Event ID: 2447376 Event Started: 9/11/2014 6:45:00 PM ---------- Please stand by for realtime captions. >> Olga? Are you hearing our voices? Can you press star six and on mute. >> Okay. >> (multiple speakers) Christie? Can you hear us? If you can press star six. >> I am here now. >> We are not seeing you on camera though. >> I don't see myself how did that happen? >> I don't know. Christie you may want to get closer to your microphone it is not coming in very lovely from here. >> How is that? Better? >> Yes, better. You may have to stop the camera and start it again. The more people on the smaller the pictures get. >> (laughter). >> What is Plan B I tried that, still not working. >> I am not sure, let me see -- >> Hang on there is a couple of options here. >> Video camera at the top hit that and allow it to access your camera. >> I have video and stop start is that it? >> Yes. Right there where it says video. >> I think we are good thing on. Give me a second. Now we are good. >> Okay. We are going to mute again for a little bit. You can mute yours as well by pressing star six. >> Good afternoon folks I see we have a lot of people coming and we will do our best to get you in as quickly as possible. A couple of pieces of information that may be helpful to you guys would be to go a couple of slides into help you with that. This is the one in ADA number -- the 1-888 audio you will use, you should be accessing this on your phone. Several of you have asked where you go to register I will post that in the chat again here in a moment. If you are not registered please you can do this after the meeting this time around be sure you go in and register that will tie into your ability to get a certificate of attendance or credit at the end of the broadcast. Also, to let you know, when you are done with the webinar we ask that you go online to the TSP BI website and complete the evaluation I will send an e-mail blast everyone registered to make sure they have the correct link and when you complete the evaluation you will be asked for a six digit code the first part of that six digit code is 131. It is important and I want you all to write it down. The first part of the six digit code is 131. I will give you the last three digits of the code at the end of the broadcast. You have to stay with us all the way through to get that code if you want to be able to put it in. The other information (multiple speakers) sorry? We are having a lot of people come in here right on the dot. There is good information up here if you need the audio it is on the slide at the top 1-888 450-9986 participant code 973042. You need to be registered if you want a certificate so you can do that after the webinar right now this will change in the future for right now you can register after the fact and when you are registered I will send you a link to complete the evaluation and you will need a six digit code to enter into the evaluation in order to get a certificate. What you need to know is the first part of the code is 131. 131. Write that down you will need it and I will give you the last three digits of the code at the end of the broadcast. I am going to jump back and ask everyone not a presenter today who has been brave and courageous we are so excited about this, who is sharing their WebCam with us, if they would pause their image if you haven't done this before, just cover the cursor over your own image you will see a pause button come up click on that and it will pause your image that way if you need to chat with someone else or if you are eating a sandwich or whatever the rest of the world does not have to share that with you. You can have a little privacy. Also, one other piece of information, technical information during this webinar we certainly want people to share and contribute there are two ways you can do that. You can enter your comments in the chat on the bottom right-hand side but you may also press star six on your phone, that will unmute your microphone and you can speak. However, when you get through speaking for your own -- I have embarrassed myself my the ones. Let me make a couple of quick changes since like where having a little bit of difficulty. >> Let me get back to the beginning of this and I will get out of the mix and turn it over to our presenters for the day and I will be trying to send information to help you guys still trying to come in, in the chat. >> I would like to welcome all of you to our first webinar on the expanded correct year we will be hosting a webinar the first Thursday of each month from 3:00 to 4:00 each of them will focus on one specific area of ECC. A copy of the schedule of those webinars is listed in your handouts, slide number five of the PowerPoint. Future webinars on ECC will be held. Please note while O&M will be discussing today's webinar, it will be addressed further in the October webinar on October 2. Eight today's other will provide an update on the ECC we are happy to welcome presenters to the discussion they will address the legislative changes in Texas related to the ECC including a summary of information from the July 2014 planning session at region 11 education service center. In July, the state leadership services for the blind and visually impaired network, including TSBVI and TEA, met to discuss potential changes to chapter 30.002 of the Texas education code that was generated by Senate Bill 39 and house built 590. They gathered questions from across the state and drafted responses to 28 questions of interesting concern to TSBVI, parents and students with visual impairments in Texas the draft of their responses related to the changes to EC 30.002 is included in your webinar handout. We will review each of the 28 questions and responses today and encourage all of you to participate by using the online chat feature or you can unmute your microphone but we really would appreciate your comments, questions, suggestions. We hope this webinar will provide an opportunity to generate further discussions learning and training related to the ECC. I'm now going to turn the discussion over to Olga. Again to review the document. >> Please know that the question-and-answer document was sent as an attachment to the e-mail from Kate Hurst when you registered for this. There was an attachment to that e-mail. It is a 30 page document, question and answers, we met in July [Indiscernible--static] and these questions were put together by [indiscernible] and some of the ESPA folks from questions all of the asked of the state. All of this is a summary of the bills, all in the back, the very beginning in July of 2013 TEA put out a briefing book that had a summary of these two and you can find on pages 28, 29 and 30 of that document. The language of the law for this document begins on page 18. We are going to start and I will look at questions number one if that is okay with everyone. We will get started. We were assigned questions [indiscernible] and I will do most of the orientation towards the end. Question number one what are the timelines for implementing the new requirements of the new house bill O&M Bill and Senate Bill 39, ECC Bill expanded core curriculum Bill? What are the timelines? Language that clarify the areas of the expanded core curriculum which is included in this document on page 18, 19 was to begin the beginning of the 2013-2013-2014 school year. Again the legislature was clarifying already existing rules. These requirements of the expanded core curriculum are not new. They were just clarifying the roles already in place. The new language in our Texas education code requiring O&M evaluations for initial eligibility and participation of the certified on them specialist and re- evaluations included a statement that the law must be fully implemented the beginning of this school year 2014-2015. You might want to reference pages 18 and 19, which is in the back of this document, which give you the wording and information for that question. >> Now, we are going to go to question number two. Does anyone have any questions? Okay. This is Cheryl I will give you some discussion about question number two. The question is, with this new legislation what has changed in the full and individual initial evaluation? Some things haven't changed as was always the case or the case for a long time to determine eligibility for a student with visual impairment we need a medical evaluation, we conduct a functional vision evaluation and learning media assessment. The biggest single change from both bills is now an initial evaluation must also include an orientation facility evaluation. Through these tools these four evaluation tools medical, functional vision, learning media and O&M we look to see whether there is a visual impairment and visual impairment is impacting learning. I want to note it doesn't say that here, but this is a draft document that will be revised we are thinking probably late October early November.We have been noticing pieces we think maybe should be added to or amended. Number two I want to mention for students who might qualify as deaf blind, decisions and eligibility go beyond looking at visual status of course and must include auditory status as well. We will talk more about that when we get to question number 14. >> Everybody, I think Cheryl just said and Olga said it but I want to say it one more time. Please use the chat section when you have questions. This is hopefully meant to be interactive and each one of these points, then we just hope you will put your questions in the chat box there and we will do our best to answer it because already my staff is coming to me with lots of questions what is this happens or what if I go to this. Sleep you have those questions feel free to type those in there . Thanks. Question number three. If the O&M, FTE and LMA evaluations have been completed and results indicate the child does not meet eligibility of an visual apparent that will adversely affect their education do we continue to address expanded core curriculum? It is a tough question. You have to remember there is two parts to eligibility the first part is evaluation the second part is specially designed instruction which we know is the ECC. All three of those areas of the evaluation conducted LMA, FTE and OEM well it -- address strengths and needs in all areas of curriculum just by nature of you been good vision professionals. You are addressing most of those areas in your FTE LME and O&M@evaluation so do you have to go in depth and do a full-blown evaluation quote unquote in the ECC? No the answer to this question is no. If through the FTE, LME and O&M the child is not polished pop -- qualify as a visual impairment then you do not have to continue an in-depth address those nine areas of the ECC. Again I will caution you all to remember that you naturally address most of those areas and should indicate that as such in those initial evaluation. Moving on we have a question here just a question about captioning. Number four with the new laws what should an individual be evaluation consist of?We already have a question about initial evaluation. What should a reevaluation consist of? It is the same thing again. If you look at what the law says, a child with a disability means a child evaluated in accordance with Texas law 300 as having one of the disabilities which would be visual impairment who needs special education and related services. Talking about reevaluation again, if a student -- sorry -- a student might not only have a visual person need specially designed instruction so what is specially designed instruction folks? It is the ECC. Reevaluation needs to be able to include all of those areas ECC needs to be part of that. Strengths and weaknesses in that reevaluation process. >> As long as the student continues to meet eligibility that the child has for visual impairment then your district, yourself, need to have some sort of process, systematic process going to reach all of those ECC areas that is some things we talked about over the summer and the statewide meeting. The different systems you can use for checklists and different ways you can report the information for strengths and needs in the ECC and as the presentation goes on you will see we will present some more suggestions for you. And of course the last statement there, you'll see this come up several times also is O&M needs to be a member of that committee to determine because if O&M of course is going to be looking at many of the ECC areas also. (multiple speakers). >> We have a question here, Cheryl do you want to read this question? >> At the student is not going to qualify do the expanded core curriculum areas need to be addressed in the functional showing the student does not qualify? I thought the ECC areas were to be covered only for students that qualify as VI? >> Yes that is the question before last we answered this question was for reevaluation the distinction between the two of them if looking at reevaluation, then your ongoing collection of data in order to determine the strengths and needs of your students in areas of the ECC need to be part of the ongoing reevaluation process. Yes you are right Angela. Initially in the in-depth looking at the ECC does not need to happen but for reevaluation your district needs to have a system in place that you can look at those areas of the expanded core curriculum. Good job, thank you. >> Question number five. Hadi document the need for instruction in areas of the ECC? While there is no mandated special record-keeping system [Indiscernible--static] ways to document strengths and needs this is the basis -- I will repeat the last part. This is something that you always need to do you have to have a way to document students visual needs that is the basis for the students class and performing their IEP. Some districts have used supplements to do that and the VI settlement is currently team updated in order to reflect all the areas of the ECC sometimes based -- [indiscernible] include this information in the student folder. Made to a different way or format in order to gather and store this data. Regardless of the system performed used for monitoring and documenting student progress in the areas of ECC districts need to have a way to provide this information annually to the student's educational team. This is the only way they can make informed decisions about students education so yes you need to document it, there are no specific forms you are required to use. I would like to read that we have a question in I think it is a really good when if a student is not currently receiving O&M what able to determine discuss is -- assess as part of the committee to determine assessment. The new piece of this is part of that multidisciplinary team looking at what assessments we need if the student was not previously getting O&M services then what would become logically bring to that committee. Probably either I need to go into an evaluation or data dated to indicate I needed evaluation. You are a member of the team and I would expect bring those questions to the team so they determine whether an OAM evaluation is needed. We will be talking more about that probably as we go on. >> O&M with AA be discussed in more detail quite a few more questions in this document in the next webinar specifically on on them hopefully those will be able to help those of you with those O&M questions. Number six is do we need consent to identify strengths and needs in areas of expanded core curriculum. As mentioned back in question number two and both Christie and Olga also address this consent is needed for those four required evaluations. Once they are required for eligibility and evaluation those are the eye exam, functional vision evaluation, media assessment and O&M evaluation. Support consent is not required for areas of the ECC. Those are areas that are part of the ongoing progress monitoring and diagnostic teaching that occurs regularly throughout the year. As part of all good teaching. Good teachers do this regularly and they use a variety of ways to do that. They may use checklists, some of you are familiar with ECC checklists, certainly one way to identify strengths and needs. Teachers use a variety of methods observation, evaluation, tests, all those ways that good teachers monitor student progress and make decisions about modifications or changes that might be needed, materials that might be needed and strategy.This is where teachers always do or should be doing. You do not need additional consent. I think you have number seven, Christie. >> I do, ready to move on number seven we have never track the need for and instruction in the ECC. It feels overwhelming how do we start. I can give you the sugarcoated answer or I can give you the good answer. I will give you both. I will start with the just do it answer. I totally understand when you have caseloads of over 20 kids and most of them with multiple needs in the ECC area it can absolutely be overwhelming. Issue we have right now is we don't have a choice in the matter anymore. Many of you heard me say before, I live in a perfect world because we started doing these ECC checklists five, six years ago at Region X. It has given us a chance to start the flow and build up. At this point when it came aboard we were ready to go, addressing the needs and strengths and needs without any issues. Part of the training we did over the summer, the one suggestion I have for you guys that might feel overwhelmed and don't simply know where to start, what tools to use, what works best, easiest, how do you prioritize, for each kid. I would just suggest you reach out to your regional service center. Most of the regional service centers were represented the summer at the training and it was meant to be a trainer of trainers. You have lots of resources out there. You have people that have been to training, people that have used a variety of checklists and are more comfortable than others with it. Reach out to your service centers and if they can help reach out to Cheryl at TSBVI. We do want to be able to offer those kinds of trainings on how to use checklists or what kind use. I know Ann is doing this strand of ECC webinars. The just right now is to reach out and ask for help from your service center if you have no clue where to start otherwise, take a deep breath, dig in and get her done. >> I think I like the sugarcoated one. Let me answer.We have gotten some interesting question that for some of you might be self-evident for others are not.Number eight a lot of these questions in the spring and a little in the fall. The question was we have must or made the TBI and COM do these required evaluations together? The law does not address that. I think when you look at the reference number two which is an excerpt from the TEC Texas education code, it is quite specific about some things and not at all about others. The law says that a COM must do the O&M evaluation a TVI must conduct the LMA and both can conduct the FC. That is the law but it doesn't say do it all by yourself alone. I think clearly there is a lot to be gained by collaborating because these assessments together overlapping and very complementary information and I think my practice having different perspectives and different VI professionals looking at the same child together gives a really added richness to the results. So the law says you must do, must be part of it but it does not exclude others and I think it has been considered beneficial and definitely permissible to work together as long as the specific components are conducted, written and signed by the required professionals. So number nine, I love this question. My student has known -- have somebody needs we couldn't possibly meet them all in one year how do I set priorities. Who hasn't felt that way about their student? Who hasn't felt like they have so much to do and not enough time to do it. So this new legislation I don't think you change that at all we are all panicked all the time but we have developed special education a process that is what IDEA outlines. Our process for determining strength, needs and having a committee decide what are we going to work on this year. We all know learners who have many, many challenges but you can't address them all in one year so it is up to the IEP committee with the input given to parents for priorities and when appropriate a student priorities to set a timetable saying we want this priority for this year and we will hold off on the other. The IEP as you know is just a one-year commitment. And it is the IEP committee or [indiscernible] to many whose job it is to determine for this coming year what we will focus on. This is the new set of pressures in most ways, but it does bring it to the forefront of how difficult our challenge is in IEP committee's. >> Number 10 is kind of like number eight can you collaborate with other agencies, other school personnel, and/or family members to provide instruction in areas of the ECC. I think if you look at the law again the references are at the back of this document you can see that the education code mentioned TEA should have a liaison with visual education programs, [indiscernible] the Department of state health services mental health and substance abuse, uninteresting want to be in there, TSBVI and other related programs. Page 19 mentioned contractual arrangements with other qualified public and private agencies that service centers, CSB VI and other arrangements and section 10 even more resources are mentioned. I think state law is quite clear on encouraging collaboration. I think it is also important to say we are really really lucky in the states to have other related East -- resources to collaborate with and many programs provided service centers, [indiscernible] school for the blind and visually impaired. Your students can participate in all sorts of enrichment, summer, weekend, other projects and programs that may never make it into an IEP. We address that IEP in many waysways. The goals put into an IEP as determined by the RF committee are the ones you are taking data on the ones you are working really hard to make sure there is progress and documenting progress but don't think oh my gosh it is not an IEP he can go to a summer program. >> An area of ECP need to be addressed in a separate IEP or can it be incorporated into other instructional goals? >> Great question. Olga would you like to answer that as we move to the next because I think it is related? >> What a good question. Does an area need to be addressed in a separate IEP or corporate other instructional goals? Number 11 address strength and needs for instruction in the ECC area just like Cheryl was just saying really collaboration among TVI and COM's not just them but maybe even the vision -- division of blind services other entities that help their students. Yes they can be incorporated into other instructional goals for instant sometimes in health or social studies you might have social skills or especially self-determination skills I would love for all that to be in all subject areas. If you could pick that out and put into other areas other instructional goals that would be ideal. It really would be ideal so not only during TVI or during O&M time with the student addressing self-determination or social skills but throughout the day with parents and agencies and everyone altogether. Good question. >> Again who can address the strengths and needs? Typically the VI teacher addresses the strengths and needs in braille, code and Abacus together with the calm together you can work on the other social skills it depends on how your district works and your team works again collaboration and teamwork is what we want and what really works best for students. I know someone asked me what about progress reports and this question here reminds me of who is going to take a progress report that is local determination you need to work as a team to write a progress reports to dress the strengths and needs for instruction in ECC areas. That was a very good question someone called this week asking about who is going to write progress reports on ECC's? It is a team effort. I have question number 12. What happened the TVI and COM is a great if the student is eligible with visual impairment. We know that there will sometimes be disagreements to the services needed but remember the law states and we all know that the committee is the one that decides not just [indiscernible] instructor or at the TVI teacher, we cannot decide by ourselves. The whole committee decide at how did they decide? They decide based on outcomes of those evaluations and assessments that the students are required to have. Remember that the committee is deciding not just because I think it is best the deciding on unique needs for our students because our students have unique needs, that's states we provide needs in the area of education, employment and independent living. Remember you need to include some of those needs and a lot of those are in ECC goals should be in our own uncles. If you look at question 12 a lot of people looked at this question but sometimes that be a nice teacher really does not agree on the O&M needs there are O&M needs that maybe the VI teacher doesn't know about and I really feel this child needs O&M again think about the committee will the committee determine if this is a need and sometimes there might be a need for O&M and we need to make sure our students get O&M. According to the new rules remember O&M is one of those assessments required continue working with your art committee so you can come together with the decision to provide the best services for our students success in the home, community and further employment. Later on in life. >> Remember fifth questions post them on the chat or feel free to ask questions out loud. >> Simply press star six to unmute your microphone us question. >> Olga did you address the shocking part of the bottom of that. >> You are the one you were supposed to ask I have on my notes. >> On page 12 are question-and-answer document asks if an O&M evaluation [indiscernible] students need specially designed instruction at orientation and mobility and at the RF committee agrees than the student should be qualified or for services from an on instructor. Now our TEA a liaison has found and we all found in the IDEA 300.8 related service can be required by a child and that related service can be considered special add. So is this there for saying O&M can be considered an instructional service. Again at this time we are going to continue using O&M as a related service TEA is going to review the document and give us more guidance on this it IDEA section [indiscernible] for those one only O&M is required. That is why I try to say remember you need to work together with the RF committee together with the VI teacher there are times when O&M maybe part of the required services of our students it will only be O&M. And you can use O&M as an instructional server according to IDEA section 300.8. And Olga, this is Cheryl we talked with Brent and he has checked this through with TEA lawyers. It is not pending. You can use those now what is not in place yet because even our congressional rules aren't posted yet, this law went into effect as Olga setting question number one in September 1 so we are in but there really isn't a great paperwork ever structure set up yet I don't think the attendance counting manuals and other pieces of paper are lined up. That is the piece that is missing but if in fact this comes up today in a meeting or tomorrow this coming from IDEA there is no question about that, that is a federal law we can abide by.What happened is by O&M being part of the required instructional area to be assessed and evaluated for students with visual impairments, it became an instructor will -- indestructible area by Texas law there for the O&M service can be considered instructional.I think by the time we have the second webinar on oh one and we will have a little more experience. The state will have answered more questions we will know more detail about how that will play out. >> This is Ann. I think the advice for the piece of information that made the most sense to me was comparing it to the speech only kids because I know that within RF committee's when the assessment is taking notes they put the information is instructional related that has always been a huge question helping them see that it is similar to the way you look at speech only kids if it is a child only receiving O&M that makes it easier to look at O&M as an instructional service. That is helpful for some districts look at it in that way. >> Go-ahead. >> I know diagnosticians have already asked but in the attendance accounting how but this is so very new TEA -- has not been on the commissioners rule the TEA still has process I'm sure as soon as it does come on the commissioners role the attendance updates will include this I am expecting that. >> A couple questions that came up so Deborah I wanted to say your question is going to be answered in the O&M section very quickly here about using screening for the need for reevaluation in on him. [indiscernible] does the O&M cover the ECC areas and the next question from Carla about the FEE and LMA. I think if you think about that they will have already been completed because that is part of that initial eligibility and that potentially could be the report that says there is no need for are specially designed instruction and it is the O&M that says yes there is a need. That is the issue now I will tell you guys very personally a Region X, when my vision folks start to fill out the ECC areas and transition areas, we typically see these kids that qualify for O&M but there is really no need in the classroom or academically at that point usually the high academic kids doing fabulous in the classroom but have pretty severe needs and they won't be driving so that kind of tends to be the areas but the VI teacher goes back and starts to look at the ECC areas of transition I am sorry but there is always areas that need some sort of consultation or instruction by the vision teacher. I caution folks you have to -- it is the big C word you must must communicate because the VI and O&M without the communication, it can go the other way also, sometimes I have a O&M very honestly again who would like to save the world possibly and maybe those issues they are having with O&M are related to vision. Maybe they are related to disabilities. Sometimes the communication the talk through with the vision teacher kind of works that out and they can again it is a communication that lets that happen. So far at this point we haven't had any issues at Region X with our kids were there has been non- eligibility through that FCE LMA and there have been private O&M's. I haven't actually had to address that yet. >> [Indiscernible--low volume] >> Pick the most important force -- first. >> Think of priorities. >> (multiple speakers). >> Number 13? >> Sure. I think we are going to get back to Deborah's question go ahead with 13 perhaps what if identify needs in the area expanded core curriculum for a student qualify as having a vision impairment so they qualify under eligibility impairment but the areas of core curriculum are not related to the visual impairment and households is that a little bit so they have a need that is in the area of the ECC but not related to the visual impairment they might have a physical impairment that requires something [indiscernible] intellectual disability, learning disability emotional, another disability, another eligibility area. It says here checklist emphasis is on learning what is identifying need you really need to make sure it the identified need for that expanded core curriculum comes under the visual impairment. This is where a student already under eligibility a visual impairment. Do you want me to go back to that one? >> Yes if you would. >> What would a scenario be in which a student will qualify for O&M but not VI. Christie touch on a little bit. These high school kids -- I had a student meeting braille high school kid COM, low vision some braille, so many needs so many VI needs think of that student who is a low vision students. And they qualify for some O&M they are going to be going on to college, they need higher-level O&M and they are doing really well in their academics. That might be a student my need O&M but not VI. I could probably always find some VI needs [indiscernible] social skills, living skills, required under visual impairment as a student with visual impairment. It is hard to find students that would qualify and not VI. (multiple speakers). >> I want to read Marianne's question it is a good one. Is there anything in special ed in special ed law that determines who and how evaluation reports are given at initial reviews or through meetings meaning if a COM is not at a meeting of the report is given by another person like the TVI, is there a document the parent confined to recognize the person is absent but they agree with that report? My quick answer, oval or Christie in might have another answer, is in this case this is not different than any other service related person who might not be at the RF committee so what ever your procedures for that within the district would be followed for the O&M. Maybe more to that answer than I am thinking. >> I think you are absolutely right. We were trying to figure out ourselves because we cover so much territory at Region X. The question is going to be answered again but I will tell you in a nutshell it usually helps to hear it a couple of times the way we figured out how we are going to do that when the O&M is going to be part of that that looks at existing data to determine the need for reevaluation is we are going to fill out a form kind of like what sometimes OT's fill out and it will be a data collection form that will be handwritten NCR copied and handed over to the vision teacher or whoever is leading that to be able to have their input because a lot -- the law doesn't say and O&M has to be at this point and again that will be addressed are Mike one thing I will say now and again later is every district needs to handle the issues of confidentiality. You are going to be collecting information, confidential information on a student, you need to make sure you comply with the district confidentiality rules. So what ever if you are looking at files, speaking to people, calling parents, laying eyes on the child make sure those are all things you can do according to whatever the standards are of your district confidentiality. Yes we use a form as part of that process. >> There was a question from Michelle am a I was starting to type an answer. I would like to give a better one so in the chat box I'm just going to savor the moment this is an ongoing question and new legislation didn't change any. She is asking is there a way when you have a child who has other areas of disability for example we talked about kids with intellectual disabilities or physical disabilities. You the TVI or the COM might think that is as impacting their learning as a visual impairment you think they ought to be qualified as eligible under those areas of eligibility. But your team says no they are blind, visually impaired we can sort that out. That is such a tough decision to make. I recognize that. There are processes called differential diagnosis and there are wonderful materials by [indiscernible] making evaluation meaningful I can help guide you through that taking particular other areas of eligibility, guiding a team to tease out the differences. We should probably do another training on that topic. Thank you for the question. This new law didn't change anything in regards to that. >> I need to respond a little to that too. >> Thank you. >> On the [indiscernible] network website, the state leadership services network website which is on [indiscernible] if you go there under assessment if you go into our website under assessment [indiscernible] presented some information [indiscernible] conference in 2011 and her PowerPoint on how to assess a student visual impairments in the area of autism and [indiscernible] [audio cutting in and out] intellectual disability I know she and I updated the one about intellectual disability last year to talk again about the autism and LB but they were there and it was diagnosticians and administrators what items to use a specific test to document a student with visual impairment is truly or can truly be LB, ID or artistic. Use those sites to help you. >> Great reference. >> It is this is Ann I want to [indiscernible] have done so much in the area about students with visual impairments who have other issues impacting their educational performance. And acknowledging yes it is a difficult assessment specialist to rule out visual impairment as the cause. Regardless of what the label is often have that as the question that the team struggles with. Identified needs need to be addressed at it as a team process to address those needs regardless of what the label is so they've got to have a good assessment to identify what those needs are and it is a team decision on how you handle that. They need to work together on that piece. >> Olga we have questions about the website address could you give that website address again? She is going to type into the chat. >> Great. >> I am going to go I love this conversation I will go on with the Q&A document, keep writing your comments there I am glad there is four or five of us watching that chat it is hard to keep up with. Number 14, do the new laws and Texas education code section three .00 to apply to children [indiscernible] deaf blind the answer is yes. Yes. All students with visual impairment are covered under this legislation so a student who has a visual impairment and (multiple speakers) level of disability would be covered. What I want to point out is, as it states here -- in the reference on page 22, you can see in section 2 letter C there is an additional criteria when determining a child's eligibility as deaf blind. Section 2 C says that a student may have documented hearing and visual losses that considered individually, on their own, may not meet the requirements for auditory impairment or visual impairment. For that student however, is the combination of those losses adversely affects the students learning, educational performance, then the RF committee looks at the evidence and can determined that the child is deaf blind.Even if they don't qualify, this is what I was referring to question number 2. Even if they don't qualify wouldn't necessarily qualify based on for example the cuties alone. Perhaps they are low vision that their vision seems to be working pretty well for what they need. But a combination with a hearing loss they are really having trouble following in the class. Those children can be considered deaf blind. >> One of the things I have noticed when I have worked with different districts is I report seems to carry so much weight certainly with families they will hear a doctor say X Y or Z but I encourage all of you to remember that is only one part of the eligibility. What you find when you do your functional LMA is so important and how they use what ever fish and the doctor may may not find in that clinical setting is a small piece. Used in a functional situation educational environment etc. community is the important thing. >> Absolutely I think that is a great point. Number 15 a similar. Due to revisions to tease section 30.2 is it to apply to students visually impaired and intellectually disabled or have additional disabilities and the answer is of course the law applies to all students with visual impairments. We have to have a lot of tools in our toolbox when you think about the range of students that we are trying to serve well from him since all the way through students moving onto College or student staying in school since -- until they are 22 with a range of academic abilities functional abilities, range of visual and other kinds of sensory abilities. Just reinforces what we already know that we need to have a variety of tools to get -- to do the kind of evaluations well the functional, LMA and O&M evaluation know one tool will cover all of our students. But, the law covers all of our students. Sixteen. >> This is Olga I have number 16 so does the Texas education code 30.00 to apply to infants and toddlers (multiple speakers) a better apply. >> (laughter). >> Yes it does apply to infants and toddlers please please please make sure you [indiscernible] infants and toddlers. In Texas, children are served from birth to to go -- birth to two -- that includes our students. Infants and toddlers. Like Cheryl said we have a whole age range but because of the overlap the TA with E CITA sometimes that sometimes has come in and helped us by providing us with an MOU to ensure that our infants and toddlers are thought about when ECI early child interventionists are providing services along with their teachers of student visual impairment please include our infants and toddlers in on these evaluations. You might want to see page 23 of this document for further information. Again I would like -- I like what Cheryl said the law covers are student needs. Please refer to that. On number 17 I have that also if an infant is being initially evaluated for services should anoint him evaluation be part of the evaluation? Again at the very beginning we talked about how there are four evaluations required for eligibility or a student to be eligible for visual impairment that includes infants and toddlers. Remember 0 to 21 or birth to 21 remember they should be part of the initial evaluation for ECI services. Functional vision evaluation, learning media assessment, O&M and our doctors of atomic tourist report please please please make sure that is all included. I think Christie has the next one we will start on them questions. (multiple speakers). >> Question about on am I think Christie is going to address as we go forward. >> Before -- >> I know we will get to it (multiple speakers). >> For infants and toddlers I am preaching to the choir because I know all of you O&M are observing infants and toddlers. What administrators don't understand what to do with infants and toddlers in the area of O&M just pull up the gross motor section out of all of the baby curriculum [audio cutting in and out] pull out gross motor provide those students with gross motor. That is your O&M. That is your [indiscernible] if they can't move that is why they need O&M. Mobility. >> Thanks I will answer [indiscernible] question because it is much easier than that my favorite, Marianne's question. Excellent question because it is easy to cover all my areas of the ECC for academic low visions didn't we have other great tools to use when looking at the ECC areas for multiple visually impaired students the what do you use babies. Any tool you use such as the Oregon project or insight or any of those tools can be correlated to the ECC areas so very easily. My answer to the question is is exactly what you are using already. Go ahead and reports the areas of strength and needs according to the Oregon areas because every area of the Oregon project can be correlated to an ECC area does that make sense?I hope it does because you think you need to go and use outside tools but you really don't. You can use those tools you're currently using right now when evaluating babies and infants when looking at curriculum to develop instructional strategies for babies those are the same thing you can do they all correlate the ECC. Very good question. So I think I will scroll back for question and look at Marianne's question about how the to do with a variety of environments in the home. And that is coming from you not on O&M so the question there. You need to address every O&M, a so box thing with me, within your evaluation. In the various lighting conditions, you need to address those kinds of things even as simply as severe program student going indoor to outdoor when they are transitioning from school to the bus. When transitioning in the cafeteria, passing the windows to the cafeteria. Those are addressing different lighting conditions appropriate for that population when looking about in the home and the community you should your judgment your best sense absolutely positively impact three -year-old, four -year-old, five -year-old needs to be -- need have those areas addressed outside of the school that they are in. You can meet parents after school in a perfect world. You can meet parents as they are picking up a child and follow them home in a perfect world you can minimum interview parents and ask what the issues are and if there are issues that come up in the interview process absolutely include those outside the school evaluation areas for that child. So it is hard to address I think you start with what you know with interviews in data collection and move forward if there is a need. I hope that sort of answer that maybe next week or next month when the O&M discussion comes up that is the big issue we can go back every address that one too. >> Just thinking about the issue Marianne brought up about interviews as one tool for gathering information, certainly that is a tool as we all know sometimes interviews don't get all the information or you get different information about the people. So anyone tool may not give you all the information you may need so I encouraging certainly part of the evaluation process which is not what we are doing here but one tool may not be enough.The Oregon project for example which has been updated really covers more than it used to is not broken down into small increments like insight for example. There are a variety of ways so bad might be an area we want to look at further as a field or at least in the state of Texas what is a good evaluation to use to gather information. Observation, interviews are certainly pieces of that. >> Excellent point. Anymore questions? We will move onto orientation and mobility. Number 18 we are on. What is the role of the COM evaluation and instruction and all other areas of the ECC? Everything. Your role is absolutely criticalcritical. This funny I get this question because it has always been the responsibility of my vision teachers to be leaders of the band when it comes to ECC and O&M just kind of hang back and fill out their little part here in the there but as time has gone on you'd be surprised at how much of a stronger role O&M are taking looking at ECC areas you guys know they have more information if they are serving that student on social skills, daily living skills, some in different areas even assistive technology is addressed in O&M with the use of GPS in cell phones and all those kinds of things self-determination is huge in areas of the ECC for O&M. The O&M has to be part of the multidisciplinary team and looking at data for eligibility. But the child is eligible child with a vision impairment you have to look at specially designed instructions. O&M's role has to be 100% involves in that process of looking at with the specially designed instruction is. All the way to the point now where we realize potentially TA says it can't be the instructional service. Some of the ways that folks are struggling with how O&M is going to have the input, there is suggestions here on page 11 that the O&M can do their part of the evaluation even in their very traditional O&M evaluation you can specifically address ECC areas. You can delineate out there if you want to ensure that report. As I expressed earlier my group is doing some data information gathering sheet for evaluation purposes you can use that as information and data to be able to share of course the O&M can be part of that process, simply get together as a committee and discusses those needs. So all of those are above. It is your choice as AVIT sure, O&M coordinator to have those options and how the O&M is going to be involved in this ECC and how to address that. So let's all work together that is the end of that one. >> I think you can sing at that point. >> I usually do. >> So number 19 moving on to 19 O&M evaluation clear areas of ECC yes. Absolutely. Just to review that over and over again. We have our template we use for O&M evaluations if you want to include areas specific to social skills living skills and address those things right there more power to you what a wonderful way and part of the child's permanent files or folders, portfolios right there in the evaluation where you are for the reevaluation were you looking at strengths and needs adding those things to the platform very good. Number 20 and other favor one what happens if a TVI and a COM disagree on whether a child is eligible as a student with visual impairment. The same question and answered already. We just put it up on in section here. Require communication folks and the bottom line is eligibility is based on an RF committee not just two people. I really really advise you to speak to parents and to the teachers and the whole entire committee to make those decisions. And not just leave them up to the folks the eye and on them. >> With the Cheryl I want to answer that federal law is very clear that eligibility and instructional decision should not be based upon one evaluation. They must be based upon a range or variety of assessment tools and it gives us all a little breathing space I think the wonderful thing about this new law is the language in the long that I like as a TVI is I am no longer responsible for making a decision as to whether I'm going to invite and O&M to look at the student or have an opinion about the student coming from their professional background so I think we can view this new regulation kind of as a gift that we are sharing those decisions more widely and ultimately of course with the IEP committee. I like to look at it positively. >> Again sounds like we are repeating some of the questions, but the specialists know this document was really two documents there was a document for the ECC and a document for O&M and we combined it and made one out of two documents. If it sounds like we are repeating we are really emphasizing the importance of O&M now in this section. >> Number 21 who can provide orientation ability to students in the school system of Texas? Notice it says Texas according to the Texas administrative code 89.1131, it tells us that an orientation ability instructor must be certified orientation and mobility specialists and certified by the Academy for certification we know that Academy for certification of vision rehabilitation education professionals. Make sure that you keep up your certification if you are providing services to students. Related services professionals again the same law, the same question might come back who is it that provides travel training, that is explained later on in IDEA and the commissioners rules April but you can see in the side-by-side for services by and O&M instructor it is someone certified number 22 or happens after on an evaluation COM and TV I disagree about need for services that was question number 12 we covered a little earlier. Again please refer to question number 12 but remember that the decisions are made by the committee inviting COM to the meeting is important you have a way to do that now they need to perform evaluations prior to the determination of eligibility sometimes because those evaluations are so adamant about providing services we must include those O&M COM and that. Make sure they are there. As the is outlined the membership is outlined in the Texas administrative code you can look that up. It is exactly who should be there and why they should be there. I encourage you to include in your [indiscernible] committee will be a team. Inviting team members to attend either electronically by phone might be an option. >> Moving under question 23. Awakened should area here a lot of questions are coming out of this. If a student has received a knowing of evaluation in the past and did not qualify for O&M services, does that student have to be reevaluated again at each reevaluation? They do not necessarily have to be reevaluated again. That is the caveat here. The O&M has to participate with that team in looking at data to determine the need. Folks, if something happened in the middle and the child is up for a three-year evaluation and two months before the child ran into soccer polls on the field and detached retina as and is losing vision is and that kind of a no-brainer they are going to need a O&M evaluation right away? Use common sense of these kinds of things the losses the O&M needs to be part of that team in considering the data to see if an evaluation is needed. That is what the law says if an evaluation is needed then you do it. During that three-year evaluation process. Some of the ways we talked about this earlier also some of the ways you can address that are to just invite the O&M to every meeting so if it comes up, the need for any reevaluation, then they are there to discuss that. That is probably in most of your circumstances not possible because you are stretched then and the territory is too large to cover. Another option would be to include a consent for O&M evaluation at the read time. That is another one if you want to automatically re- evaluate every three years with the FIA cycle you are more than welcome as a committee decision or read committee decision to make that and asked for the reevaluation for O&M. Or another option would be you could request the statement the way we are doing it, a form you fill out the district gets the required consent ahead of time and the evaluation reviews the data determines the need for that evaluation. Several different options to consider each of you have the prerogative to choose any of those whatever works best for you and when you sit down with your directors and administrators and talk about those kinds of things. The last point you have to remember if there is a need before the three-year evaluation please address the need. Don't wait for the evaluation that is the minimum standard any time something happens and the need comes up you need to consider O&M is being evaluated from that point. That is 23. >> Christie before you go on there was a question I think many people have in their minds and the question is do you need to evaluate all students in all three settings home, school and community? The example given was a student with multiple disabilities and visual impairment or a medically fragile student required to evaluate all three settings. >> In my opinion just in my opinion it is required you address a need for evaluation in those areas. If you talking to a parent and have found on or talk to a classroom teacher who has taken the child on a filter before possibly and there has been established a need they struggle in those unfamiliar settings, you would probably need to make arrangements with the family or school district to do that. If the parent says to you no we have to medicate our child and put them to sleep before we take them outside because there are adjustments to the lighting changes and such caused so much havoc and seizures we simply don't go out that often. It is a law also a very judgment call if anyone has any thoughts about those in the best circumstances you would try your very best to accommodate all three of those lighting, unfamiliar and the third -- totally gone from my head right now -- >> Variety of environments. >> Right. >> I think I would like to (multiple speakers) sorry? I would like to separate that question into two parts I think there is a really important different question when talking about medically fragile children. And this doesn't have to do with whether they are blind or visually impaired or anything. You want to give precedence to their medical needs to me that is a no-brainer. I actually -- no IEP committee in the country would say I don't care if the child will die if you take them outside, just do it. The law calls for that. That is not going to happen. I think in the case of children with medical am a significant medical issues we have quite a lot of those around our state, go by common sense but really there are medical protocols parents are probably the best resource for that. The other answer for kids with multiple disabilities it's really different in my mind and when I see is children with additional disabilities especially including intellectual disabilities some members of the team will say he never goes along in an unfamiliar environment. We don't need to look, we don't need to go there. He does great, always comes with me I always hold his hand and I have heard of variation of that across the state and I think that kind of comment that led to have to maybe not that many but many students with additional disabilities who never caught O&M for an evaluation. I regret that. I think now we have the opportunity to say let's try. What happens when this child goes to an unfamiliar environment and I don't hold their hand? Is there something and O&M could teach a student? In the future maybe not today but in the future they could be more independent and they don't have to be reliance on going with other people. I think we have a real opportunity to make a difference for those children. >> I think that is absolutely perfectly well said. I will even take it a step forward to say I remember in the past it barely three -year-old in PP CD having an O&M evaluation it was hard for the district to take kids off campus so the O&M evaluation did not include unfamiliar settings for this barely three -year-old and the parent question that. Sure enough when the evaluation continued in the child was taken off campus there were so many concepts severely low vision sensitive child had that needed to be addressed through on instruction. That is in place for a very good reason. We don't need to look in the familiar environment we are in as far as OM is concerned. We need to be looking at a variety of lighting conditions and the reasonable about that. >> I think that is clearly certainly medical issues you have to consider but truly emphasizes the importance of the communication collaboration between all the team members. We as teachers would not -- with knowledge of medical issues families dealing with need to be respectful of that other -- they may not be aware of opportunities the child is missing we can help work with that or something we can't address down because of a medical issue that is paramount but that doesn't mean you never go back and address it later you have to have those conversations with parents to let them know what you are hoping they will be able to do and if you can't evaluate this today, you might be able to do it six months from now. >> Great point. >> 24. >> White as a rule stay at TVI should make recognition on you for knowing of evaluation? I am not really good at the legal component of this but I kind of sort of got it figured out enough to understand there is a federal law and a state law and a Commissioner role and they all kind of interpret each other. Sometimes they don't play well together either and don't get their dates straight. And ducks in a row. In sometimes the interpretation of the laws don't get done at the same time the laws get changed. That is what has happened Commissioner rules still says we need to be it through the FCE LMA process need to be addressing the need for an O&M evaluation. And until they rewrite that which should be any day we hope we are advising if you like you can continue to keep the statement we have written in here, comments must be part of the multidisciplinary team and evaluating data on which determination the child eligibility is based and part of the team making decisions on the scope of re- evaluations there for a recommendation on whether a node of evaluation needed will need to take the COM's put into consideration. That is a statement you can use you're welcome to use anything else but for right now until commissioners rules have been updated and that part taken out of it and the new part put in, that is why we are still at their part. >> There was a question about where you would write Tracy suggested putting under recommendation. >> Exactly. We put in our reports under two places we always had the need for O&M evaluations right between SEE and LMA and our reports. We put a statement there at the end under recommendations when looking at the low vision evaluation, we put a couple of checkboxes that say I could share the if need be but off the top of my head I will say one of them says and Alan M as part of the multidisciplinary team that -- and O&M was part of the multidisciplinary team that reviewed existing data and determine need for O&M evaluation no need for owing of any out -- O&M evaluation or another chat box said O&M is currently completing an O&M evaluation as part of initial eligibility something like that. We gave a couple auctions and that recommendation part. >> Again in the briefing book the TEA put out in July 2013 when you look at [indiscernible] summary of that it does say that the bill requires an O&M evaluation form and as part of the special education eligibility consideration. It is an eligibility consideration for an O&M to provide an evaluation. There from TEA in the briefing book. That is good too. >> On page 29 of the document. >> Thank you. >> Number 25. You all remember back on 23 this looks exactly like 22 that there is a huge difference back on 23 this is about it question if a student has received an O&M evaluation didn't qualify initially what do you do. This question on number 25 is for a student who has never had an O&M evaluation when will be evaluation be requested would it be requested at their annual ARD at their each evaluation time period at a three-year you evaluation or another time. So let's go back and look at what the law says. Initial eligibility has to happen. So that timeframe already past that is when the law with the child first became a student with a visual impairment. The thing is the one thing people keep thinking is it is not time for a three-year evaluation right now but time for an annual ARD and I need to do it O&M evaluation. That is not the case. The second paragraph says districts are not required to be duly evaluate every student with visual impairments who is being served as the hour but who has never had an O&M evaluation. When do we need to be considering this that is a three-hour evaluation what do we need to get our common in any time between that time period -- are comments -- a child they needed O&M evaluation because circumstances have changed there is a need. Don't panic now, just because in ARD is coming up but panic if there has been a change. And there is a need.That is kind of how that works. I think I clarified that and after the sound good girls? >> Sounds good to me. >> Okay. >> There was a question about is a service provider is duly certified can he or she count as both VI and COM and the answer to my knowledge is yes of course you work hard for those credentials use them. Talk to yourself to make a nice conversation. >> (laughter). >> 26. Is a COM required to attend every ARD for student visual impairment? Even if a student is not receiving or has not received an O&M evaluation? First of all remember the new law has the requirements related to attendees or committee meetings. The COM's however must perform an evaluation prior to initial determination of eligibility be. For eligibility there needs to be an O&M evaluation. Required ARD membership are located in outlined in a 9.1050 and that has not been change. We are not saying they must attend or must not attend or cannot attend what we are saying is the requirement is there needs to be in evaluation prior to eligibility. And O&M yellow -- and O&M evaluation. Now districts have local controlcontrol, all very different from district to district even next door, same regional area, inviting COM to every ARD meeting is outlined as to who is required and please go -- maybe we need to pull that out next time, pull that out and put it in here, who is required to attend ARD's. Depending on what is included in this ARD. So these laws -- the law does not require the ARD committee meetings he attended by COM. However you and I know that if something is going to be discussed, changed, you might need to be there. Again we are not saying what the law says or requirements for the ARD. What we are saying is the evaluation of orientation and mobility needs to be included in eligibility. Is that clear? As mud? >> I think one of the things we talked about earlier, this is Ann again, if for whatever reason the O&M professional is not at the ARD and if they send their information or whatever they send it with the team -- be it diagnosticians and in writing also make sure you make sure it has been included in the minutes because a lot of times there is a time lag between the time the ARD minutes are written and the time they are actually distributed and might be something is liable to fall through the cracks. I can't encourage that strongly enough. I think one of the biggest changes of this law is an increased awareness that we have to document what we are doing. I don't know if we have said this yet in this webinar but I think it should be said many of the ABI professionals probably most of us have been providing instruction in multiple areas of the expanded core curriculum throughout our career some of the comes up pretty regularly incidentally with her students. What I think hasn't been done consistently is documenting the instruction and the results of that instruction the progress students have made so a by the time the student graduates we as a team can say yes we know that these areas of expanded core curriculum are the areas students with visual impairments are most at risk for challenges in learning we have addressed it we have tried we have looked at assessment we have talked to parents we have worked with the team we know are the student is in all of the areas and address the ones we can in the time available we've done the best we can. We are doing now with this new legislation hasn't really changed most of what we do other than the initial O&M evaluation be required and the team involvement of the COM now what we need to do is we need to document a little better I think if we think of this legislation in that way it is like all the other laws making this document things in some ways and otherwise really help us prove our case. >> If there is a question in the ARD, related to the O&M evaluation and you might be a question in the evaluation results it is a good idea to include the orientation mobility specialists are not say no you can go there should be invited if it was up to me they would always be invited. So they can discuss what was evaluated and what is written up in that evaluation. As needs and strengths. It is not a requirement for this law. Number 27. This is one we have all heard of and we've all seen can a child receive all O&M services under section 504? O&M is included in the definition of services under 504. There for O&M services can be provided under section 504. Now 504 is civil rights and you can look this up there is some information there on where to look this up the orientation services would be provided using local district funds. The district cannot use special ed funds because special ed funds are for special ed students. When I talk to administers about local funds, local district funds what are those and I go into explaining that. Remember if a student needs special ed services O&M to be provided as a special ed service and not under 504. However 504 does list orientation and mobility as a service that can be provided by 504 which again is an office of civil rights guidance. Any questions on that? I know there are students out there being provided services in orientation and mobility under 504. I have a question from a special ed director that went to -- I wanted to say the agency name but it is a law firm that most school districts use. He responded to the special ed director very good wording that if the child is a special ed student they should be provided special ed services. It is including O&M, O&M should provide under special ed services. Again 504 does include O&M as a service so the answer is yes you can be provided if this is a question yes it can be provided O&M under 504. What it has to be with local funds. >> I think we are down to the last -- >> We have a question. Providing O&M under 504 be different from providing O&M as instructional services like the student mentioned that didn't need the eye. You want to answer that? >> Gosh. >> I think it goes back to the decision that the TV don't necessarily have an IEP team if you are saying they're not special ed that maybe the family is part of the discussion if you are served under an IEP if you are served under special education there are books relating with the special ed system is like and what those protections are like and what the process is like. Conversely 504 specially because it is so locally controlled has fewer controls.I think the parents and teachers surrounding the student trying to decide should we do this under 504 or qualify them under special education, want to be mindful of what is again and what is to lose in the conversation. >> I think the question the issue also specifically designed instruction would be the O&M and I think the excellent point whether it is specialist funds or local funds being used to fund that and to me that would drive that conversation. >> A good. There are families who for a variety of reasons a reluctant to include their students into the special education system. Perhaps that is the time. I have not seen a lot of students getting O&M outside of special ed. I have a know here, we have another way of chatting O&M can help arrange a playground for safe travel is no direct student time in 504 so if it's not even a direct service to the student if what you're doing is helping a district arrange the environment for safety. That might be a perfect use of 504 thank you. (multiple speakers). >> Tracy had a question about what is there to gain if services is provided under 504 I think you're saying why 504 as opposed to special ed. I think for some people calling a special ed would be an issue they have not accepted, wrapped their brain around a variety of issues. Again I think it would be the focus of the team and educators involved in the team to explain the differences in the two and what would be gained if they are providing specially designed instruction for students qualify. >> It is not only just a parental preference sometimes it is a difference -- a district preference who would prefer to have 504 instead of special ed and so it can be from that side. >> Actually that's [indiscernible] Texas the last year or so there has been a push to serve kids under 504 as opposed to special ed to reduce the number of special ed numbers. In my opinion. >> What is to be gained if provided under 504? Really I think goes back to individual student situation. Districts are interested in having kids in special ed because they are monitored under that frankly it is one of those numbers they watch. Really when you come down to should this individual student be served under 504 or be included as eligible for special education a specially designed instruction then to me you have to look at the process that will guide their educational journey under both of those. Some kids are so appropriately served under 504 they needed to sit close to the board, they need specialized materials, the playground rearranged and they are good to go.Why would you want to crank up the whole special ed machinery for that kind of a service minimal service support services.Then there are those other children who need more than that, they need more direct monitoring, they need the protection frankly of IDEA in order to really benefit from instruction and make progress for their lifelong learning. Words IDEA uses as their goal and mission. I think you really want to go back and look at the individually. Even if the district is a no we will put them under 504 we want to make sure you look at the individual student or if the parent says that. I think it is challenging. I noticed you had a comment that Jim Walsh statement about 504 and special ed several of you may have that as a reference. The legal stuff Jim Walsh has done. I don't have a copy of it but -- someone might have that? >> I see what Liz is saying you may give up special ed you might not automatically get 504 because the qualifiers for 504 are different so it is a life altering whatever the wording they use in 504 if you can't show that you are ineligible for 504 absolutely you can get into the question what -- you can get into a situation too. >> What you are talking about too the future access to available services need to be considered. >> Absolutely. The last question is just as controversy Liz number 27. If a child is in qualify for special ed under IDEA or a child with visual impairment with the service then they called travel training? You can read all the instruction there but my few word answer is O&M's just don't go there (laughter) we have the definitions there of what O&M is for designed for children with visual impairment and travel training there is a great definition in the law about what trouble training is all about. O&M's aren't qualified to do travel training I have heard of a few who have been asked to do some travel training I don't know how that is work for them or not but they are two different services as a statement says overlap in the content but O&M instructor is not trained to do travel training bottom line. >> I have not heard anything being asked to do that but I am curious if anyone else has. >> You have? >> (multiple speakers). >> I have had people ask O&M instructors call and say please tell me where does it say I am not a travel trainer I would send them to IDEA [Indiscernible--low volume] (multiple speakers). >> I send them to Rosanne. >> (laughter). >> This is very important for some O&M instructors they are asked to provide travel training and really they are to provide services for students with visual impairments stated in IDEA and that help them. >> [Indiscernible--low volume] still a service to be available. >> Right. >> Comments. >> Liz put in a case that dealt with this issue or 504? >> 504. >> I think it is related to 504. We wanted to show you a slide of a new resource from AFP I will let you talk about it slide number six of the PowerPoint for those of you who have that in front of you the new book AFP published cannot the summer ECC essentials teaches expanded for curriculum to students with impairment we will use us as a reference for some of our upcoming webinars I will talk about a few in just a moment. I want to encourage all of you to look at this resource it is available in book form of the paperback you can also get it online and you can get chapters individually. I think this can really drive a lot of our conversation a lot of our trainings and interest in the areas of ECC. What I'm hoping is you will continue to think about this send us your questions and suggestions please continue to do that to the chat because we still are on for a little longerlonger. The future webinars to let you know O&M is such a hot issue clearly some of the questions today that will be the very next webinar -- slide number five -- it will be from 3:00 to 4:00 4:00 October the second. [indiscernible] will still be with us for a short while and [indiscernible] our new orientation and mobility statewide consultant (multiple speakers) the two of them will be doing that webinar. All of the following webinars are just an hour. These are intended as a way to generate questions and concerns from all of you I know we can't answer every question you have in an hour but we want to bring participants throughout the state together for these conversations and we want to know what your questions and issues are. Please continue to share with us and you do not have to wait until the webinar on a certain topic, November will be social skills and self-determination [indiscernible] and I will be facilitating that one. December will be on assistive technology with Sharon Nichols, Millie Smith who did the chapter in the ECC book that I just mentioned will be doing the January 8 webinar on efficiency February 5 will be on independent living skills March will be career add and that is [indiscernible] will lead the conversation in April on record leisure and the final ECC webinar this year will be the relationship between the ECC and the family and we will have a joint webinar with our two family specialists on the deaf blind team and [indiscernible] on the VI Team and participation from [indiscernible]. >> Where the question here. What we said of the webinar it only give us a few of the choices on the website. (multiple speakers) let me explain the reason for that and I really hope you will bear with us. We are in the process of going to a new registration system. It is being built and I finished. In the meantime we have a makeshift of the great registration system working I am trying to limit how many things we can register for at a time because as soon as the learning system opens up I want everything to go there. If you registered for an advance you have to go back and read register for a bunch of things but, each person will set up an account want to have an account set up you can register for everything you want for the entire year. >> You will love it (multiple speakers). >> If you lose your certificate you can go for seven years and reprint a certificate for yourself. It will be wonderful but not there yet. Please be patient with us we will be there soon I promise it will be better. >> Please send your questions, your thoughts, your suggestions all of those things. I don't believe our e-mail addresses were on the first page of the PowerPoint but Cheryl arable -- and I are both -- (multiple speakers) and Olga is that region 11 and Christie is that Region X I think all of their e-mail addresses pretty much -- (multiple speakers). >> We can put them in chat. I want to back up one slide we did not -- these are some things I think you can sign up for now within our current -- it works, registration system this is the first webinar in ECC but we are also doing a lot of study groups. I have been asked what is a study group. Do you want to talk about? >> Let me share our study groups tend to be a series of webinars that focus on a single topic or book or material for example the active learning one is focusing on a particular book by Millie Nielsen about active learning the S okay study group is focusing on how to use the sensory learning kit, the CBI study group is of course focusing on TVI. And we have more like the webinars we are doing on ECC which are a series kind of a mix focusing on ECC but they have guest presenters I come in and share and talk about different aspects of it and the hearing issues for [indiscernible] similar formats. There will be different presenters coming in, sharing information on a variety of focus areas related to hearing issues for students with deaf blindness. What we love people have said if I come to wonder have to come to all of them no of course not we can't make you (laughter) if we could I would but other thing if I miss the first one can I come to the rest of them, yes you can. Our hope is on most of these they will be recorded and posted to the web so you can view them after-the-fact if for some reason you can't get to the original broadcast. I know is teachers you are putting kids on the bus sometime or you have an ARD or a family member of your own (multiple speakers) we want to get these up on the web so you can watch them after-the-fact and you can get credit after-the-fact you just simply need to send me the delayed viewing form after you completed and I will send you the magic evaluation code you will be able to put into your online evaluation to get your certificate. I hope that helps most of you. Speaking of which we still have about 10 minutes but maybe I had better [Indiscernible--low volume] show the code or why you took were question. >> Of a couple more comments when we first started talking about ECC and thinking about it the study group was one of the things we actually thought about in relation to that. We have gone throughout this informative short webinars but for those of you interested in the study group though should be one of those -- we want to know what does it take specific areas further set up smaller study groups. This is an introductory piece to what is going on with the ECC number the ECC is not new we certainly all around the state there is a lot of concern we want to try to calm some of the fears and anxieties in hearing from across the state we can always go in different directions let us know how that might impact you. There are a couple of other slides with resources in your PowerPoint -- >> Let's go back to those there is some good ones on the TSBVI site and Region X. This is where you will find the guidance document we were using of the handout here. You have gone through this Adobe connect on the TSBVI website it is on the front homepage and the heading to find it is new additions to the site. It will be there for a while. The draft is going to be updated again in late October and, in November as we are catching some things anybody who catches please let me know. We are looking to get a legal opinion so we can call it a final guidance document. The second thing is a flyer called what is the expanded core curriculum. We have in Spanish as well. A really handy document to him to administrative parents who may be saying I have never heard of this before. You can send that to them always nice to have an easy quick one-page handout and you want to talk about these other ? >> A couple of the resources that are mentioned there some of the resources from AFP certainly mention the book, a of the website ASB .org has a variety of resources on the extended core curriculum also the Perkins website Perkins .org, family connect, [indiscernible] TSBVI website resources for the expanded core curriculum and it is also being updated and FYI for you it is quite large and has been rather cumbersome and edited and updated. Of the most recent version of guidelines and standards the two dozen 14 educating students with visual impairments in Texas guidelines and standards also on our website. I find to be an extremely helpful resource really explains the ECC especially administrators and parents were not familiar with it. I think it spells out extremely well. I encourage you -- I printed in carry with me me everywhere I go I encourage others to do that as well. And Region X's website (multiple speakers) talk about what you have any website? >> Sure absolutely. We basically sold -- stole their e-mail information and put it into we call it a checklist format the is and other neat resources in the same area. A summary sheet you can give paragraphs of her strengths and needs are another way to gather data and have it in a format to give to an ARD committee or parent also some suggestions if you want to address the ECC in your evaluations and LMA or O&M evaluations at that three-year reevaluation of anything that gives you samples of how that can look. And evaluation report, standalone report or anything. Just some samples by five or six pages a young kid or older kid, infant child with multiple visual impairments a child to qualify things like that. All of that -- follow the link and get there. >> At think this is a phenomenal resource and a good organizing device I know there are others out there I like that this one ties to the evaluation so you know what to do you think this is a need to. >> It helps link it to -- write the IEP once you have identified it is an area of need. I like the way it is linked to the kit so excellent resources. >> And the [indiscernible] skills also. >> Which is part of the evaluations kit also. >> (multiple speakers). >> Kind of lumped them together. Any other questions, issues, --? Deborah had a question world these resources listed on the PowerPoint? Kate did say she was going to do -- (multiple speakers). >> I can send the PowerPoint if you all are okay I will correct (multiple speakers) to all the folks registered and we can try and see about posting it -- not sure if we can posted on our website but I can send it out to folks. I may be able to take the resources part and put that on the web. We will figured out -- figure it out. >> We will show you the code for those who are just about to hit the road. We have a few more minutes in case other people have questions especially interested in people not phased by the new law or finding it helpful or making it work and folks I think somewhere earlier Marion said how are people doing this what are the great suggestions of where it is working pretty early in the school year to know many success stories I hope we are going to start collecting those. I am sure gatherings like Texas AER in Texas focus in the next year and other kinds of regional meetings people are talking about how are you doing this what are the practical ways to get through and I'm hoping each of the ECC webinars will focus on practical suggestions for folks saying I really am -- really am overwhelmed. >> [Indiscernible--low volume] >> Twinkle can you unmute your might? -- your microphone? >> Star six, twinkle. >> My light was off. What I was wondering if in the future one of the things here at region 1 we are trying to come up with since our staff (multiple speakers) our staff service several school districts and we are wrestling with how to provide input at a greedy committee if not physically present. Could it be possible and when these webinars that people went to I don't know if there is awakened we share forms and send it to maybe [indiscernible] part of the e-mail when they send out a notice for the next webinar so people (multiple speakers) what everybody is doing we are coming in with a form too that would help provide -- we had a discussion could our O&M folks could you truly look at the student document, look at the eye, medical, functional and documents there in order to make a determination without ever seen the student. Determined they don't need O&M or we know when in doubt evaluate the feel comfortable trying to come up with the document that with maybe help structure that when they do ask for input they are going to review the documents based on the information they are making a decision. See if that is okay or everyone try to get into the kids make determination whether O&M is needed or not at that greedy committee or evaluation. >> Those are good questions the next webinar about O&M I am sure will, and how are people solving the problems. I love the idea you sending documents here they can be shared because we don't need to reinvent the wheel we don't need to. >> Absolutely the part about not reinventing the wheel. Sending and sharing those we can be doing that may be the schedule a separate webinar for a study group or whatever just to address the issue of the forms being developed and sharedshared. Great suggestion, twinkle I appreciate that. >> It really can create ECC webpage that we can put everything there for easy accessaccess. >> Great idea. >> Great idea. >> At think we all have ECC folder I certainly do 12 or 20 of them. >> Idea of an ECC webpage that could be maintained here on our website definitely open to all of your ideas. That part of two other questions one on your totally forgot the other one. There was a question before (multiple speakers). >> How do we [Indiscernible--low volume] babysat transition public school at three years but parents decide not to [indiscernible] to later had his be it continue to provide services. >> Olga answer that in the chat you want to talk about that? (multiple speakers). >> I don't know why my camera is down -- >> So is mine. >> How can this to provide services. And student accounting help with states can to provide services under dual enrollment. You the right to enroll in both public school and private school which would be the home at the end of ECC services at the end of the school year so you can still provide services which would be VI services. However this is e-mail me and I can send you a message with the exact website to go to. You can find it and make a framework under dual enrollment and fine answer under [indiscernible]. >> Legal framework under 0 to 5 portion at the very bottom of the page dual enrollment. And you have to reference dual enrollment to see what the qualifiers are for homeschooled and for that age they are pretty minimal the only issue I have a come up with his parents sometimes flat do not want their child enrolled in school. Other options beyond -- I'm hoping as a PA teacher is work closely with the family for two years I convince them until enrollment is the way to continue to get services or not but we ran into a few times parents refused dual enrollment and you are left with nothing. Unless someone else has other suggestions? >> It appears quite a few people that have suggestions. See the booklet on options and programs and things to share we appreciate the input and questions and suggestions. Future webinars will include information on resources and strategies.You have some and particular areas of ECC that you love and use we would love to know what those are to include them Debra Sewell and I have been compiling a document and we will be making it available and portions we will use with each part of the webinar and each area of the ECC. I think we are out of time. >> I would like to thank help -- Tran everyone for helping but this webinar we really appreciate it if it. >> Really appreciate everyone's input (multiple speakers). >> Especially everyone joining and it was a great group. We will see you next month. >> Thank you. >> Thanks, everybody. >> (multiple speakers)[Event concluded]