talks about that, they do -- each child is doing more -- in about two years they may undress independently multiple days at a time. I can't tell you how many students that I've had who -- who would undress multiple days at a time. Everywhere, any time you turned around they were doing that. Matt: Completely! Kate: Completely, you know. Then this comment about in Denmark, and I don't know that this would be true in Texas, I would be curious. She said kids who are 24 to 30 months of age during springtime or autumn move through the stage of repeated undressing faster, because they are permitted to do so. Now, I'm not really sure what that meant. That one sort of confused me a little bit. Matt: Well, I was thinking it was because the weather was warmer, if they were taking off their clothes -- the parent finally said, "Okay fine" you know, "Go ahead." Whereas in the cold months, in Denmark, they're going to say, "No, no, no! Put that back on," and hope that the exploratory repetition -- Kate: That's true. I bet you they have so much more to put on in the winter, too, than in the summer. So I don't know. Then she says at three a child takes off a jacket by flapping arms until it falls off. We have all seen that, I still do that from time to time. They begin to undress more independently and unconventionally, not like adults; and I'll show you a real cute video about that in a minute. Their interest is piqued by undressing and then they start dressing with socks and underwear. And I think the underwear is understandable, because they are pretty easy on get on. Socks, again, I don't know, those are not the easiest things to get on, but maybe they're things that they're the most familiar with. I don't know. Matt: Yeah. Kate: And then the child may become very absorbed in this activity and not want help. Oh, my gosh. I can't tell you how many times I have been working with very young, young kiddo and trying to get them dressed and they did not want my help. And it wasn't gonna happen. And, you know, that's a good thing, but it can make you crazy. And then the kids liking to dress in adult clothes for play. I think that is something, I know I sure enjoyed as a kid, and I've always found when I worked with young children that they love doing that. That it was not only fun, but funny to them. So I'm going to share just this little video clip, and this took me back to my days in preschool when we begin to teach kids how to dress and get their coats on. In a different way. [ Slide end: ] [ Video start: ] [no audio on video] And this is a real good way for very young kids. This would be at the top of our group of kids, age‑wise. But learning how to get your coat on and figuring out where those arms go, it's a trick. That is a good technique if you've never used it, I'll recommend it for you. But figuring out how to get those arms in there and get it all in the right place, it would seem like this could be harder, but it actually works very well for kiddos. [ Video end: ] [ Video start: ] Now, our kids, on the other hand, don't do things quite as easily or as well. And I thought that I would show you -- this is a very old clip -- but I thought I would show you this one. Because I thought that it demonstrated both some good techniques, but also it showed some of the challenges that our kids have. So you saw those arms go down, those leg holes there. Those legs aren't as familiar with -- or as confident, I guess, as -- to get in those leg holes, as the arms are. I like that she doesn't over‑help. That she's giving some support, but trying to minimize prompting. Ooh, he doesn't like his hands being grabbed. Okay, here's another thing about getting stuff on. He's definitely got how to get arms in, he knows where his head is supposed to go, but he doesn't have good techniques for getting the rest of that done. You know, he's not really using his hands too well to pull it out of the way. Matt: Trying to just use his head. Kate: Using his head and his body, yeah. And I think, you know, for me there's a number of reasons for a lot of these things. I think, you know, a lot of it has to do with spatial orientation, you know, when it comes to knowing where to put what body part in what thing. I think, in this case, you know, maybe not enough practice with hands, gripping and pulling and learning how to use them that way. Matt: It was making me think of our last chapter about eating, and Lilli was reminding us that the learner is only going to feel what is done to them. That's their first experience with modeling. So it makes me think if somebody for years has been putting that shirt on him, his role was to push his head through. Kate: That's all he had to do, yeah. That's such a good point, Matt. It really is, because unless, you know -- if they can't see they've got to have you modeling for them how it works. And, you know, we don't think to do that very much. So we have our challenges before us with these kiddos. [ Video end: ] [ Slide start: ] And what Lilli says is that these kids can learn to dress and undress just like any other kid, if there is significant, or sufficient muscle strength and motor ability. And I think this is where the Active Learning piece comes in so much because everything that we're doing in active learning is building motor ability and muscle strength for them to be able to do things; both fine and gross motor strength and skills. So I think that that's really important and that's one of the reasons we really want to emphasize Active Learning. So here was some of her suggestions, and I think these are great ones. She said dress the child in clothes, socks and shoes that are easy to take off. You know, I so remember when velcro first came out and what a great invention that was for so many of our kids who could not deal with all of the laces and the ties, you know? And independence is what we want so, you know, that's a really good thing. Provide partial assistance and let the child do the rest. I think that last video that we saw was a good example of his instructor working with him, providing support but not doing it all for him, you know. You could tell that he didn't really -- clearly know what was supposed to happen next or how to do a lot of it. He could do much of it. He could pull the pants up once he kind of had some guidance on what it was about. But he -- he just didn't have it on his own. Matt: Right, but she, like you said, was giving him some space to fill in with initiations, as the familiarity increased, so that he can learn. If you don't give him that space and get in a hurry and don't prioritize, they're not going to develop that skill. Kate: That means they won't develop it. I also liked it, when she did have to prompt him, as much as she could, she used the clothing to prompt and not her hand to prompt, so I think that was pretty good. I would have liked to have seen, this is so old, this little clip is, but I would like to see, you know, the modeling of hand under hand when you are dressing a child and undressing a child, especially the dressing part, you know, get those hands under, riding your hands, having them follow you pulling those britches up, that's how you learn, that's how you learn. Okay. Make undressing a game. So undress and dress and this is a wonderful activity to do with kids. When we had our biggest active learning room here on campus, we had a dress-up area. Set up in the room. And it was full with hats and wigs and socks and shoes, all different sizes and textures and shapes. And we would just simply get over in that room, put a kid on the resonance board, start playing with the clothes. Putting it on and taking it off with them. It was a great way to interact. The kids really got into it. We had wigs, we had all sorts of things. Now, I will say that there is a head lice issue, always be sure that you keep all of those things nice and tidy. But, you know, it's a great activity to do with the kids and because the clothes are slightly oversized, generally, they usually can do a lot more with those clothes. Also, providing the box of shelf of shoes and boots, kids like to put on mom and dad's shoes. That's one of the very early things that they do and giving those big shoes an opportunity to be tried on, gives them the opportunity to actually put their foot in something easily, before they have to put it in something a little more difficult like the ones that actually fit them. They also can experience, you know, shoes that -- how they feel when they go on the wrong feet because they feel very differently, you know. So it's that -- it's -- there's so many textures and smells and things associated with shoes and clothes, and, you know -- and Andy is over here laughing, but yes, some of those smells may not be altogether pleasant. But... Matt: Memorable! Kate: Still a good thing, it's memorable. Matt: Makes me think that the experience itself is probably memorable. I have dozens of boy cousins. We all have photos of ourselves putting on my grandfather's boots. Now it becomes clear, they weren't all set up, we all just did it. And the people in the environment said, "Oh, isn't that cute and let's get a picture," it was a really rewarding situation and it encouraged us to keep doing that type of play, which lo and behold we find out helps us to develop skills. Kate: Exactly. Another great idea she had, she said that you can make a fabric bag and you can attach toys inside it on Velcro. I haven't ever seen this before in any of the trainings that I've been to, but I think it would be great so they could work on reaching a hand in and exploring around for an object and being able to pull it out. That's something to think about. You could also do it in a box, too, where you have to reach inside a box and find something and pull it out. [ Slide end: ] [ Slide start: ] Okay. So that covers clothing. Does anybody have any comments or questions before we go on to our next section? Can you think of ways that dressing could be aligned to reading, writing and math? Well, in terms of math if you are trying on shoes of a different size, we're talking about sizes, we're talking about shapes if we're trying to get two shoes that are shaped the same way. I don't know about writing, but any of those fine motor skills are going to lead towards what you are trying to do to write. If you can't grasp your shirt or anything else, writing anything isn't going to work. Matt: Following a left to right sequence would be a prerequisite in all those areas, right? Kate: Yeah, and just the concepts, too, of knowing what those things are so that language can be attached to it, you know. We might be able to -- I'd have to kind of look at it and work my way back, but just off the top of my head, that seems, you know, to be at least some piece of it. Matt: Yeah, well, I know kids that have had tactile symbols as labels on their drawer and so now you're talking about, you know, words and symbol representation of words, if something interesting happened during a dressing routine you could make it an experience story to read, and have that reading and writing component going. Kate: Right. Or even just labeling clothes and things, you know. That for the child to find the back of the clothes, I mean, that's a very functional independent living skill to find the label to be able to put your shirt on and get it in the right orientation. It seems our teachers have been asked to be sure and align everything to core content. Well, I want all of your teachers to be tuned into the TETN that we're going to have, a little later this month, because we're going to focus on that very issue and going to give you a lot of information that will help you address that with them. Because everything doesn't have to be aligned to the Core Curriculum. For kids who are visually impaired and deafblind we have to focus on Expanded Core Curriculum as well. As I understand it, everything does not have to be aligned. I will say you can make an alignment and we will show you more about that. Can you think of some way to motivate a totally blind and deaf child to want to play dress up with hats, shoes, et cetera. I think get in and play on a resonance board with those activities. Do games -- like some of the peekaboo games is a way to start. Putting up -- something over your head and taking it off. Matt: Have the adult put to clothes -- your question makes me think of something that came up during the symposium when our friends from Norway, Gunnar Vege, mentioned -- what was it? The quote about interesting and interested. "The interested becomes the interesting." Kate: Right. Matt: So if we play with these kids with clothes and make it fun, it will -- they will become interested in that topic, that can lead to the development of skills. Kate: Again, you know, one of the things we did as far as independent exploration is we had an area set up where there were tons of stuff for them to just explore in terms of clothing. And they do a lot of that trying on and exploring it on their own. Now, it doesn't mean they got them on the right part of their body. They may have put the shoe on their hand and they may have put the hat on their foot, but that's the early steps of it. Then as you get into your interactions with them, you know, trying on different hats and where you introduce that object, not necessarily to their hands, but maybe to their heads or you put it on your head, and let them bend down and -- or bend down and let them find it on your head and take it off. Trying each other's shoes on, you know. Taking your shoe off, sitting on the board and make sounds with your shoes and then take your shoes off and explore the shoes and then let them try to put the shoes on their feet, you know. You can do things like that that help them build those concepts. Good questions. Matt: Yeah. CH00:23:38 Chapter 2. Constructive Play [ Slide end: ] [ Slide start: ] Kate: Okay, we're going to keep moving on because we have so much to cover. Constructive Play is the title of the next chapter. And these were two things that Lilli emphasized. To play constructively means to use objects and surroundings to create. And I thought this was really good. Because, you know, I think sometimes we think play is about learning to use objects the way they're supposed to be used. You know? What's the first thing that happens when a kid is given a toy by an adult? They immediately are going to show them the right way to use it. You know? Kids are not interested in the right way to use it. They're going to just do it their way and if they figure out a way that gives them what they want, then they're happy with it. Typically, as we've all seen with kids who can now do more on iPhones and iPads than any adult, they will keep working with it until they figure it out, you know. But I like that whole thing about creating. They're going to use those objects in different ways than we use them and that's okay. Then she also says that play allows the child opportunities to handle objects, to understand the relationship between objects, to imagine, to make decisions, to concentrate and to solve problems. Those are pretty important skills, if you think about it for all learning. [ Slide end: ] [ Slide start: ] So here's some of the ways that she breaks down some of the play activities. And the first one she talks about is learning to put one object inside another. And I thought that was fascinating, she says our first experience of putting into is the hand going into the mouth and it happens as, in utero, which we've all seen it on the sonograms. Then slipping the hand inside the mother's clothes while being breast fed, you know, you see kiddos doing that all the time. Then she says when they begin to look at their hands, they put one hand in another. That was something I hadn't thought about putting in, but yeah they do. That is an experience of putting in. That tactual experience of having something your own hand up against your hand is like having something, another object up against your hand. Matt: Kate, when I was reading this one in particular, I have a three month old, who for the last two and a half to three weeks is absolutely obsessed with his hands. He spends a fair portion of the day with his hands in front of him turning around and around and staring at them, moving them around, touching the other one. You get an idea of the amount of repetition that is required for these concepts to start to develop, you know. It's amazing and again it made me think of when I was a classroom teacher and just if you understand how important that repetition is, you understand how important opportunity is, then you understand how important it is to provide opportunity for those -- that practice. Kate: Absolutely. You know the point that she makes is at this point they still do not realize that their hands belong to them. I think our kids who are totally blind, especially, may not really understand that that is their hand, you know. They don't have vision to help them understand that. So it's really, you know, again, you know, when we're talking about aligning it to the TEKS and writing, you don't know that hand is yours, it begins by knowing you have hands, you can turn and do things with them. She talk about putting hands in any space that's available, we've already talked about that a little bit. Then when they begin to pick up and hold objects, they will bring their object to their mouth, and they will switch hands and we see kids doing that. [ Slide end: ] [ Slide start: ] Then she says they're going to commence to turn the object over while moving it from hand‑to‑hand. She said about eight to 10 months. Now this is eight to 10 months. Think about a lot of our kids that we've assessed with their motor skills at being six months. Okay. But at eight to ten months, they begin to place a single finger in a hole or a crack and that helps them develop their pincer grasp. Later they begin to deliberately place objects in specific places and they begin to play games of taking objects out and putting them back in. Now, they've done all of this, we're past eight to 10 months before they begin to put objects back in. How many of our kids do we start with saying, pick up the toys. We don't have them help us take the toys out, we do that. We want them to pick it up and put it back in. They're not there yet. They're just not there yet. Matt: This is kind of a pattern in Chapter 9. You know, they're able to take things out of the box, before they're able to put them in. They're able to take things apart, before they can put them back together. They're able to stack, but not bring objects back to the area to the stacked space. So all of those skills, they need a partner in order to have repetition. If they take the two things apart and nobody comes -- and nobody comes back they just get one practice taking it apart. Kate: Then it's done. That's why with Active Learning, it's not just equipment and it's not just independent exploration. You have to have time when the adult is interacting with that child. Matt: Such a good point to make, Kate, right. I think if there's a myth out there, in certain circles -- Kate: You put them in a box, they're good to go. No. No. It's not. [ Slide end: ] [ Slide start: ] Puts objects in container in fronts and next to him. And I have seen kids do this when they are playing. They will -- they will -- once they begin to take things in and out, that they begin to sort of put them in specific places. Begins to take object to the world around him, the bars of the crib, spaces within reach. At 18 to 24 months, they finally are beginning to put things in actual containers, but they are having problems because they can't distinguish size -- and this is at 18 to 24 months, so they have to kind of experiment with which one it will fit in. Okay. Much later, he learns to estimate the size of objects and containers just by looking at them. Matt: But after, you know...thousands of opportunities of experimenting... Kate: Practices -- of trying to put it in the wrong thing, exactly. And this is a typically developing child. [ Slide end: ] [ Slide start: ] Then they get to the place where they can hold a container in one hand and use the other to put objects in, and then gradually, at this point, they begin to complete puzzles and display other functions of putting things in. So we're talking beyond 18 to 24 months that they're doing this. How many of us, and I'm just as guilty as anybody else, have tried to get kids at this very low developmental level to do things that require them to put things in, that would have things like those big one-piece puzzles. You know, I have seen it as a goal to complete a one-piece puzzle. It's not appropriate. It's just not appropriate, cause this is a kid who is not disabled and who has vision. [ Slide end: ] [ Video start: ] Okay, so we're going to take a look at a video of what kids are able to do in -- actually, I'm going to keep going. We'll come back to this in just a minute. No, I won't. I changed my mind. We're going to look at this because I want you to see this and I'm afraid we'll run out of time. Because we're getting close here. We're going to look at a kid with pretty significant disabilities [ child vocalizing ] [ silence ] [ Video end: ] Kate: Okay. So just based on that video, what are some of the things that you noticed, Matt and the rest of you guys, what are some of the things that you noticed that this kiddo could do? And what would you think, you know, in terms of his development and what we've just learned about sort of a typical pattern, how far he is along in terms of months, just a guesstimate, I'm not going to hold you to anything. Matt: Oh, gosh. Well just watching, it took him a while to get moving in there, you know, over the course of the two minute video it really did increase. Kate: Actually, this is about a 40 minute video and those were clips from the beginning, and then samples in the middle and then right at the very end. Matt: I believe it. Because it seemed to start really slow. He got to the point where he was holding the pom‑pom, I think, or had a grip on it. That was really the only grip I saw. Kate: Peggy comments he was doing a hand‑to‑hand exchange. Remember we talked about that in that list, they could move something from one hand to the other. He also was moving his legs some. Now, it's important to know this kiddo is in a wheelchair a good portion of the day, he's in A-F-Os. So, you know, there's not a lot of opportunity to move when he's in his chair, get those legs moving. And what I understood about this kiddo, from Scott, is that, you know, they don't typically see a lot of leg movement. But he was doing some and I thought some nice stuff actually. Matt: Twinkle points out he seemed to be exploring more with his feet -- than his hands at that stage. And I saw that at first, too. I saw his toes working the bells, at first, before his hands. Kate: Exactly. He actually wasn't doing much of anything during the whole time I watched this, with his hands. He, a couple of times, went for the little ball on the -- in the red thing that's on the -- to the right of the -- bottom-right of the screen. But it was kind of accidental. He did, however, use his head to move the strings around. But his hands really pretty much stayed in his lap. Matt: And Peggy points out he didn't actively explore until the pom‑pom was laid in his lap. Kate: Right. And the reason that they put the pom‑pom in his lap, is that he seems to like to grasp things that have a very long, thin profile, like a stick. So they were thinking that if they gave him something more stick‑like, he does actually start kind of messing with the objects using that. This kiddo also would, in the long version of this video, he would do something for about the length of time each of these clips is, and then he would take maybe a minute where he almost appeared like he had gone to sleep, sitting up, and then he would come back and do a little bit more. Now, I don't know what his stamina level is. I'm sure a certain amount of it was processing. But, you know, he did actually quite a number of good movements. And what I understand is, his movements, since he's had more time in the little room this year or in active learning kinds of environments, has really increased. He's doing a lot more things. [ Slide start: ] So let's see what Lilli talks about when we're looking at issues for children that are visually impaired, VIMD and deafblind. They do not use their hand at midline. Well, she said they miss the early stages of hand-in-mouth and moving from hand‑to‑hand. I don't know if this is true of all kids, but certainly we do know a lot of our kids have trouble bringing hands to midline for a variety of reasons. They may miss other steps if not provided toys in surroundings that motivate to put hands in containers and fingers into holes, again, that's where Active Learning comes. And they need to be motivated by the sound that is made of putting things in and pouring things out. And I thought this is really important, because this goes about a being to the kind of materials that we select. And if the kiddo is deafblind, you want to also think about can he hear those sounds that you put in. He will probably feel some vibration, especially if it's going into a container that's right near his body. He can feel the vibrations, but the sounds are what oftentimes are going to be the motivator. So you need to pick objects that are going to make a good sound that that child can hear. Let's see, Twinkle says: If there's time towards the end, when do you see it is time to move from Active Learning, types of movement that you would like to notice from the child. Twinkle, I think a lot of that is going to come into looking at the functional scheme assessment and see when they have moved up the scale on that. I think if you -- you know, as you go through the functional scheme, which by the way, we were really thinking about focusing on the Functional Scheme Assessment for next year. We'll have more on that later. When you look at those, it will take you know by month and we know that we're not ready to move into more... traditional instructional strategies until they are right at four years old. And so that's what we've got to work towards, is we've got to get all of those skills up. So, I think that's kind of how you know. You do that assessment and you watch and see what that child is doing. And what Lilli also says, is that when a child is ready to make that next move, you know, or use -- or have a new skill, you keep offering them opportunities to do that, you keep modeling that, hand-under-hand or however you can. But they won't do it until they're ready to do it. So you can't really push them on to that next step. You just have to give them lots of repetition at whatever stage they're in. until they're ready to move on. Does that kind of answer your question? Matt: Kate, thinking specifically about kiddos, now, with very little hearing and very little vision, makes me think of conversations that we had around the symposium with Gunnar and Bernadette, and how important, you know, Lilli is talking about kids that can hear, we have to think about the sounds that might motivate for them. Well for those kids that don't have access to those sounds, thinking about what they are tactually experiencing is crucial, but then letting them know that you are aware of what they are tactually experiencing, which the good way to start that is by imitating how they are touching something, is -- something that has to happen here. Kate: It absolutely does. It does. Matt: So that they are provided with some motivation to continue to explore. Kate: Yeah. Matt: I think sometimes that it doesn't, because we don't imitate them and let them know that exploring with touch is okay, and can be interesting, and can lead to conversation and interaction. Kate: You know, the other thing that Lilli talks about is the importance of having duplicate materials, just for that reason. So you don't have to take the kid's away to get the same result. You let them know that you have the same object that they have in their hand, and when they make that sound and you make that sound, they get -- you know, they get -- Matt: You're with me. Kate: You're with me, you're aware, you understand that we're dealing with the same stuff. You're talking my language. Okay. [ Slide end: ] Andy: Who had the video, at the beginning of the year, with the balloon? [ Slide start: ] Kate: That was one we played early in the year where...the teacher would rub on the balloon -- actually the kid was rubbing on the balloon with the thumb and making the sound, and then the teacher imitated it, and that again -- that's a perfect example for a kid who is deafblind, but especially for a kid that's not deafblind, one, there's great tactile feedback, but it makes a great sound, too, if you do have hearing. That's a good activity. Yeah. Okay. The basis to learning to put things together is to be able to separate them. We've talked about this earlier. You need to have toys that can be taken apart and allow the child to do so. She says that pouring from bottles, tins and jugs is a type of separating an object. I hadn't really thought about it that way, but, boy, it makes perfect sense, you know, and doing, you know, like water tables, sand tables, you know, doing little cooking kinds of activities together where you are doing pouring and things like that, great activities to do. For continued practice child needs help from the adult in putting objects back together, and refilling jugs. So we have to remember that, you know, this is an activity, or there needs to be every day in the child's schedule an opportunity for interaction with that adult around these kinds of things. [ Slide end: ] [ Slide start: ] I'm curious, for a lot of you -- I'm going to keep moving on -- what kind of stuff have you all used for apart and together? I know we've used the brush, the old brush hair rollers are really good. You can do stuff with velcro, so that you can stick things together -- magnets we've used, we've liked them a lot. Those are really fun to do things -- magnets and those little construction toys that you can put together that clip to each other. If you've got some ideas, put them in the chat. We're going to keep rolling here, so we don't miss out on stuff. I took this information and I kind of put it in a chart because I'm visual and it's like. I want to think about, you know, because she would say well any child will do this. But a visually impaired child will do and a non‑visually impaired child will do it differently. So I just sort of gathered this information in a chart to look at it. So if we go down this, and these are the stages, she takes this order; they grasp every single object from the box, letting it go immediately without paying any attention to where it goes. Well we've seen this. We get it in, we throw it out. We have teachers that will say all they do is just take things out and throw them. They never hang on to anything, they never explore it. That's in and of itself is a skill. Is getting something out and just letting it go. Grasp an object from the box, examines it by mouthing it before letting it go. Still without paying any attention to where it goes. The object is not where it goes. The object is just grasping it and releasing it. Both blind and sighted children do this. Now, becomes aware of sounds emerging just after having let an object go. A blind kid will tune into the sound. But a sighted kid is going to be paying more attention to looking -- they look at the direction. They use that sound to look. Matt: And locate. Kate: Look and locate. Where our kids are just oh, I heard something. But it's not about localizing or locating. Then the blind child will throw objects and listen intensely to sounds emerging from this activity. They can consciously throw objects in different directions and listen to different auditory results. So they get to a place of -- what I took this to mean and you guys all chime in if you think it's different -- I took it to me that they do get to having the location of where it is become important, but because they are using auditory to do it with, there's a few more steps of practice before you can get to that place. And I would bet if you and I were suddenly without our sight, that we would have to practice to be able to learn how to locate something in space by the sound alone. Matt: Totally. So yeah, some of that again here -- behavior of throwing objects is really them moving through this developmental stage; needing and demanding and taking more repetition to get there. Kate: They're programming that brain. They literally are programming their brain and they have to have the repetition. Okay. Consciously throws objects in different directions and is interested in the new position of the object. So now it's quit being about the throwing the objects, as much as it is where can I throw it? Where is it going to go? Again they are doing this by sight. [ Slide end: ] [ Slide start: ] Then grasps one object, examines using both hands before throwing and letting go. Both a blind and sighted kid will do this. Places certain objects close to his thigh while other objects are thrown. This is what a blind child does. A sighted child places objects in a certain spot within easy reach. Okay. We can already see that the blind child is -- is using his tactile sense, it's got to be up by the body, so -- Matt: For him to know that it's there! Kate: To know that it's there. A sighted kid, it's where in the general neighborhood to look and find it again, you know. Repeatedly touches objects he has placed next to him as if to confirm it was still present. Does not protest if they are gone. And a sighted child confirms presence of deliberately placed object by looking at it. Protests or replaces the object if someone removes it, or replaces it. So, you know, for our kiddos, they will confirm that it's there, but if it disappears -- Matt: Poof! Kate: Poof! Because -- and I always say this is because their experience is things just sort of poof in and poof out, you know. Matt: So what's to protest? Kate: So what's to protest, that's just how the universe works, things poof in, they poof out. So then the blind child will reach out for recently thrown objects but gives up trying to find it if it's out of reach. Again, if I can't... if I can't touch it, what's the point? The sighted child cries or appeals for help in other ways if not able to be mobile. And if they are mobile, they will move in the direction of the object. So this is again, I think, that difference in I can see it, I know it's out there, I'm going to cry for it, you know. I want help in going to get it. But a blind child will do a little looking, if it's not there, asking for someone to help them find, it doesn't come for a long way down the road a lot of times, you know. They just again, if it's gone, it's gone. Matt: And so we wonder why they're not good initiators, right? Kate: Right, right, right, right, exactly. And then move deliberately after they gain mobility to regain a just thrown object, if quite sure of new position. So, for a blind child, if they are mobile. And I think this is where the difference comes in, when you are mobile and you throw something, and you sort of figured out how to locate it by sound, you will go after it. You are finally able to go after it. But how much more do you have to learn before you do that? Yeah. [ Slide end: ] [ Slide start: ] Okay. Both blind and sighted kiddos pick up thrown objects with the purpose to throw the object again. Which drives us all crazy. [ Laughter ] Having done so, picks up another object, which is also thrown twice. She was real big on throwing objects twice and kicking things twice. I'm not sure if I have observed that. But anyway. Matt: Me, either. Kate: Empties boxes by quickly placing object after object next to the box until gets ahold of an object of particular interest. We have all seen kids going tearing through the toy box and pull out something like whoa, this is it. Then finally, at this point, replaces objects in the box. Both blind and sighted kids do. Places some objects from the box on certain places within reach, not necessarily touching the body. So they finally moved to a place where because of that experience of throwing and learning how to listen, and here where it hits, they're finally able to say there is something out there, I can move and I can go get it. Matt: D Tex points out when filling or reassembling, let, the child follow your hands, so the toy doesn't reassemble by magic. Kate: Exactly. Matt: This person understands the importance of that tactual sense, and teaching through that mode. Kate: Yes. Yes. Now I thought this was interesting, because our kiddos are going to place things in certain places, they don't necessarily have to be touching at this point, but what a sighted kid is doing, they are beginning to put things all over the room -- so again that whole spatial thing is so different, you know. They -- it has to be within arm's reach. It doesn't have to be touching body, but it has to be within arm's reach. They're going to do the same kind of things that a sighted kid does. You know? Developmentally, but the space has to be smaller and it has to be more organized for them to be able to find it. But talking about working on Expanding Core Curriculum, this is Orientation and Mobility. It is. It really is. [ Slide end: ] [ Slide start: ] She says knowledge of quantity makes life meaningful as it is crucial to learning to play constructively as well as performing tasks such as setting a table, shopping, cooking, listening to someone talk about time, etcetera. So these are all independent living skills. Quantity is the big thing. There's is some neat stuff that she mentions in this. [ Slide end: ] [ Slide start: ] All right. An infant without disabilities -- they way they get at quantity is that they suck and kick repeatedly. Now, I wasn't sure about this, but I guess it's numbers. You know, I guess that... that difference of one and many, you know, that is a place to start. That they look at hands and fingers, grasping hands and see how two become one. That's that separation thing. I wouldn't have really... Matt: Attributed that... to that action. You know I thing a lot of these actions fulfill more than one need, or...help build more than one concept at a time. Kate: Oh, absolutely. Matt: But it's true -- I'm thinking about my three-month old -- I'm seeing all this happen, you know, at such a high frequency -- it's amazing. Kate: Well, and you know, it just helps me really be so clear about, you know -- there are concepts being built here. Matt: Core concepts. Kate: Core concepts. I mean these are so foundational that you can't teach them. They have to just be self programmed. Matt: Yeah, the experience! Kate: They have to be experienced. They can't, you know... Matt: You don't realize how much experience the typical kid has with this stuff; and then we get our kids in the classroom, and they haven't had these opportunities for so long, and we expect them to do things at a rate which is just -- kind of ignorant in understanding how this fits in with development. Kate: Absolutely. Absolutely it is. And, you know, when you think about -- we're talking about for a typical child, they're starting this from birth and going -- a lot of our kids do even begin to have an opportunity to do this, some of them until they are like three or four years old, you know. And, what we know about the brain is -- they've lost a certain advantage in terms of the plasticity of the brain -- not that it's stopped, but we know how plastic it is from birth to three. You know, it's just huge! So what she says is every time they repeat an activity they have a quantitative experience. I love that. You know, that repetition teaches -- is about teaching quantity. When they're able to empty a box they learn about concepts of "few" and "many," as well as "full" and "empty." Again, you want to tie this to TEKS... [ Laughter ] Matt: And thing how long they get those experiences, so...much before the language is introduced. Kate: Absolutely. Matt: Experience, experience, experience, experience -- a thousand, thousand times before it's formalized with a word or a sign. Kate: For the longest time I have said and felt in my heart that, you know, if you think of concepts as, like a jam that's being made in the kid's head; once the jam gets made, then you put it in the jar and put a label on it, but you've got to have the jam made first, you know. They've got to have that experiential opportunity to do this self-programming. They really do. Matt: Yeah, it's how we're built. Kate: It's how we're built. [ Slide end: ] [ Slide start: ] Okay. One to two years they start experimenting with putting two objects in one hand and walking up two steps at one time. Now, I thought that was really interesting. They'll put one object in one hand and then one in another, you know. Then they'll do two in one hand and one in another, you know. That's math. They are figuring out different combinations. I mean, they are doing manipulative math. Experiments with how many objects can be in one hand. So again, this is about quantity; how many of these will fit in a container. This is about size, this is about -- you know this is Montessori stuff. It really is. Begins to count out loud, incorrectly for some time. I mean, how many kiddos, "One, two, nine, two, three," I mean, that's it. Then collect groups of toys or cut paper into many pieces. I've seen kiddos doing this; or tearing pieces into paper. And I think our kids, that a lot of them, how much they enjoy tearing paper and I've never thought about that. Matt: You've never said, "Oh, there they are, working on quantity, one of the core concepts." [ Laughter ] Kate: But it is. But it is. Okay, then handles and counts coins, distinguishing between different types and values. This just leads right in to the core things. [ Slide end: ] [ Slide start: ] All right. Our kids. They also do the sucking and the kicking, but because they are unable to see hands and fingers, they don't naturally play those kinds of games. But, they will play the quantitative games if given an opportunity. So, that example of blinds -- where they did that experiment, where the blind babies were playing with the key rings and tea spoons that were hanging down; that they would do the taking them apart and putting them together and holding one and holding more - the remainder in another hand. You know, so they will do those things if we give them the materials to do that. And she emphasis providing our students with multiples of similar objects. And objects that can be separated is crucial for understanding of quantity; and again, she's got lots and lots of ideas in the Active Learning thing -- materials, how you make this, how you do those. [ Slide end: ] [ Slide start: ] Banging games. This was great. Eight to two -- eight months to two years, all babies are playing banging games. And the banging games facilitate the child's leaning to -- I thought this was wild -- compare auditory quality, enhance babbling and vocalization, enhance development of strength in arms and hands, enhance qualitative knowledge, and facilitates learning to use a tool. All by banging. Matt: They know what they're doing. Kate: And, you know, I have thought it. I have heard other people say it, "All that kid does is bang." Matt: "Stop that banging!" Kate: "Stop that banging!" "Can't you learn to do something besides bang?" It's a real important thing. Matt: In fact, so important that kids who aren't doing it need to be taught. Kate: They need to be taught. Exactly it! They need to be taught. [ Slide end: ] [ Slide start: ] So she says it's really important we observe what kind of banging the child is doing, so we can kind of get ideas of the banging games that would benefit them the most. If banging games are all the child will do... she says we start out banging with them and then introduce other actions like separating things or pouring things. So again, we have to think about the materials we're using, but we're modeling another option, and when they're ready to move to that, they will, but they're not going to stop banging until they're ready to make that move. [ Slide end: ] All right. I think we're getting close to the end here. [ Slide start: ] Stacking objects. A twelve to fifteen month old child without disabilities learns to stack by watching an adult stack and imitating. Our kids, of course, can't do that, but they do love to knock things down, and that's the place to start. She suggests using plates and cups made from heavy plastic. And she also emphasis, again, the adult being the one to re-stack so the child can -- and it's not, "Watch me," or "Help me stack," it's you stack 'em up, they knock it down. [ Slide end: ] [ Slide start: ] You want to... give the child an opportunity to initiate it by trying to get it close to them, so if just do anything it's going to go. You don't want it to be too heavy. Because what they typically do, is they're just gonna, kinda backhand it, you know, they're not going to actively push it. Yeah. h, she says the other thing about the -- when you're doing the stacking, you let 'em knock it down and you start with pieces that are beside them. You know, you don't go get new objects that they can't feel. They have to experience them coming down and being dissembled, and then, you reassembling from what they can... Matt: Just really connecting the dots, right, between that breakdown and restructuring. Kate: Yes, and again that's "apart" and "together," you know. She says games should be played at least one to two times daily for as long as the child is interested. And, you know, I don't know. That means it should be going on a lot! [ Laughter ] A lot during the day. And then she says, introduce, occasionally, new materials that produce a different sound to keep the child's interests. [ Slide end: ] [ Video start: ] Okay, this is just a cute last little bit. Let me see if it will play. to wrap it up and to say thank you. [ plastic dishes crashing ] Woo hoo, yeaaaa! [ silence ]