TRANSCRIPT - Brainstorming Session About How to Get Students to Use Their Devices

>>Donna: Good afternoon, everyone. Come on and settle in, grab your T and let's get ready to talk. I just realized I was doing all that talking and I was muted. Thank you, Mary. I'm going rogue. Just talking to myself. Same to be the theme of the day. Okay. As I was saying, welcome to TSBBI Outreach Tech T time.

>>Kathi: Huh.

>>Donna: Now I'll just repeat my whole spiel here. The goal of RT time is to build a community of practice for technology that will allow us to support each other when we are teaching technology. In the spirit of that goal. T time is an interactive session where registrants are encouraged to converse through and the chat. In the Q&A and connect with each other. We. Have a kind of small group today. So if. There any of you that have the burning need to ask some great questions or some questions. Period. We want you to interact. Just let us know in the chat and we will move you up. To a panelist mode if you want to chat with us and don't want to type things out. So just let us know in the chat. Otherwise, if you have a question and just wanna type it out, put it in the Q&A, general comments into the chat, please, so we can keep everything nice and neat. For following along. Our topic today is how to get our students involved in using their devices with Ms. Castatha. Yeah, I'm going road and not speaking today with Miss Kathy. Garza. And we're just gonna have a fun old time. So I'm gonna stop my share and Kathy. It is over to you.

>>Kathi: Awesome. Thanks, Donna. Yeah, so I, you know, when, we talked about April and low vision awareness and kind of thinking about what. You know, what topics we wanna cover. I felt like I am really interested in, You know, in the topic of low vision, of course I have low vision myself. I'm a device user. I've had, you know, a quote, air quote, it's complicated relationship with my devices over the years. Both optical devices and mobility devices and, you know, computer software accessibility tools. And so it's 1 of the questions that I feel like Donna we get the most often from people. Is I have this kid in middle school and they refuse to use their devices. What do I do or this kid doesn't want to look different? What are, how am I supposed to, you know, get them to use these tools? And so I really, you know, spoiler alert and I'm very sorry to be such a disappointment to you all. But I don't have all the answers. I don't know what all the answers are. I have some ideas about things that I think help. Along the way, but I genuinely really was curious about. You know, having a discussion with other TBIs in the field who have experience with students with low vision and kind of what has worked for you. So you know I'm happy to share my experience I've been at TSBBI for about 15 years and I've worked with kids in all different populations. And then I'm also very active in the Albanism community. And so I've had the opportunity to follow many kids, through their parents and so I've had the opportunity to follow many kids, through their parents and, and follow their journeys as well as my own. But I'm hoping that people will throw up some questions, throw some conversation in the chat or unmute yourself and speak to some conversation in the chat or unmute yourself and speak if that, if we're able to make that happen for everybody. I'm really curious about what you guys think and experience. So as we're kind of getting some questions and comments. About kids, I'll just you know for me personally I I grew up basically using just very limited technology optical devices and things and so and I and I remember that it was difficult at times for me to do that and so at some point it just kind of there just kind of came a point where I had to come to grips with the fact that if I wanted to do the things that I wanted to do and work towards my goals. I was gonna just have to suffer through using these things and looking different. And it comes up, you know, it still comes up. It's like, I think it's a lifelong thing. And so, you know, we're, I'm curious if you guys have any strategies that you want to share from right off, right off the bat here. Or questions. I guess I'm kind of just waiting. For some questions. I think, you know, also, I mean, I think some of the things that I typically tell teachers just while other things are coming in. Some of the things that I typically say are that I think it's really, really in conversations that I've had with other people that I've worked with as well that it's really, really important to build a relationship with students. Who have low vision and, and so that there's, you know, it's like There's, I think building a relationship with our kids, we wouldn't think twice about that as a classroom teacher, but I know that sometimes it's difficult for, as we're serving kids with low vision because the service delivery time can vary so much. And so I think that building a relationship is something that is worth the investment of time at the beginning. Because I think it allows you to create buy in with your students and to for them to be able to see you as somebody who is there not trying to force them to use. Something that maybe they're already struggling with emotionally. And maybe technically if it's a device that they're, that they're, you know, not, That is not super familiar to them, but also as somebody who's there to help them kind of identify and solve their problems. So I think it's, helpful when you can create buy in with your students by building a relationship and speaking, you know, with them candidly about this is your role in this is what you're here to how you're here to support them. And you know, what are some things that, they are finding are difficult for them and maybe going from that perspective, because I think it creates buy in from the students when they have an opportunity to share, you know, this is an area that I'm really struggling with and and I'm wondering what tools might be out there. You know, to help to help me with this particular problem as opposed to starting from, well, here's a list of low vision tools. Let's look at all these tools. Let me teach you how to use them and not really maybe identify situations where it's best to kind of, you know, choose that tool. I know Cindy Bakov talks a lot about the right tool for the task. And so I think it's also the right time for the tool, you know, it's like, not just taking a task and saying, well, which tool am I going to use, but taking a look at the schedule and deciding which times of days do I need to use these tools or might I need a tool, which time of day is going to be really difficult for me.

>>Donna: Cathy, Michelle has been given the, you've been permission to talk. So that she can share with us some strategies that she's used.

>>Kathi: Awesome. Great.

>>Michelle: Hi, can you hear me? Yeah, thank you for unmuting me. I am driving. So in truth be told, I can't take full credit on this.

>>Kathi: Yes.

>>Michelle: Oh, also I am, I am a teacher for the blind and visually impaired. I'm in Northern Virginia at Fairfax County Public Schools. Cindy Bach over is a dear friend of mine, so I have to give her some of this credit because I did consult with her. At the beginning of the school year on this particular tool that I am using with 3. So 3 of my 3 low vision students, 2 of them have albinism. The other student has nystagmus, they all use. Different low vision devices, for example, the one fifth grader with nystagmus he uses. I don't magnifier or his glasses or he'll use a monocular. So he has his own personal iPad and I've created a shared document with him where he has to know every day. Every day of the week what tools he's used and then we talk about it. And that's really, really helped for him to be part of the. You know, the data collection that was like a huge wind, getting him to use his tools, you know, making him more aware like, oh, I use. For example, my mostly he uses his monocular, to access the smartboard. When he uses his, dome magnifier or reading glasses, it's more for if he's reading a novel. The other 2 students have the same data sheet that they share with me. Actually one has an electronic one, the other one has his data, she taped to his, classroom where he has a small group math instruction. And every day he goes over and he marks that chart. You know, I've used my black marker. I've used my video magnifier, you know, in math and we're really just collecting data on that particular student and just. A math class. Because that's where we saw he needed those low vision tools the most. Although he needs them throughout the day. But really in math class, he also use, uses a shared screen with his teacher. And again, that's just really helped to push these kids into using their low vision devices. So.

>>Donna: Michelle, that is awesome. Back in the day, old hat that I am, we used to call those advocacy.

>>Michelle: Yeah.

>>Donna: And so I think getting them, beginning the ketos involved in, you know, this is what I use and this is how I use it and can. Building on explaining why and why I use it. Let's see, Tyler in in our chat here says present the device and explain situations and our role-playing fun. Role playing fund usage before applying to school-based usage. Telescope on a pirate ship was one used on the playground equipment today. Oh, that sounds fun. Let's go. Let's go. Treasure hunting.

>>Kathi: Yeah.

>>Donna: He'll use a monocular in class and in adulthood a possible biopic device for driving. But it's great that we're playing with our devices first. That's awesome. And Mary says, teaming with the comms on a lesson or community outing, students, especially middle schoolers, may be more open to using devices off campus. That's a great idea, Mary. If anyone would prefer to speak, let's. Let you all know in that you can, We'll be giving you permission to unmute and mute your mic. So if you want to share something that is too long to type. Just drop it in the chat and. We will do the shuffle. Thank you, Nathan. Back to Kathy.

>>Kathi: Yeah, I love those ideas. I love those ideas and I think that that the teaming I agree with Mary I think that the teaming is super important so that both people know kind of what the other, well, and I shouldn't say just both people because there could be many, you know, kind of what the other, well, and I shouldn't say just both people because there could be many, you know, team members, but specifically speaking about people because there could be many, you know, team members, but specifically speaking about the VI and. I think it's important so that, each one knows what you know, what the student is working on with the other, so that they can align even aligning their, you know, like a united front, you know, even saying like, okay, well, right now I'm teaching monocular and these are the points in your school day that it might be helpful besides you know these times out in the community and kind of just looking at that device as a whole part of your day instead of just an isolated thing, you know, looking at those things across. But I also think the teaming can be really important and going back to what I was saying before about finding out times when the student, you know, is having a hard time and starting from there, but also what are the things they want to do? I mean, I've heard many, I know that, I feel like Mary can probably speak to this, but I know that there's, You know, I know that there's a lot of talk in the in O and M world where we talk about what are some things that kids want to do, what do they want to explore, what do they want to see, and let's try to plan lessons around that because if it's a really motivating task. You know, then I think kids are more, inclined to be open minded about trying those devices. In those settings. Not that, you know, not that TBIs are not doing motivating tests, but I think sometimes we're a little more focused on providing access and some of that stuff. But you know, when we're working on ECC, we have the opportunity to, to incorporate assistive technology and, and low vision devices in ways that the kids really, really want to. I know that

>>Donna: And we have to find that hook, right Cathy? We have to find that her.

>>Kathi: Yeah, yeah, what are they interested in? I mean, I've worked with kids. You know, a lot of kids that I've worked with are have been really, really interested in cooking. And so that's been a really good opportunity for us to pull out those devices because it's very motivating for them to be looking at ingredients and looking at in the grocery store and how it is this package enough of what I need for this recipe, you know. And how much does it cost? Does it fit in my budget, etc, things like that? You know, and I know that there was a low vision on the road. Recently where they hung up a bunch of, Hokemon cards around the room and had people looking for those with devices, which I find extremely awesome because my own kid who is not visually impaired is super into that as well so I could imagine that those kids were eager to kind of you know, look for those things and be able to make those connections with their typically sighted peers as well. Okay, any questions come in Donna?

>>Donna: Not as of yet. I was trying to twist Mary's arm to come on. Not on the panel.

>>Kathi: No, you know, the other thing that I was recently hearing, you know, we went to, we went to a conference recently. I was at the VR conference and. And I specify just because I don't know who's out of state, but. There was a student who received an award or there was a student who was part. There was a student who was part of the the keynote session. Who had been a previous award winner and she was talking about how an elementary school it was really difficult for her to want to use. Use Braille and use other devices. At the time she was, she was low vision, because she didn't wanna look different from her peers. And as she was speaking about The conversation she had with her TBI, it kind of made me think the, and then she kind of spoke about the outcome and, And it kind of made me think like. You know, one of the things that is helpful to talk about with our students is how yes, these, you know, these acknowledging that these devices might make you look and feel different. Now, and there may be kids with questions, but what the whole purpose of showing these devices are so that you can continue to progress and do the same things as your peers are doing as they get older. Because as you get older and you get more independence, those gaps. Between what your peers are doing and what you're doing might get bigger unless you you have tools that are going to support you. And so I think that You know, another strategy besides, you know, what we've mentioned before about relationships and buy in and. And things like that is that the idea of just having open, honest and candid conversations with your students, you know, and, and allowing them to feel heard and acknowledged and trying to support them as they figure out. You know, what things do I wanna do in the future and what is that gonna look like and, I have experienced a lot of times in within the Albanism community specifically that you know I have these same conversations with parents and then I come I see you know I mean I encounter them and then it's like as the kids get up into high school they've kind of figured out oh wow my friends are doing this and high school they've kind of figured out oh wow my friends are doing this and I really want to do this too and the only way I'm going to be able to do that is to use this tool. And so they're a little more willing to kind of, to kind of, accept that. And so my, typical advice to a parent is in it's a little different I guess than giving advice to professionals but my typical go-to advice is You know, just you kind of just have to move with them. It's just an uncomfortable spot and you kind of just have to let them figure it out and learn that, you know, If they want to accomplish their goals, they're going to at some point come across something that they are super motivated to do that's going to require the use of this tool and the best you can do I think I mean as a professional all we can do in my you know, very humble opinion, is to show them the tools that are available and help them determine when these tools can be useful for them. And make sure that they're very, you know, knowledgeable about how to use the tools efficiently. And then allow them to decide kind of what works for them because at some point I think they're I hate to say learn the hard way, but I think they're going to figure out, wow, this is this is a time when I really, really do need to rely on this. And this is a time when I can get by. Without and I think giving them the opportunity to you know, have that autonomy and that empowerment, is really helpful in their own, you know, self-discovery as well. I don't know, does that make any sense, Donna? I feel like

>>Donna: Absolutely does. No, it absolutely does. I think giving our kids the experience in a safe place. And a place where they feel supported. And then exploring and having adventures with their devices and really embracing their devices and seeing the efficiency like I love doing the advocacy journals and and letting them know that oh. Look, you've gotten all your work done this week and let's see how many times you use your devices and do you think it's helping you or making you more efficient and you could have those kind of open honest conversations with them of Does it make my life a little easier? By using my devices and really when we get that buy in from them by showing them. Instead of the you have to use this device, you know, that Sharon show. So yeah, absolutely agree. Let's. Oh yeah, we do. We definitely have our stubborn ones.

>>Kathi: Yeah, because sometimes that wall just goes right up, you know, it's like. You know that goes right up and now I'm just not hearing you.

>>Donna: We have our stubborn ones that, nope, you tell me I had to. Nope, not gonna happen. - nope, nope, no, don't know anybody like that at all.

>>Kathi: Yeah. I don't know anybody like that. Especially not the person in the mirror, not that person.

>>Donna: Yeah. Alright.

>>Kathi: So I'm curious if anybody else has anything to share about things that they've, done or tried with their students that they feel like have been helpful or things that they're hoping that they're going to be helpful. I'll give just a minute for people to put in the chat and again you can just type in the chat or you can we can unmute you.

>>Donna: Well, I know that folks have probably heard me talk about, hey, can I try that about a million times? But it is one of my favorites. Because it is scenario based. And we could kind of run if you were stuck on what a scenario is to kind of get your Kiddo thinking and problem solving. So that is one of my absolute favorites. Does anyone else have any favorite tool practice game?

>>Kathi: Yes, I like that. Hey, can I try that? I have also heard people talk about, and actually students too, talking about the success that they've had when they've made some sort of, and I know that this is not a new idea, but, when they have made some sort of presentation for their class. Whether it's about their eye condition, you know, and their devices or even just about their devices. And it seems like some of the things that I have heard from other students. Is that you know they were of course they were nervous to get up and do it or maybe they were resistant to it but when they got up and did it It allowed them to, you know, it allowed them to answer those questions in one setting. And in a setting where they felt they were kind of protected because you're doing it in front of the whole class. So it's easier to, believe that the kids are genuinely asking and not doing it as like a way to poke fun because I hear that a lot from kids too. Well, everybody's so mean to me and I say, well, what are they doing to you? Well, they're asking me about my devices. And I'm like, what are they asking you mean? Are they? Well, they just want to know what it does. Okay, well this is not the same as bullying, you know, yes it feels uncomfortable but it's not the same as, you know, as you being, you know, a target. And so I think sometimes these presentations for kids and can really help them. As well because it helps influence their peers, you know, their peers and the behavior of their peers, which is oftentimes the bigger issue.

>>Donna: Oh.

>>Kathi: You know, it's not so much the device as it is. How, how does this look to my peers, you know?

>>Donna: Yeah, absolutely. How to take away that. That fear that they're going to get picked on or that it's that they're different and and all of that. So Susan says, scavenger hunts and treasure hunts. Oh my goodness. I adore both.

>>Kathi: Yes, for sure.

>>Donna: And if you've ever had, I honestly have never seen my, kiddos that use devices use them so quickly. Then when we had 2 ECC, events, one was our technology, Olympics. And we ran ours a little bit different in that our kids had to pick an event and then they had to use their devices to win a a metal. So they were competing against themselves in the use of their devices. And we were Trixie. Part of our Olympics was that we had the what was it called we called it the escape room but it was the boxes that you had to solve the clues to get to the center box where the the boxes that you had to solve the clues to get to the center box where the prize was. They're used in a lot of classrooms. They were really popular around 2020. And 2019 2020 but the kids had to use their devices to solve the clues to get the devices to solve the clues to get the boxes open. And they had to work together as a team with other folks that were using devices. So if you could somehow get a small group together even. To do a game or something like that where they where it was really device dependent. That was something that was successful for us. And Susan oh I love that one joke of the day in small print Yes, cause we love dad jokes around here.

>>Kathi: Yeah, for sure. For sure.

>>Donna: So having jokes of the day and small prints, my favorite Jaws instructional. Tool, my typing tool does very bad bad jokes at the end of each lesson. So some of our kids will do almost anything for a joke. So yeah, that's a great idea.

>>Kathi: Oh, somebody's, yeah, some of the technology event choices. Is this for like the low vision Olympics or what you were speaking about?

>>Donna: Yeah. Oh, the technology Olympics. I.

>>Kathi: Technology, because I think it should be low vision only Olympics, but that's just me. I'm just saying I'm a little biased.

>>Donna: It, it, but your low bias, that's okay. We had to have full scope of tech, you know, I like all tech, we even had gaming tech, which was cool and robots and all kinds of crazy stuff.

>>Kathi: Of course.

>>Donna: That event was held through our ESC when I was there. A long time ago. Or it feels like a long time ago now. So, some of your ESCs are still having technology Olympics. They look a little different. If you're interested in putting together a technology event or something like that. Drop me an email and I'll share the information with you, Laurie. I don't know where you're housed out of to know. Kind of how to help you on that one. But if you drop me an email and I'll put my email in chat. Then we can talk about, you know, setting some ECC event like that up and what it involves. Oh, Canada, yay! Cool. Yeah, so a little example of what our event was is the kiddos would pick a range of of competitions whether that is we had a telescope event or a monocular event. We ended up changing that to distance magnification so the kid could use whatever distance magnification that they were using. We had near magnification events. The kiddos could use whatever magnification they, were, they were using at the time to complete the tasks within the within the event. We had computer. So word. Powerpoint, Excel. Specific events where the kids had to use their tech to construct. Which included making a web search and so you can see we were we were expanding all of those items for technology that we could. So yeah, it was a huge event. I think we usually had about a hundred 80, folks at that one. Including parents etc. but, definitely drop me an email. Kathy, the other Kathy. Says bingo with device use independent use etc. selections and choice boards Kathy, do you want to expand on that with us? Would you like to be unmuted for that or just? Let us know. I love bingo. We had a lot of bingo going on at TAER if you were there. So. Bingo is is fun. Scrabble. With our devices. Board games, book games, yeah.

>>Kathi: Yeah, I've seen. Jeopardy.

>>Donna: Jeopardy!

>>Kathi: Okay.

>>Donna: A teacher allows. Class loot to reward students for working with their devices.

>>Kathi: Yeah, reward system is always good.

>>Donna: Reward system is always good.

>>Kathi: I used one time I did, sorry to cut you off, Donna, but I was thinking about this bingo thing and one time what we did in a short term programs class.

>>Donna: Oh no!

>>Kathi: Is because the kids were elementary age and they were super into Madlibs. And so I hand. I asked, our people in the library to help me make a large sized. Madlib. And then I had the kids use their devices to, look at the, what I gave them a list of, of course, the adjective now and adjective name, whatever. And so they wrote it down and then. You know, I filled it in on in the Madlib and then they had to use their devices to read it and it was hilarious because they kept laughing so hard at what was there that they would lose their place on the mad lib so then they had to you know track and scan to find it again and and so that was really really fun and you know we did that we I used index cards on it to put the words with colored markers so that I could pull the words, with colored markers so that I could pull them off and then we could do it again with the words, with colored markers so that I could pull them off and then we could do it again with different words, you know, that I could pull them off and then we could do it again with different words, you know, so that they'd be reusable, but it was really, really fun for the kids to, to do that. And of course you could get us, if you were, we were that day we were focusing on monoculars. As part of that low vision focus class, but. You could do that with a regular Madlibs book and and either CCTV or a magnifier and and have the kids you know use that for reading and it's reading something fun and motivating and kind of like the joke of the day, you know, so. That was a super fun activity that we did.

>>Donna: Yeah, it's not an easy solution to find that hook for every kid. Every kid is gonna be different.

>>Kathi: Right, for sure. And I think that's goes back to that, you know, focusing. I mean, I feel like I'm not saying that We don't inherently build relationships with our students, but I think really putting you know, really putting a focus on that relationship and what is it like and how, how does it, you know, reflecting on how, how is this relationship? What is the quality of this relationship? I mean, of course we have that, you know, we hope that we're having that general teacher student respect and things like that, but really taking the time to get to know them and what they're interested in and what motivates. They're feeling about everything.

>>Donna: And I hate to come back to data again, but if we're taking that usage data, which is that Michelle was talking about, we may be able to identify there's a classroom or a teacher that the kiddos are responding more to and that they're using their devices more in that environment than another. And be able to dig into why, you know, what can we do across the board? That teacher or that's happening in that environment that would support. Usage across locations. So, data data data. I like data.

>>Kathi: Yeah.

>>Donna: Oh, the question just went out of my head there. I had a question for you. So I love that we've been talking about. Using all of their devices outside of the classroom to provide that hook before things are really difficult. Because if we're already stressed in class. And we're already stressed about getting things done and doing the test and and you know now we've got this device that I'm not a hundred percent sure of. That using that device outside of class in that fun environment going on those scavenger hunts going shopping or an O and M lesson. Identifying cars. That was one thing that the the kiddos were doing. Last time we were out and about where they were looking at cars in the parking lot and trying to race each other to see who could identify it and more cars. So finding that that interest outside of class that we can reinforce their skills.

>>Kathi: Yeah, and that makes me think too Donna of I don't ask me how the rabbit trail formed, but that makes me think too of like, you know, when we think about kids learning to read and so there's that time where it's like you're learning to read so that you can read to learn and if anybody's ever had experience teaching a kid how to read or with their own kid learning to read or with their own kid learning to read. A kid how to read or with their own kid learning to read. And those first couple of years are we can be read or with their own kid learning to read. Man, those first couple of years are re can be really challenging. You know, it's. I worried a lot about the in writing too, I think, you know, the mechanics of writing and I worried a lot about this for my son who again is not visually impaired, but you know it was just a struggle for him and he was so unmotivated to do it because it was a struggle. And so it makes me kind of generalize that to any kind of tool or device or even strategy that we're asking our kids to. To learn because I think that sometimes, we feel like they You know, they've had enough support, they've had enough instruction or whatever, but maybe they really haven't. And, and I think that as human beings we're kind of inclined to go with the path of least resistance, right? So, you know, if you're, You know, if you're going somewhere, you know, you'd rather rely on the GPS now than printing out a map, you know, because that's familiar and it's a it's a lot harder. And so I think for our kids it's like if it's harder to be efficient with a device because they have not had enough practice with it. They're like, you know, they're gonna be more inclined to not to not look to that, you know, and, And again, I mean, I, you know, I used to think that it was easier to sit 2 inches from my computer screen. Before I knew about zoom text and then and I was very resistant to getting zoom text and I was in my twenties already so I was way beyond like you know what is what should be considered like normal stubbornness. But it was like, you know, it wasn't until I became really efficient with it that I was able to kind of like, oh, wow, how, and then, and then you get to a place where you're like, how did I do this? My, you know, my whole life without this tool. You know, and as hard as it is for me to admit it. I think the same thing about my cane, you know, like I, I was would have been, I was very resistant to using that tool and I'm not even perfect at it now. There are times that I really probably should have it and be using it and I'm not but I think that you know, now that I have become a little bit more efficient with it and and I'm realizing that I am actually relying on it more than just for identification. And so I think the same can be said for our students that it's important that progress monitoring is really important to make sure that they really do have the skills. You know, to use. I mean, I sometimes feel like I underestimate the amount of skills that a kid needs to be able to efficiently use a CCTV. You know, and you think like, oh, this is making everything bigger. They can see it. Now it's better. And here's your CCTV and you put this under it and now you know how to use it, you know, but. You know, I think it's, really helping to make sure that they, that they have the right posture and that they have the, you know, that they know that writing under that is going to be difficult. And here are some ways and techniques that you can make this easier for you. And here are some, you know, left to right scanning to help you maintain your position on the page and all of those things I think that sometimes we take for granted that our kids are gonna figure that stuff out.

>>Donna: Yeah, I absolutely love that. Yeah.

>>Kathi: And I think they are less There are more inclines too. I mean, I'm 1 of those people.

>>Donna: Okay.

>>Kathi: I am more inclined to read at the end of my nose. Then to go dig a magnifier out of a drawer or even turn on my magnification app on my phone, you know, cause it's just this is the go to and it's here and it's works and. I don't have to work harder, you know?

>>Donna: Yeah, I love that. I had completely forgotten about that quote, you know, learn to read the read to learn.

>>Kathi: Huh.

>>Donna: And I think that's so parallels. The use of our devices. You know, we can't. Use it to learn if we haven't learned to use it. You know, it's that same kind of parallel.

>>Kathi: Right. Yes.

>>Donna: And Kathy J says, yes, reading writing is fundamental and Susan says learning keyboard almost always get slower before. It becomes more efficient and yes. And I think I think definitely having our checklists and I am so proud of a lot of our manufacturers and a lot of our vendors now who are producing checklists to go with their devices.

>>Kathi: Yeah, that's the truth.

>>Donna: So that we can go in and. And tip for the day if you have a device. Check on the website where you download the manuals a lot of times under downloads they will have support checklists on what that item does. And how to do each item so that then you are able to track what your kiddo can do and have all of those intermediate steps lined out for you. And yep, Michelle, good one. You can also have AI create checklists. I would be very careful with those meat that loves AI, adore, do you use it all the time?

>>Kathi: Huh

>>Donna: Agree, make sure you're checking your checklists that are generated by AI because they do occasionally hallucinate and make up things. So make sure you double check those. But that is a great idea to use. To get yourself a start. Helps with formatting too. Alright, so we have checklists and we have Looking for features versus our tools. I know, Kathy, you touched on that a little bit when you started. Talking about having a bunch of tools in your toolbox, but not really knowing how to use them or how to match them or when we give a kid a wide range of tools. But not necessarily attending to the feature that they need most. Instead of the tool. I don't know if you want to expand on that or if I'm just throwing that out there at you. How is features important for you even? When you're picking your device.

>>Kathi: Well, yeah, I mean, I, I think that that can apply to anything, you know, I know that CCTVs and video magnifiers and, and magnification apps have a variety of features, that could be helpful to our kids and, You know, Zoom text, like I'm a Zoom text user, so I'm not necessarily pushing Zoom text because I know that there's a lot of built in accessibility across different, operating systems and things like that. But I, you know, I, there are so several features on there that are, have been really paramount for me like the cursor enhancement. The pointer being able to make the pointer a little bit bigger. And I think that, our kids also need to know about these and, and, you know, and I think sometimes it's like, oh, well, you know, maybe they're just gonna play with them or whatever, but I've had the experience. Where I'll have kids kind of set features according to their favorite colors or whatever. And then the next day, they're like, oh, Miss Kathy, can you teach me how to put this back? It's not working for me, you know, and so it's kind of a really nice opportunity for them. To have autonomy and then to advocate for their needs, you know, and recognize what their needs are. You know, so I think about that a lot in terms of in terms of features of devices and you know the idea that bigger may not always be bigger, you know, when we're thinking about enlarging, photocopies, you know, when we're thinking about enlarging, photocopies and things because it also enl and then, you know. with. In terms of. Oh my gosh, I just lost it. I was trying to think I was thinking about. The CCTV and you know, making that bigger for kids and then it kind of that can impact your efficiency because of how much you can see at one time. And so really looking at those features finding out what is the right. You know, not necessarily what is the minimum this kid can get away with because then your deal you can deal with maybe eye fatigue, and reduce stamina, but what is, what's the sweet spot for this kiddo? And, you know, I'm not quite, you know, I don't prescribe binoculars, but I have experienced a lot of different powers of binoculars and yeah, you know, the 8 X and the 10 X I'm gonna see really close up, but I'm also going to be missing so much of what's going on around me because of the reduction. In the field. And so thinking about that, I think people typically refer to that as overprescribing, you know, and the same with magnifiers. You know, if you give a kid an 8 X handheld or a 10 X handheld or whatever that's that piece that they have to view is so small and if they have any kind of photophobia or glare sensitivity, a lot of times that there's gonna be you're gonna be dealing with that too and so really looking at you know again every kid is so different even if they have the same condition same acuity But really kind of looking at the devices and thinking about what are the specifics in this device and what is appropriate for this. What are the features and what is appropriate for this student?

>>Donna: And having them tell you. Really tell you. What's working better? Yeah.

>>Kathi: Yeah, what's working better in a variety of different environments, you know, because I think about For example, I think about me and my Zoom text, you know, what I'm dox to a monitor, I'm at one magnification and when I'm just on my laptop, I have to bump up that magnification quite a bit. You know, because of the smaller screen and And so kind of thinking about that and the same with certain websites, you know, there are certain websites that I have to zoom in on my phone and so another ones that I don't. And not just pinch to Zoom, but actually use the Zoom feature, you know, on my phone or, or the same with Zoom Tax. There are certain websites that I have to, you know, bump up even if I'm docked to a monitor. Because everything is so different. And so, you know, thinking about those features and and what's going to be, you know, what's going to put the kiddo in the best, you know, in the best place to.

>>Donna: Okay. It looks like Michelle has her hand raised.

>>Kathi: To be. Be successful. Oh good, Michelle. Let's hear it.

>>Donna: You can unmute yourself. You have the pala. Yeah.

>>Michelle: Sorry, there I am. It's me again. I just wanted to make a comment or an observation that I made this year with a another fifth grader that I'm using. I would say when he was in second or third grade he was given a video magnifier. And this year I gave him an iPad and he has moved, smoothly away from the video magnifier and just accessing everything electronically, even math, you know, he has an Apple pencil. So he's generating, you know, his answers on. And the iPad and then sharing with his teacher, you know, learning how to email. So it's it's been a huge game changer for this particular kid.

>>Donna: I love that Michelle. I have to say my iPad is my friend. And for me, when I can't see the small mathematics, I can zoom in quite big. So that I can see all of those. Exponents and subscripts and things like that. That are in in mathematics so Totally love that you're kito is using the Apple Pencil in those tools to interact with their kidna with their work. Kathy says that she is talking to students about not knowing what they are missing leads to missed learning opportunities.

>>Kathi: Yes.

>>Donna: And I would, I would further that a little bit more saying opportunities period because if we don't know what's going on on the posters on the wall in the in the hallways. Or the bulletin boards where the fun clubs are being posted. If we're not checking those things out, we're missing some opportunities there.

>>Kathi: Yeah, or the same, you know, the same anywhere on the playground or during free time or You know, at a family, a community event, you know. You don't know that there, you know, you don't know that they're giving away free still calls, you know, so you miss out. I mean, you know, and so I. Yeah.

>>Donna: You missed the free snow cones. That's the bad thing. You're missing the free snow cones and the free donuts and the bad things that we shouldn't be having, but we're going to have anyway because they're yummy.

>>Kathi: Yeah.

>>Donna: Okay. Sorry, rabbit trail there for yummy things. So thank you, Cathy and Michelle. Let's see, we have about 11 min left. So those burning questions. You have this much time left to get those questions into the chat. And I'm right.

>>Kathi: Yeah, I'm curious if anybody. Has any other questions or strategies to share?

>>Donna: We'll give you a minute or so to type. I know it takes a little bit longer or raise your hand. Somehow in the chat or let us know and we can unmute you.

>>Kathi: I'm also shamelessly stalking the presenters who are the participants to see who I can, you know, like call on. Yeah. I'm like, who can I finger point for those shoulder tap for this to come in here and give us some other, you know, some other piece of advice here.

>>Donna: I see a couple of people that could give us some good advice including one that was already mentioned.

>>Kathi: Oh yes, I know, I know. There are people.

>>Donna: There are people start stocking my attendee room. Come on in!

>>Kathi: Yeah, well, you know, and also I think. Thinking about the. Thinking about the you know kind of the idea of doing your homework with the kiddo and figuring out what they what they're motivated in and and then going back to what Mary was saying about collaboration. I also think that we underestimate sometimes the importance of the family. And the siblings. You know, and what are some things we want to do? Is in thinking about that brave space, where, where the kiddos feel comfortable using, using a device, you know, I think sometimes, maybe the classroom is not always the bravest space. Always feel the safest or the bravest to do that in that environment but hopefully at home with their families they do and so what are some things that the family likes to do the family wants to do that might be really motivating for the student. You know, to be able to, to practice those skills and to reinforce those skills and, and, and I don't want to take away from anybody's connection with their students, but, you know, In many many cases I know not all cases but in many cases who better to advocate for how cool and helpful a device is then your parents sometimes. I mean, depending on how old you are, I'm thinking more about young kids. A lot of times I feel like the most important people in my kids life are his classroom teacher and me. And there have been times that he has totally picked his classroom teacher over me like, no, she knows more than you do. And she said this and I'm like, well, okay, but wait a minute, you know, I'm your mom. So, you know, but just a lot of times I think you can really kind of support the families can really be a support as well. So either working with them to kind of have that continuity of skill development at home or working with them to figure out what are some activities that we might be able to do at school that would create some, you know, buy in for this. You know, and to be able to practice this or collect data on this.

>>Donna: Yeah, I love getting families involved, especially sibling. Sometimes that connection. Can be your absolute in and even if it's for something like a video game, you know, doing some, some work on getting accessibility on video games so that the siblings can play together. And use that bonding and and see how cool it is. You know, let's say Mary says.

>>Kathi: Yeah, Mary, Mary and Susan are right up my, are speaking my language. Yes, the cooking activities. We talked a little bit about that before where, you know, that's a really good a lot of kids really, really want to do that or they're really. Notated to eat what they make, you know, I find kids are either really motivated to make a treat and eat it or they're really motivated to be more independent in the kitchen and use things like swords and fire to accomplish something. And so, I think that's a great opportunity, but I love this one from Susan because I am. This is totally me. You know, the idea that a kiddo is, is not able to see what is going on at a, at a sporting event that their sibling is doing. And so it's not nearly as much fun, but then, you know, had a whole new outlook kind of being able to use the telescope to spot them on the field. And I'll just say from a lot of experience watching football games through a telescope, both in person and on TV. That talk about some really good tracking and scanning skills that we're working on with that monocular because you know it's hard to find the the right balance. I'm a huge football fan and we were season ticket holders to Texas State for many years and I had a different I used a different I wore 2 different power telescopes with me, so that I could use one for, you know, the game itself and one for just watching the marching band. So, you know, so it was, I mean, super motivating, the same with concerts or other events, you know, I. Remember as a kiddo you know, sitting and being bored at, certain events, school assemblies and things, you know, until I really discovered Well, I can see a lot more and be more entertained if I, you know, if I have access to this tool. So I think that's a great. Piece of advice and Cindy is talking about browsing device websites and product catalogs might be motivating for students to see the range of tools. And and so they could plan a visit to a low vision site. Well that would be great for a variety of skills. Maybe Cindy is gonna have to write that up for me to submit to past illiteracy. Cause it's, you know, computer literacy, right?

>>Donna: That would be a good one.

>>Kathi: I mean.

>>Donna: Oh yeah, definitely other spectators wanting to borrow your device. For a shout out to our Canadian folks.

>>Kathi: Yeah.

>>Donna: I like hockey. And I used to broadcast hockey. And so we would have our kiddos in the, and actually I can't say kiddos, they were, they were my peers at that point. In fact, one of them was broadcasting with me. We had a great narrator. So the game was going on fast and furious and we would wear our headphones. And get the narrator telling us what was happening. So. Whether we had low vision or. No vision. We could follow the hockey game. It was, it was awesome. And we were always getting people wanting to snitch our our radio from the. From the broadcaster. Alright, we are down too. 4 min. So if anyone has any other question. Let us know. I'm gonna share our wrap up. Lori says that Her old O and M's sponsor had a brother who used to use his monocular to check out the girls on this other side of the arena or the gym in their younger days. Yeah.