TRANSCRIPT - LetÕs Be Real: Building and Maintaining Collaborative Relationships within the Team- 8/28/29 >>Edgenie: Hi, everyone. This is Edgenie. We're so excited to be with you today. We wanted to give us an opportunity to, as we think about the beginning of the school year, also bring you some real, you know, real tips, some things that will work in real life. So our theme is going to be let's be real or keeping it real. Let's look at our objectives for our short time today. We'll go to the next slide, please. There we go. So one of our hopes is that we will all walk away from our time together with a shared understanding of the elements of collaborative relationships. As part of that, we want to talk about realistic strategies for building relationships with all of the team members. And we'll also talk about approaches that maintain effective teaming throughout the busy school year. Emily. We can go to the next slide. >>Emily: Yeah. So we're talking about, you know, let's keep it real and talking about establishing those relationships and also how to maintain it. Keeping in mind that you and your student may not be the only thing going on with those other individuals on the team. And when you're thinking about the team members, you know, of course we're thinking about the student, but also the family. And that family involvement is just so important in supporting the student and making that connection with the family, just like you would with a student, establishing that rapport, a level of trust. It takes some time and energy on your part and it also takes some time and energy for that family. And I think sometimes we may lose sight of that because in our own families and our own outside of work life things can get really overwhelming quickly. And especially when you have a student with a vision impairment or other sensory impairments, that takes a lot of time and energy and a lot of emotional involvement for that family. I think that's one thing we want to stress is to keep in mind what's going on. And then the classroom teacher or teachers. I think we left off of this list the paraeducators, teaching assistants, whatever they're called in your part of the world. Because they are a part of the classroom as well and that's another area or another people that we sometimes forget about, including on the team and about how important they are. And then of course we have the TSVI, COMS, TDHH, all the alphabet soup with the service providers for visually impaired kids. And then the related service providers, OT, PT. OT, PT, speech, APE, music therapy. Those people play a really important role on the team -- I got distracted by the chat. But in the work that you're doing with that student, those are people that can seem like really on the periphery and sometimes you don't interact with them. It might not be intentional but it's where it happens to us. And, of course, our administrators and the outside agencies like the ECI providers, Blind Children's Program, and Texas Workforce Commission and others out there. So does anyone have thoughts on knowing how you get to know who the team members are and how you get to know what their roles are? Do you feel comfortable with that when school begins or do you feel like you're kind of the outsider coming into this team or into this campus, if you're itinerant. Anyone have thoughts on that? Edgenie? >>Edgenie: Emily, I think that is a great question and I'm eager to see if people will share in the chat. One thing that struck me, especially as we look at this picture, which was taken on a home visit for a little one who was served in early childhood intervention is keeping track of who the team members are and what their roles are can be so difficult for all of us, and especially for families. Especially early on in the journey. So, you know, I think in addition to building in time, which we'll get into a little bit later, getting to know each other on an individual basis, it's also creating a system where everybody feels like they have permission, if you will, to just do a quick check-in. Remind me what you're doing with -- what your role is with this team and tell me more about what you do, all of that stuff. >>Kate: This is Kate. We've got a couple of things in the chat. Gloria shared generally I do not meet others unless it is at the IEP meeting. Charity says our district rotates the PT, OT, and speech so until the IEP meeting we don't know who the new ones are for the year. Kimberly shared in Arizona the student's home district is also part of the team. I'm assuming that's at the School for the Blind, Kimberly. Debbie said if your student stays in the same school, it's a bit easier as the campus already knows you. When the students are new or moves schools it just makes the job a little bit more difficult. >>Edgenie: Those are some great comments. So true. And it makes me also realize that sometimes we have different types of teams within the same team. Sometimes, you know, the teams that we're invited to go and work with, the benefits of having a core team, an extended team. Sometimes what the core team will do is address the day-to-day realities of the child's education programming and then extended team members may come and go, depending on what the focus is. So your team makeup may change based on what you're focused on. >>Kate: Debbie also shared sometimes the TVI or O&M is the only returning team member. >>Edgenie: Yes. That is so true, Debbie. And bringing in the family perspective, sometimes it's the family members who are the ones who are returning to the table and everybody else around that table are brand new. So that's important, you know, as we begin the school year is to think about, you know, who's new and who has had opportunity to be a part of this team before. And just taking a moment to honor that and give space for conversation around that can be so helpful. >>Emily: With my friend, with her child with complex needs, she was describing this very experience of all these people coming to her house, to her apartment with her child in the middle and they're all talking about the child. And then asking her questions. And at that point this was all new to her and she didn't even know what OT does. That sort of thing. And then she tells me now that her daughter actually just graduated from high school, that she at one point started going into ARDs and there would be all these people in there, half of whom she didn't recognize and she felt like that group changed all the time where she just kind of gave up trying to keep track of who was who or who did what. The main person for her was the VI teacher and the classroom teacher. >>Edgenie: That's an important point. Thank you for bringing that up. Thank you. Let's move to collaborative relationships. So, again, when we were researching, preparing for our time together, one of the phrases that we found in the literature that we really, really appreciated that we thought described collaborative relationships is collaboration is the action of working together to accomplish a goal. So, again, it's an action. It's not just the process of getting to know each other but it's also working together on a mutual goal. So this involves some of the elements that we came up with were mutual respect, communication, built trust, which is an ongoing process, investment, and shared responsibility. What we would love for you all to do right now is go ahead and put in the chat other elements that you think should be part of collaborative relationships. And if you can't think of any additional ones, tell us which ones are of high priority. Your highest priority. >>Emily: Those that are highest priority to you as you're beginning a school year with new staff members, new team members. How you go about establishing those relationships. >>Edgenie: Debbie says active listening to each other's opinions. And Tara says mutual respect, student focused. Kaycee, assuming everyone has a student's best interest at heart. Megan, sharing information. Those are all great. Flexibility. Trust is number one. Yes! Heather, that is great. I recently heard -- we talk a lot about trust, you know, being a foundational for relationships. And I think that's really important to go back and remember is that trust, it is a process. It's something that we all earn through our interactions and through the work that we do together. And so relationships are built on trust. Marla says authenticity. Tanya's talking about asking for input to help problem solve. That's great. And Charity is talking about understanding the child and the child's condition and capabilities. These are all fantastic. Let's visit real quickly why we work at having collaborative relationships. Emily, would you like to handle this? >>Emily: I'll do my best. I keep getting kicked off. I think was already mentioned the one reason to really put a lot of effort and time into this and why it's so important is the student. That's why we're all here. That's why everybody on the team is here. And to remember that the idea of collaboration is not about the process for taking care of the child and it's not about the system that already exists. It's about meeting that child, meeting that family where they are and keeping that in focus and helping others on the team member that you as the TSVI or COMS that have the experience and the expertise on it, but how to share that information and bring it to the team in a way that is beneficial to them. So it seems like what you have to bring is what they want to know without coming in as I'm the expert so you must listen to me and, you know, if you do it this way, you're wrong. But that collaboration brings success over time. It increases productivity because some of the stuff that we do or that we want to address, like from ECC, may be already happening with a team member and spending time with that person or just listening to them, maybe going and observing what they're doing with the student gives you that information and can help guide what services you focus on or what instruction that you focus on. You know, avoiding the battle. If you're saying this is a collaboration, we're all going to work together. We're not looking through that lens of my skills are better than yours. Mine are more important. So, again, acting as the expert's opinion that can't be violated. I think another important thing to remember is that when you're engaged in this process and including the student as a team member and the family, you know, that models what self-advocacy looks like for a student and that's one of our ECC areas. And it also is, you know, something that is helpful to the student to understand that road to self-determination. And, you know, knowing what to focus on and knowing how to interact in a productive way with others in their world is really important for them to know. Do you have any thoughts, Edgenie? >>Edgenie: Oh, I love what you shared. I will point out that we have a picture here of a young man who is starting third grade this year. I think this picture is maybe a year or two old. But Emily, just like you were talking about, I think this young man is a wonderful illustration of how the team has been very intentional about involving him from an early age in the whole process of teaming. And, because of that, even what I have seen year to year is that he has taken on more and more responsibility and leadership with helping the team make decisions that what's appropriate for his education. He's got incredible communication skills and self-advocacy skills and definitely is making some important decisions about access for him, et cetera. So I'll give you a sneak peek. His mother has written us an article that will be in the fall Texas SenseAbilities edition. You'll want to meet this young man through the eyes of his mom when the Texas SenseAbilities fall edition comes out. So let's talk about the approach that you want to take. And we know that there are many approaches and there's really a mixture of all of this. We want to emphasize a positive approach which we believe have these elements. The first and foremost is assume best intentions. As you're interacting with each member of the team or collectively as a team, just having that mindset of best -- everyone is working from best intentions. That is what is in their heart, that is what is motivating them and guiding them going forward. Also aseem competency and assume a shared goal. That doesn't mean that you don't want from time to time to stop and have some conversation about the goal to make sure that we're all understanding it the same way and that we are, in effect, on the same page. But let's do assume a shared goal, which should be focused on the child. And embrace that this is an imperfect and ongoing process of building collaborative relationships. It doesn't happen overnight. It will not happen in the very first meeting that you have. And as we'll talk about when we get to talking about team development process, it can feel really, really messy. Emily, do you have any thoughts? >>Emily: Yeah, I think that idea of -- I saw in the chat someone posted respecting each other's time. But when you come through that mindset of that person has best intentions and is competent in their job and is going to contribute in the same way that you are looking to contribute for that student, that you further establish trust in that relationship and are able to communicate that level of professionalism between you and the team members that helps to do more productivity or more success with that student because you're not presenting as -- again, I think I said that before. As the expert. That these other people are there to do their job. They know how to do it and they want for that child to have success. >>Edgenie: We mentioned just a moment ago the team development process. We wanted to go ahead and share with you Tuckmen's Model for Nurturing a Team to High Performance. There are many models out here but this one resonated with our topic today. It's also one that I have seen in use quite a bit. I had the opportunity to work with a lot of family organizations, both here in Texas and across the country. And, you know, through the years of collaborating with them have seen the leaders that are, you know, responsible for that family organization really work through this process, many times without knowing that's what they're doing. But it is definitely a process. And having some awareness how the process tends to flow can really help, not only individuals understand what might be going on with the relationships within the leadership group, but also make you feel better when it feels like you're in a messy part of working together. Maybe a bumpy part of working together. So the Tuckman's Model for nurturing a team high performance begins with norming and performing. There's actually a fifth element called a journey. But let's talk about what forming might be. This is the stage when partners first come together. It's often described as the honeymoon period for a partnership because it's when partners are excited about the newness and potential of the effort. So we're getting to know each other, we're excited. And that is, you know, when the group really feels like it's coming together. The next step in the process is storming. And that's when you kind of move beyond being polite. The newness wears off and things start getting real. This might involve airing fundamental differences of opinions and approaches among the partners, struggling to figure out objectives, roles, and leadership in the partnership, and also feeling threatened by working partners who you don't know or don't trust or view as competitors. So in the storming stage, it can feel like things are going off track but this is, again, understanding this model can be so helpful because it's not going off track. You're doing important work. You're coming together as a team and you've got to go through this process in order to get deeper and be a more effective collaborative team. The next phase is norming. And this is when roles and partnerships and conflicts are sorted out and the partnership focus turns toward the work. In forming and storming, we're building relationships and figuring out how we work together. Then when we move into the norming part of this process, then we're ready to start rolling up our sleeves and really producing the work. This is where objectives and rules of engagement get clearer and there's a sense of partnership and identity. And this is where conflicts also move from among partners or between the partners as a group to the energy is then focused to the problem or the goal. So it's no longer us versus us or us versus them but it's us working towards the goal. The next part of this phase or the process is called performing and this is where the partners have reached a steady state where it can do the work it needs to do to achieve its intended goals. The process continues, especially as we mentioned early on, there are changes in the team makeup. Maybe it's a brand-new year and the only two people sitting around the table that were there last year are the family and the TSVI. If that's the situation, then there's going to need to be some time spent doing the forming and storming before you can move into the process of doing the work, which is, again, remember in norming and performing. It's not very -- it doesn't happen a lot, especially in our world, but the other element or step in this process that's not on this slide is called adjourning. This happens when the project the team is working on is complete and it's time to call it a wrap. This is a great time to celebrate what you accomplish, both with project outcomes and the relationship and collaboration development that happened throughout this process. I know that was a lot to share but, again, I wanted to -- we wanted to share it so that you know there is indeed a process happening as collaborative relationships are deepening and strengthening. And that, again, when things feel like you're off track or messy, it's actually a good thing. It means that you're becoming more effective and stronger as a collaborative team. >>Emily: Right. And that forming -- oh. That forming that you talked about, Edgenie in presenting that model, is just so helpful in understanding the process, which I think helps to put it into perspective when the things just seem to not be going to way they should, especially at the beginning. But, you know, the beginning of a school year is exciting and we have this new stuff that's going to happen and people are looking forward to that first day of school and meeting their students. But then reality sets in and you have a class that may be difficult to manage so that teacher may have her attention pulled in many, many directions. And maybe for that person, the child with a vision impairment is the "good" kid. The one that isn't causing havoc or chaos in the room. And so maybe it's harder to get her attention at that point. But that improves over time. Everyone's settling down with what's actually happening in their work life at that point. So then the rest of this process can progress a little more easily or it will progress just after you get to that point or past that point of everybody figuring out what they're doing. Now, next slide. So we're thinking about strategies for connecting. And, you know, we're saying avoid recipe thinking, just meaning just as it sounds, a recipe. We need, you know, two teaspoons of OT and half a teaspoon of music therapy and three tablespoons of O&M. You know, that's -- we can think that way and we can think of how these are all separate. But when you're making a recipe it turns into a different thing, a whole thing where all of those pieces are important and by working together you can really help that student find success. And then just being curious about what those other people's role is, what they're working on, what goals they have for that student. You know, and how -- and being curious about how you as the TSVI or the COMS can support what they are doing. How you can fit in with their goals. And then that humility part. You know, and that's important too because especially cultural humility. Family's culture but also the campus culture and that can differ from campus to campus if you're an itinerant. You're adjusting to what's happening on that campus and how they work together. And looking at what your shared interests are. You can talk about some things that are outside of work and making those kind of connections further builds that relationship and can have a lot of benefits to what you're working on for that student. And especially with families or with other people on the campus, we are thinking of who is the ambassador, meaning who is the person who already has that relationship with these other team members that can introduce you, can better explain to you what the student is working on with these other providers because they're the ones that classroom teacher maybe has had their student in their classroom for four years. So there's already a level of trust with those other providers and with the family. So there were some comments in the chat. Do you want to share those? >>Kate: So Mara said this is such a great slide. Heather said I appreciate this process helps me understand where we are as a team and using that from a perspective of families is great to keep in mind. And then I shared the Ted Lasso quote. Be curious, not judgmental. >>Emily: That's great. >>Edgenie: Emily, this may be a great time to bring out some of the elements that you had in your article in the spring edition of Texas SenseAbilities. >>Emily: I'm back. Yeah some of the strategies are summed up in what's on the slide. But things like coming into that team and not making demands right away. Coming from it as a perspective again -- what was on the previous slide -- that you're assuming competence of those people, that they have best interest for the child and, you know, you coming in and saying you must do it this way or it's wrong is not going to help you establish or maintain that connection. An example is about Braille, from that article in particular. When you show up at the very first day -- or hopefully before the first day of school and you tell a teacher that I must have this work two weeks in advance in order to get you the Braille that you need -- that the student needs, that can set up a barrier or a wall right away. Because they don't understand what the process is for producing that Braille and, you know, what can result is they don't want to talk to you. You just made, what seems to them, an unreasonable demand and that can end up with this teacher hardly ever sending you anything for Braille because they've given up right from the beginning. So the person that's hurt in that is the student. So that could be easily approached in a different way that can -- where that relationship is established where you take a little bit of time and you help them understand what the process is, show them the tactile graphic that you created so you can talk to them about that so they can realize on their own and given more time about, oh, yeah. I see why having it further in advance is beneficial for the student because that gets the student what they need and also supports the work that the TSVI needs to do. So now the next slide. >>Edgenie: Actually, if it's okay, we're going to back up just a bit. I also want to highlight out of that article -- which I personally -- Emily is the author so I'm going to do the plug here because I think it's a wonderful article to help us think about the first three to four weeks of school. And as you go back and you read it and you think about this conversation today, I want to encourage you that -- well, first of all, if you did this already, take a moment and congratulate yourself. Celebrate. That's a huge accomplishment. If this is something you haven't done yet, don't worry. It is still time. In fact, it's still perfect time because the dust is just settling in schools and so actually you may have people's full attention if you're able to do this first. One of the things Emily does is talk about having a short 15-minute meeting with everybody just to put names to faces and talk about what people's roles are going to be and, you know, if you're an itinerant, when you plan to be on campus so people will know when they're going to be able to connect with you. And then also just focus on telling them two to three key things about the student. Don't overwhelm them with the whole history but focus on two to three things. It could be talking about what their strengths are. It could be talking about what their access needs are, all of that. Again, reiterate that you respect them, you respect their time. You're going to really try to honor that as you go forward. And then after this group gathering, having a chance to connect with everybody individually, whether it's through follow-up e-mails or taking time to show them exactly how they're going to be using equipment or accessing your support, all of that can be very beneficial. And then understand this can be a stressful time. It is exciting but also stressful and so just honoring that in each person and even giving space to talk about that can be really helpful. Now thinking about what this means for the family, whenever possible -- and we want to be real here. We know that some districts have policies. There's time limitations, et cetera. But whenever possible, connecting with the family, preferably in their home or in the community, some place that they have chosen is an invaluable strategy to building a collaborative relationship with the family. It gives you a chance to see the student in a way that is different than the school setting. It gives you insight into their cultural values and other -- you know, the family dynamics and perspectives and all of that. It's a challenge. We wanted to recognize and be straight up, you know, with that. We know that. But it's one of those things that when you can make time to do this, it will pay off in huge ways. As I was getting ready for this time today, I was thinking about the teams that I've had the opportunity to work with through the years and reflecting on the relationships, particularly between the family and the school. And I can say -- and I'm interested in hearing in the chat what you think. What I can say is the teams that had a very strong collaborative relationship with the family made the time to meet with them and work with them outside of the school setting to get to know the family as a family and the student outside of the school day. Again, while it took time and everything, it paid off through the years on that. I am interested. Any thoughts on that? Emily, I'll throw it to you too, but tell me what you think in the chat. >>Kaycee says totally. [Laughter] >>Emily: As a parent -- I've shared this with you before, Edgenie. My son -- I got called all the time about his behavior, which was connected to his disability. And at one point it felt like every time the phone rang from the school I didn't want to answer it. I didn't want to hear about another incident and I had no control over that situation, because I wasn't present. And I also felt the sense of judgment happened, especially if I hadn't answered the phone right away. Because they never call the dad. It seems like mom's always the first choice. So I can understand how parents -- [ Lost audio ] >>Kate: We lost Emily. This is Kate. You know, I tell folks all the time don't let your only communication with the family be because there's something wrong. We are so quick to call home or write a note home because we need something or we want them to know something that the kid did that's not good. And, you know, I think, oh, man, that's just the worst and the worst way to try to build a relationship. You know, send notes home. Spend some time. Take a few minutes to tell them the things that are going well. Even if it's something small like they learned a new Braille letter! And celebrate those moments so that when you do need to have a conversation you've already got that trust with the family. >>Edgenie: Yeah. That is wonderful. I love that. Yolanda Shaw and I had a chance to be a part of the Educational Service Center region 16 family engagement training that was provided for all of the school districts last year. It was an intensive training. I think it went 8 to 12 weeks. It was great. If you want to learn more, reach out to Yolanda and I will be happy to share the book with you and our lessons learned. But one of the strategies that they talked about is when are we reaching out to families? Are we taking time just to say, you know, send a message of we appreciate you. We thank you. With nothing else. No other ask associated with it. I think, you know, what an important reminder. We all like to have the connections that are good too. And if every time the phone rings it's like, oh, my gosh. I know as a parent myself, you know, one of the first things I did was I started working with new teams. I said I want your phone calls. I want you to call me when things are challenging at school. But can we set up some norms? The first thing I need you to do is just don't even worry about telling me who you are. Tell me if my son is okay or he's not. Is this an emergency or not. I got lots of phone calls of going, you know, he's okay. It's not an emergency. We need to talk. And I'm like, okay. My blood pressure just dropped low enough that we can have this conversation. That will be great. I want to pause real quick to read. Kate, can you read Charity's comment? >>Kate: Absolutely. Charity said as a parent I think that would be a great way to do it because I hear more than once I don't know how he is at home or anywhere else but here... if they had a whole picture it would help not only them but us. >>Edgenie: Yes, agree. >>Kate: Yolanda said connections are built when we start off on a positive note. >>Edgenie: Absolutely. Emily, did we get you back? >>Emily: I'm back. But there was a special ed teacher at this campus, he was in high school. And that teacher made a point to call me to celebrate the small things, positive things that happened. You know, and I start to cry right now about that person who -- he was there for my son and he did want him to be successful. So I was so appreciative of the fact that he made that effort because it really changed as far as being able to trust us more. I was always thinking something bad was happening when I got a call. >>Edgenie: Emily, you left us on a cliffhanger. You've got to tell us the rest of the story. That's important. I appreciate that. All right. Well, so here we are, we've been working on kicking off the school year. We've been thoughtful about connecting with individuals, working together as a team, learning together, getting things set up. Working out the group norms, how we're going to communicate. How we're going to celebrate all of that. So what do we do after that? What do we do with the rest of the school year? Well, we've got to work that process we talked about earlier. We've got to maintain those collaborative relationships. And on this slide we have a drawing that was done by an artist. Her name is Robin Hallet, I believe that's how you can pronounce it. You can find her at Intuitive Healing. It's called the Journey. It says what we expect it to be like -- and there's an arrow, a straight arrow that's starting lower left and going upper right. It's a straight line. It's projecting upward. And the reality is how it really is is the squiggly line. She's got lots of squiggles. It goes up, makes a heart and dips down, it's a roller coaster, does loops, does another dip and goes up. So this is the reality and it is part of that process, believe it or not. The two are tied together. This includes the maintenance of the collaborative relationships includes recognizing individual and team stressors. They're going to keep happening and just taking a moment to honor that. Again, you never know if the person coming into the meeting, they may have just come in from taking a very difficult phone call. Maybe like Emily was talking about, the school called on their own child and they've got -- their energy level is up and they're thinking about that. Or a project is looming or other feelings that the person is experiencing. So that's one reason that it's helpful to do check-ins. Either collectively as a group or on an individual basis. Don't forget to celebrate along the way, even if it's just for a moment. Today in our team meeting we had a minute where we just went, yay! It felt good to be able to do that. If you can build those in along the way, it will go a long way in helping people feel energized and part of the team and motivated to continue working towards the goal. And as part of all of this, find time to laugh together. >>Emily: I saw in the chat about planning a trip to Paris and ending up in Rome. And Kate referred Edgenie, let's come back and talk about that. But I think it's about the team that you're working with this year. And so I drove to the school with that in mind and went to the meeting. It was a very productive meeting. At the end of it, as we were all, you know, kind of collectively catching our breath, I mentioned to my son's classroom teacher -- he was in a self-contained classroom at that point. I said, you know, I was just sharing with my supervisor before leaving that getting ready for today was very different for me. I didn't have some of the, you know, the gentiles that I typically do, like not sleeping, et cetera. And I said that's -- I think the reason it hit me during the discussion, during the IEP meeting, I think the reason why is because we had worked hard in building collaborative relationships and we were working hard together, collectively, towards the goal of supporting my son and giving him an appropriate education. And I knew in that meeting that if things went different than I had anticipated or we encountered something that I wasn't ready for that we would be okay. Because we were a team and we would figure it out together. And my son's classroom teacher looked at me and said I totally agree. Edgenie, don't forget you're not the only one with sweaty palms and not being able to sleep the night before IEP meetings. We all are doing that. For me, that was a game changer. It reminded me that we all have to deal with our emotions and we go into these team efforts with some angst because sometimes they can be challenging. But sometimes they can be incredible. And the thing is when we press in and we make a commitment collectively to have these collaborative relationships, great things happen. Not only for the entire team, but most importantly for the student. So, with that, Emily? >>Emily: I think you summed it up very well, Edgenie. I like that. >>Edgenie: Well, with that, we wanted to -- >>Emily: [Inaudible] >>Edgenie: Yeah. >>Emily: There was just some more comments in the chat that I kind of lost track of. Kate, would you want to share some of that? >>Kate: Sure. We talked a little bit in the chat -- I think you referenced it already -- but the planning a trip to Paris. There's a wonderful poem called Welcome to Holland. You can Google that but talking about a family planning a trip to Italy and ending up somewhere else. Heather said it's so true and Holland rocks. Heather would know very well how great Holland is. Sarah Mossberger in reference to the IEP meeting said there's nothing like the IEP meeting sweats. That's true. Even when it's going well. Even at this point in my career get nervous for an IEP meeting. >>Edgenie: That's great. Well, this is Edgenie again. Before we wrap up, I do want to mention -- I think Mara brought up that I had mentioned a couple of times Texas SenseAbilities, which is a publication that TSBVI Outreach and Texas Workforce Commission publishes twice a year. The spring 2023 edition had two incredible articles. One by Emily called encouraging collaboration. Beginning the school year -- advice of students for students with visual impairments. I believe, Emily, you have another one that will be published in the fall 2023 edition. There's another article in there -- they're all great. One -- the other one is called early childhood intervention: Establishing relationships with families. And hot off the press, ladies and gentlemen, is the Texas SenseAbilities special edition on the family engagement report. If you don't know what I'm talking about, get to the website right now -- well, after Kate gives the code -- and check it out. We're very excited that this is out there and we really hope to have continued conversations on this important topic. >>Kate: Thank you so much, Edgenie and Emily. Man, collaboration, that's a skill that we have got to have. I mean, when you think special education, it's nothing but that. Especially for those of you who are itinerant teachers, when we're with our students for just moments out of their education, moments, that we've got to be master collaborators so we know the team knows strategies to implement and whatnot. This is a topic that we could spend hours on, for sure. Emily and Edgenie, thank you so much for giving us some strategies and some things to think about. Appreciate that.