1 00:00:05,372 --> 00:00:06,607 [ Music ] 2 00:00:06,607 --> 00:00:08,609 >> Narrator: Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired 3 00:00:08,609 --> 00:00:11,879 Outreach Programs present Active Learning Study Group, 4 00:00:11,879 --> 00:00:16,183 March 3rd, 2015; presented by Kate Hurst, 5 00:00:16,183 --> 00:00:19,519 Statewide Staff Development Coordinator and Matt Schultz, 6 00:00:19,519 --> 00:00:25,058 a Deafblind Education Consultant for the Outreach Programs. 7 00:00:25,058 --> 00:00:29,062 >> Matt: So we are here today to talk about Chapter 7 in Lilli's 8 00:00:29,062 --> 00:00:32,866 book, Early Learning Step‑by‑Step. 9 00:00:32,866 --> 00:00:36,637 It's kind of a fun chapter, kind of an easy chapter. 10 00:00:36,637 --> 00:00:39,673 I think she outlines the information in a real as a 11 00:00:39,673 --> 00:00:42,676 matter of fact standpoint. 12 00:00:42,676 --> 00:00:44,811 It's kind of easy to follow, which is nice. 13 00:00:44,811 --> 00:00:46,480 And it's all about learning to eat. 14 00:00:46,480 --> 00:00:47,848 >> Kate: Yes. 15 00:00:47,848 --> 00:00:48,949 >> Matt: And kind of teaching to eat. 16 00:00:48,949 --> 00:00:49,983 >> Kate: Yes, yes. 17 00:00:49,983 --> 00:00:52,052 >> Matt: At the same time, right? 18 00:00:52,052 --> 00:00:53,887 We learn about both. 19 00:00:53,887 --> 00:00:56,156 I thought it was interesting, in the first part of this chapter 20 00:00:56,156 --> 00:01:01,194 she points out that, "Students without disability learn to eat 21 00:01:01,194 --> 00:01:04,331 in a span of 2 to 4 years." 22 00:01:04,331 --> 00:01:06,333 >> Kate: Yeah, which, you know, I tell you for me, I thought 23 00:01:06,333 --> 00:01:10,170 that was ‑‑ it seemed like a long time. 24 00:01:10,170 --> 00:01:11,171 >> Yeah. 25 00:01:11,171 --> 00:01:13,440 At first, too, then you start to think about when that process 26 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:18,345 starts, you know, and It starts to make a little more sense. 27 00:01:18,345 --> 00:01:20,681 She also had a statistic that said, "Students with 28 00:01:20,681 --> 00:01:25,218 disabilities typically take 4 to 10 years to eat." 29 00:01:25,218 --> 00:01:28,822 And that got my wheels spinning, thinking back to the students 30 00:01:28,822 --> 00:01:32,192 that I've worked with and I think that -- that maybe y'all 31 00:01:32,192 --> 00:01:35,696 have this experience, too -- you know, I've worked with kids that 32 00:01:35,696 --> 00:01:37,264 are all over that spectrum. 33 00:01:37,264 --> 00:01:40,567 And -- and 10 years and counting I think. 34 00:01:40,567 --> 00:01:41,668 >> Kate: Yes, that's true. 35 00:01:41,668 --> 00:01:43,937 That is really true. 36 00:01:43,937 --> 00:01:45,939 >> Matt: Which, you know, Lilli kind of addresses in saying 37 00:01:45,939 --> 00:01:48,442 every kid looks different, depending on their disability, 38 00:01:48,442 --> 00:01:51,611 depending upon their ability. 39 00:01:51,611 --> 00:01:54,648 So it's kind of a hard task that she sets out to explain this 40 00:01:54,648 --> 00:01:57,451 process, but I think she does a pretty good job. 41 00:01:57,451 --> 00:02:01,421 We will go through it together and see what we think. 42 00:02:01,421 --> 00:02:07,027 In the beginning, of the chapter, Lilli starts out by 43 00:02:07,027 --> 00:02:11,665 explaining to the reader what the typical pattern is for an 44 00:02:11,665 --> 00:02:15,435 adult's approach to teaching a child to eat. 45 00:02:15,435 --> 00:02:21,141 Says the adult shares the spoon with the infant -- to play with, 46 00:02:21,141 --> 00:02:25,946 maybe as the adult's feeding, to kind of keep the child busy, as 47 00:02:25,946 --> 00:02:28,815 mom is trying to eat her meal. 48 00:02:28,815 --> 00:02:33,754 Typical that adult uses the teaspoon to feed, which we saw 49 00:02:33,754 --> 00:02:35,589 in that little picture. 50 00:02:35,589 --> 00:02:40,093 That the child is still sucking, that they're not really opening 51 00:02:40,093 --> 00:02:43,163 and pulling the food in, skillfully. 52 00:02:43,163 --> 00:02:45,799 They are using that sucking motion to get the food off the 53 00:02:45,799 --> 00:02:49,836 spoon, and then the end of that suck results in the food being 54 00:02:49,836 --> 00:02:54,374 expelled out of their mouth, often on to the chin; and then 55 00:02:54,374 --> 00:02:56,710 it's really typical to see an adult then kind of use that 56 00:02:56,710 --> 00:03:00,247 teaspoon to scrape their chin, and clean it up, and get it 57 00:03:00,247 --> 00:03:02,249 ready for that next bite in. 58 00:03:04,351 --> 00:03:07,721 And I know, you know, from experience in seeing people, 59 00:03:07,721 --> 00:03:13,860 it's all about efficiency and getting the volume in the belly. 60 00:03:13,860 --> 00:03:14,861 >> Kate: That's right. 61 00:03:14,861 --> 00:03:15,862 [ Laughter ] 62 00:03:15,862 --> 00:03:17,864 >> Matt: You know, I don't think a lot of people, a lot of moms 63 00:03:17,864 --> 00:03:21,234 and dads at this point in their eating ritual are really 64 00:03:21,234 --> 00:03:22,703 thinking a lot about teaching. 65 00:03:22,703 --> 00:03:23,703 >> Kate: No. 66 00:03:23,703 --> 00:03:26,139 >> Matt: I think it's -- it's trying to get that feeding 67 00:03:26,139 --> 00:03:28,742 completed and on to the next day's task. 68 00:03:28,742 --> 00:03:29,743 >> Kate: That's right. 69 00:03:29,743 --> 00:03:30,744 That's right. 70 00:03:30,744 --> 00:03:32,746 >> Matt: So I think it's interesting that Lilli kind of 71 00:03:32,746 --> 00:03:34,915 cues us in that even though the adults may not thinking about 72 00:03:34,915 --> 00:03:37,584 that, the kid is! 73 00:03:37,584 --> 00:03:40,087 They're learning, so... 74 00:03:40,087 --> 00:03:42,756 She points out that typically the adult will move to a bigger 75 00:03:42,756 --> 00:03:47,894 spoon as the meal gets bigger, but continues scraping that 76 00:03:47,894 --> 00:03:49,129 chin. 77 00:03:49,129 --> 00:03:52,632 And then at the end of the meal they scrape the plate to get all 78 00:03:52,632 --> 00:03:55,102 of that food up out of there and into that kid's belly. 79 00:03:55,102 --> 00:04:00,040 Also typical that the adult allows the child to use their 80 00:04:03,577 --> 00:04:07,981 fingers to feel the food; up to a certain degree... 81 00:04:07,981 --> 00:04:09,983 >> Kate: And then they get cut off! 82 00:04:09,983 --> 00:04:10,984 [ Laughter ] 83 00:04:10,984 --> 00:04:12,986 >> Matt: And then they get cut off. 84 00:04:12,986 --> 00:04:13,987 Yeah, yeah. 85 00:04:13,987 --> 00:04:15,989 That could be dependent on the person that's eating with the 86 00:04:15,989 --> 00:04:17,991 child, could be dependent on their mood that day I think. 87 00:04:17,991 --> 00:04:19,993 >> Kate: Or the particular food. 88 00:04:19,993 --> 00:04:21,995 >> Matt: Or the food, yeah, good point. 89 00:04:21,995 --> 00:04:25,832 That if the child is teething, that a teething biscuit or chew 90 00:04:25,832 --> 00:04:27,834 toy is usually provided. 91 00:04:30,036 --> 00:04:34,207 That the adult will give the spoon while feeding with another 92 00:04:34,207 --> 00:04:35,208 spoon. 93 00:04:35,208 --> 00:04:37,811 So like the child will sometimes hold another spoon while we've 94 00:04:37,811 --> 00:04:38,812 got the -- 95 00:04:38,812 --> 00:04:41,181 >> Kate: When they decide the little one is about ready to 96 00:04:41,181 --> 00:04:42,516 try, they'll give them one. 97 00:04:42,516 --> 00:04:43,517 Yeah. 98 00:04:43,517 --> 00:04:45,585 >> Matt: That the adult will fill the spoon for the child and 99 00:04:48,655 --> 00:04:53,026 place it on the plate and that the -- the adult reduces the 100 00:04:53,026 --> 00:04:55,095 feeding to a minimum. 101 00:04:55,095 --> 00:04:58,732 I think it's switching as much work load as possible right? 102 00:04:58,732 --> 00:05:02,836 >> Kate: They start backing off and allowing the child to do 103 00:05:02,836 --> 00:05:06,673 more of the feeding and -- 104 00:05:06,673 --> 00:05:09,075 >> Matt: As they're ready... 105 00:05:09,075 --> 00:05:10,610 >> Kate: Yeah. 106 00:05:10,610 --> 00:05:12,946 >> Matt: This guy is kind of advanced here. 107 00:05:12,946 --> 00:05:16,216 >> Kate: Yeah, got that spoon but he's using those hands. 108 00:05:16,216 --> 00:05:17,217 [Laughter] 109 00:05:17,217 --> 00:05:18,218 >> So that's typical. 110 00:05:18,218 --> 00:05:21,521 That's good to know, right? 111 00:05:21,521 --> 00:05:22,923 That that's okay. 112 00:05:22,923 --> 00:05:26,493 Also with the adult's approach, adult accept child uses fingers, 113 00:05:26,493 --> 00:05:30,030 like we're talking about, sometimes even placing the food 114 00:05:30,030 --> 00:05:32,065 on the spoon. 115 00:05:32,065 --> 00:05:35,168 But sometimes if it's too messy, the plate goes away. 116 00:05:35,168 --> 00:05:40,574 Sometimes the adult may insist on helping the infant, although 117 00:05:40,574 --> 00:05:42,576 the child is really determined to eat. 118 00:05:42,576 --> 00:05:47,380 Again kind of dependent on some other factors, kind of a shared 119 00:05:47,380 --> 00:05:48,448 responsibility. 120 00:05:48,448 --> 00:05:50,450 >> Kate: Well, I kind of remember with every kid that 121 00:05:50,450 --> 00:05:54,721 I've ever been involved in, they hit this place where "No," you 122 00:05:54,721 --> 00:05:55,989 are not feeding them. 123 00:05:55,989 --> 00:05:58,959 It's the, "Please mom I would rather do it myself!" 124 00:05:58,959 --> 00:06:00,126 kind of syndrome. 125 00:06:00,126 --> 00:06:03,897 So, yeah, that's always interesting when they hit that 126 00:06:03,897 --> 00:06:04,898 place. 127 00:06:04,898 --> 00:06:11,104 Because -- and even though they still may need a little help 128 00:06:11,104 --> 00:06:14,774 with something, it's like you will not be feeding them 129 00:06:14,774 --> 00:06:16,576 anymore, you know. 130 00:06:16,576 --> 00:06:19,879 >> Matt: Now she kind of switches and talks about the 131 00:06:19,879 --> 00:06:20,880 infant's approach. 132 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:24,417 So, kind of what this looks like from their perspective. 133 00:06:24,417 --> 00:06:27,887 The child will grasp and let go of the spoon, often just for 134 00:06:27,887 --> 00:06:31,891 play, you know, just starting to experience that the spoon is 135 00:06:31,891 --> 00:06:33,893 part of this process. 136 00:06:36,062 --> 00:06:39,132 They would hold the spoon, accidentally tap the table, 137 00:06:39,132 --> 00:06:42,569 maybe their head, maybe the adult, maybe both. 138 00:06:42,569 --> 00:06:48,108 They move the spoon from hand‑to‑hand, if they have that 139 00:06:48,108 --> 00:06:49,109 ability. 140 00:06:49,109 --> 00:06:53,580 In the high chair the infant will grasp the food using their 141 00:06:53,580 --> 00:06:56,916 grip and bringing it to mouth, smearing it all over. 142 00:06:56,916 --> 00:06:57,917 It's messy... 143 00:06:57,917 --> 00:07:00,954 >> Kate: That's that great [lips smacking], you know, just sort 144 00:07:00,954 --> 00:07:04,791 of smushes in their face that I love so much when they are doing 145 00:07:04,791 --> 00:07:06,493 that. 146 00:07:06,493 --> 00:07:09,596 >> Matt: It gets messy. 147 00:07:09,596 --> 00:07:12,866 They might take the spoon from the adult, or sometimes just 148 00:07:12,866 --> 00:07:16,536 kind of ride along; I see a lot of kids do that. 149 00:07:16,536 --> 00:07:20,507 Again taking it in, learning those motor patterns, learning 150 00:07:20,507 --> 00:07:25,645 what's involved in this process. 151 00:07:25,645 --> 00:07:26,913 Again lots of tapping. 152 00:07:26,913 --> 00:07:30,116 They might stick the spoon in the food without actually being 153 00:07:30,116 --> 00:07:32,919 very successful, but they kind of know that's part of the 154 00:07:32,919 --> 00:07:35,789 process, they're not very good at it at first, but the spoon is 155 00:07:35,789 --> 00:07:37,791 touching the food. 156 00:07:38,858 --> 00:07:41,561 And they might try to pick the food up with their hand and put 157 00:07:41,561 --> 00:07:42,562 it on the spoon. 158 00:07:42,562 --> 00:07:44,564 >> Kate: Yeah, that's one of my favorites, is when they get into 159 00:07:44,564 --> 00:07:46,566 their plate, they put it on the spoon, and then they're like, 160 00:07:46,566 --> 00:07:47,567 "Whoa..." 161 00:07:47,567 --> 00:07:48,668 and then it falls off! 162 00:07:48,668 --> 00:07:50,370 You know, they barely make it. 163 00:07:50,370 --> 00:07:52,739 >> Matt: When I've seen teachers quickly -- like correct the 164 00:07:52,739 --> 00:07:56,776 student or supply them with help in that situation, but I think 165 00:07:56,776 --> 00:07:59,245 it's good to know that they are trying to do what's being asked 166 00:07:59,245 --> 00:08:00,180 of them... 167 00:08:00,180 --> 00:08:02,382 >> Kate: It's kind of an important step in a lot of ways. 168 00:08:02,382 --> 00:08:04,718 I mean, one of the things it's demonstrating, they know that 169 00:08:04,718 --> 00:08:07,420 that food is supposed to go in the spoon, you know. 170 00:08:07,420 --> 00:08:11,424 That you're supposed to use that spoon, you know, and It's just a 171 00:08:11,424 --> 00:08:14,527 motor activity that's a little too much for them. 172 00:08:14,527 --> 00:08:16,563 [ Video start: ] 173 00:08:16,563 --> 00:08:19,966 >> Narrator: A little girl with a bowl, with what looks like 174 00:08:19,966 --> 00:08:23,269 cream or yogurt, and she's playing with the spoon. 175 00:08:23,269 --> 00:08:26,539 Her mom is trying to feed her some with another spoon, and her 176 00:08:26,539 --> 00:08:29,476 mom puts the spoon in. 177 00:08:29,476 --> 00:08:33,346 She tries to put her spoon in, but really doesn't get anything 178 00:08:33,346 --> 00:08:35,348 on it. 179 00:08:36,683 --> 00:08:40,286 And then she gets a little bit, but it mostly goes on her face. 180 00:08:40,286 --> 00:08:44,991 [ Video end: ] 181 00:08:47,427 --> 00:08:51,131 >> Matt: So Lilli talks about the fact that infants use -- eat 182 00:08:51,131 --> 00:08:56,136 some food using fingers, they grasp crumbs, maybe dip one 183 00:08:59,239 --> 00:09:01,508 finger in the bread or milk, there's a lot of tactile 184 00:09:01,508 --> 00:09:05,412 exploration as they start to develop this pincher grasp, 185 00:09:05,412 --> 00:09:08,982 which is a really important developmental skill...in eating, 186 00:09:08,982 --> 00:09:14,254 both at this phase of the game, for infants, but we all use that 187 00:09:14,254 --> 00:09:15,288 grasp regularly, right? 188 00:09:15,288 --> 00:09:20,560 Anybody that goes to a Chinese restaurant user the pincer grasp 189 00:09:20,560 --> 00:09:23,696 to use your chop sticks. 190 00:09:23,696 --> 00:09:26,699 The infant will grasp and let go of some food, they'll put some 191 00:09:26,699 --> 00:09:29,702 bits of food in their milk, kind of gets all over the place. 192 00:09:29,702 --> 00:09:31,471 Again a theme. 193 00:09:31,471 --> 00:09:35,475 They'll place food on the table next to their plate. 194 00:09:35,475 --> 00:09:36,776 It's messy! 195 00:09:36,776 --> 00:09:41,614 If you -- just even watching that video...it kind of looks 196 00:09:41,614 --> 00:09:46,486 like a disaster if your goal is to, like, eat successful, but 197 00:09:46,486 --> 00:09:47,687 they're not there yet. 198 00:09:47,687 --> 00:09:49,089 So it's practice. 199 00:09:49,089 --> 00:09:51,591 >> Kate: And they are really exploring their food as much as 200 00:09:51,591 --> 00:09:52,826 it's about eating. 201 00:09:52,826 --> 00:09:56,996 You know, It's experiencing those textures, seeing what food 202 00:09:56,996 --> 00:10:00,834 does if I drop it off my tray and it goes to the floor. 203 00:10:00,834 --> 00:10:03,837 >> Kate: All of that development stuff that we've been talking 204 00:10:03,837 --> 00:10:07,640 about, through movement, through student or kid initiated 205 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:11,945 movement, is being brought full force into the eating arena. 206 00:10:11,945 --> 00:10:14,447 [ Video start: ] 207 00:10:14,447 --> 00:10:18,151 >> Narrator: A child sits at a high chair with small pieces of 208 00:10:18,151 --> 00:10:20,253 food on the tray. 209 00:10:20,253 --> 00:10:24,757 He carefully pinches the food with his two fingers to grasp 210 00:10:24,757 --> 00:10:29,762 and successfully puts it in his mouth. 211 00:10:32,765 --> 00:10:36,836 He continues to pick up another piece of food in the same way. 212 00:10:36,836 --> 00:10:41,841 [ Video end: ] 213 00:11:07,100 --> 00:11:10,103 >> Kate: I think a lot of you have seen this going on, but 214 00:11:10,103 --> 00:11:14,974 it's that behavior that you see from children when they have 215 00:11:14,974 --> 00:11:18,611 these things on their plate and they begin to go for these tiny, 216 00:11:18,611 --> 00:11:21,414 tiny little crumbs. 217 00:11:21,414 --> 00:11:24,317 You know, there will be big hunky pieces, but they'll go for 218 00:11:24,317 --> 00:11:28,054 these tiny little crumbs and pick them up in a pincer grasp 219 00:11:28,054 --> 00:11:30,690 and put them in their mouth with one finger. 220 00:11:30,690 --> 00:11:36,663 And it -- they will continue to eat for a long time, but again, 221 00:11:36,663 --> 00:11:39,766 it's got more of a play quality to it than, "I'm hungry and I'm 222 00:11:39,766 --> 00:11:42,335 trying to nourish myself." 223 00:11:42,335 --> 00:11:46,172 Then once they kind of continue on, you see them taking an 224 00:11:46,172 --> 00:11:49,209 adult's fork, and this is always a real interesting place, when 225 00:11:49,209 --> 00:11:54,380 they try to stick a bite of food on their fork, and they can't 226 00:11:54,380 --> 00:11:55,448 quite do it. 227 00:11:55,448 --> 00:11:58,484 And she talked about this, and I had forgotten this, but you see 228 00:11:58,484 --> 00:12:01,588 it with kids; they do a big thing with their elbows, where 229 00:12:01,588 --> 00:12:04,657 they raise everything up and come at their food like this. 230 00:12:04,657 --> 00:12:08,394 She explained that a lot of that is kids -- they don't have the 231 00:12:08,394 --> 00:12:13,132 strength, a lot of times, to puncture the food and so they're 232 00:12:13,132 --> 00:12:17,370 using all of their upper strength to kind of get -- get 233 00:12:17,370 --> 00:12:19,906 into that bite of food. 234 00:12:19,906 --> 00:12:25,345 Then you see them eating with the fork and then, it seems like 235 00:12:25,345 --> 00:12:30,016 around four, if I remember, is when all of a sudden they get 236 00:12:30,016 --> 00:12:31,818 real interested in knives. 237 00:12:31,818 --> 00:12:36,122 And I can remember that because my great niece, at four, was 238 00:12:36,122 --> 00:12:39,225 very interested in knives, and every time she would come to my 239 00:12:39,225 --> 00:12:43,029 house for dinner, we would have to have long discussions about 240 00:12:43,029 --> 00:12:46,232 what knife she could have; and I finally got a little butter 241 00:12:46,232 --> 00:12:50,803 knife, put it at her plate so that she could use it. 242 00:12:50,803 --> 00:12:54,540 But it was, you know, she would imitate what we would do to some 243 00:12:54,540 --> 00:12:58,144 degree, but she kind of used a knife more like a fork, at 244 00:12:58,144 --> 00:13:01,180 first, and then she began to sort of get that you had to do 245 00:13:01,180 --> 00:13:03,282 something back and forth with it. 246 00:13:03,282 --> 00:13:07,120 But she'd do it without holding on, or she'd hold it with her 247 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:08,554 hand, eventually. 248 00:13:08,554 --> 00:13:12,458 She would do all of this playing with a knife but a knife became 249 00:13:12,458 --> 00:13:15,762 really important to her. 250 00:13:15,762 --> 00:13:19,632 And then that place where a child is just going to stop 251 00:13:19,632 --> 00:13:21,634 eating if the adult interferes too much. 252 00:13:21,634 --> 00:13:26,639 And this is when I think, you know, my niece right about four 253 00:13:28,708 --> 00:13:30,910 and a half, she was pretty adept and if, you know, if mom 254 00:13:30,910 --> 00:13:33,646 started, you know, wanting to help her with any bite of food, 255 00:13:33,646 --> 00:13:35,648 it was just like I'm done, you know. 256 00:13:35,648 --> 00:13:41,120 You haven't getting another thing down my mouth, you know. 257 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:42,121 [Laughter] Alright. 258 00:13:42,121 --> 00:13:43,923 So Matt... 259 00:13:43,923 --> 00:13:48,294 >> Matt: So next Lilli talks to us about changes that can occur 260 00:13:48,294 --> 00:13:54,167 in our approach, if our goal is to help our students become 261 00:13:54,167 --> 00:13:58,137 independent eaters or independent as they can be. 262 00:13:58,137 --> 00:14:01,207 For bottle fed students, Lilli recommends that if a student 263 00:14:01,207 --> 00:14:05,778 cannot reach midline, that the teacher should offer a warm 264 00:14:05,778 --> 00:14:10,249 doll's bottle for them to hold, so they have kind of a like 265 00:14:10,249 --> 00:14:15,388 object, that they get to experience during that process, 266 00:14:15,388 --> 00:14:19,692 and the idea is that that will help -- give them information 267 00:14:19,692 --> 00:14:23,062 about what's happening until they develop that midline skill, 268 00:14:23,062 --> 00:14:26,933 when they can -- they can touch the actual bottle. 269 00:14:26,933 --> 00:14:29,969 She does point out that forcing the child to hold the bottle is 270 00:14:29,969 --> 00:14:32,472 ineffective in teaching them to become eaters. 271 00:14:32,472 --> 00:14:35,208 So I think that's something for us to remember. 272 00:14:35,208 --> 00:14:38,544 As tempting as it can be sometimes to just make them want 273 00:14:38,544 --> 00:14:43,683 to get to somewhere they're not, it not effective. 274 00:14:43,683 --> 00:14:48,221 They really have to go through the steps to get there. 275 00:14:48,221 --> 00:14:51,491 She also introduces some questions or kind of a talking 276 00:14:51,491 --> 00:14:55,528 point at this point saying, "Okay, if they're going to learn 277 00:14:55,528 --> 00:14:59,432 what we teach them, we really have to be mindful about what it 278 00:14:59,432 --> 00:15:01,000 is that we are teaching them." 279 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:04,203 And if the typical approach, like we discussed, involves 280 00:15:04,203 --> 00:15:08,174 scraping their chin between every bite, what are we teaching 281 00:15:08,174 --> 00:15:09,575 the student to do? 282 00:15:09,575 --> 00:15:12,478 >> Kate: Scrape the food up, put it in your mouth. 283 00:15:12,478 --> 00:15:13,479 >> Yeah. 284 00:15:13,479 --> 00:15:16,816 If we see them with the spoon on their chin we're going to go, 285 00:15:16,816 --> 00:15:19,552 "Whoa, that's not what I want you to do." 286 00:15:19,552 --> 00:15:22,155 So, be mindful of what we're teaching. 287 00:15:22,155 --> 00:15:24,557 So if we don't want them to scrape the food off their chin, 288 00:15:24,557 --> 00:15:26,692 maybe we should let it go. 289 00:15:26,692 --> 00:15:31,297 Lilli recommends using a serviette, which I had to 290 00:15:31,297 --> 00:15:32,298 Google. 291 00:15:32,298 --> 00:15:33,432 >> Kate: It's a napkin. 292 00:15:33,432 --> 00:15:34,433 [Laughter] 293 00:15:34,433 --> 00:15:36,435 >> Matt: Contextually, I figured it was such, but I did have to 294 00:15:36,435 --> 00:15:38,938 Google -- it's a napkin -- what the Brits call a napkin. 295 00:15:38,938 --> 00:15:43,442 She also says that a change that we can do is changing the amount 296 00:15:43,442 --> 00:15:45,311 of food on the spoon. 297 00:15:45,311 --> 00:15:49,749 If it's getting all over their chin, maybe we need to take a 298 00:15:49,749 --> 00:15:52,752 little less than that teaspoon up in the spoon to kind of 299 00:15:52,752 --> 00:15:59,225 minimize the amount that ends up on the kid's face. 300 00:15:59,225 --> 00:16:03,696 She goes to say and discuss like -- that we should be placing the 301 00:16:03,696 --> 00:16:06,766 spoon on the plate after each bite, even if the student can't 302 00:16:06,766 --> 00:16:09,969 see this step, they may be able to hear it. 303 00:16:09,969 --> 00:16:14,140 And the reason she wants them to be able to hear it, is they need 304 00:16:14,140 --> 00:16:17,610 to understand the spatial relationships between their 305 00:16:17,610 --> 00:16:22,982 plate, the food, the utensil and their mouths. 306 00:16:22,982 --> 00:16:27,420 And every time they hear that spoon go back to the plate, 307 00:16:27,420 --> 00:16:30,690 after they've eaten, they know that that's where they have to 308 00:16:30,690 --> 00:16:32,291 go retrieve it. 309 00:16:32,291 --> 00:16:35,394 And then they'll learn that, first you retrieve it, then you 310 00:16:35,394 --> 00:16:38,564 scoop, then you bring it up to your mouth, then back down to 311 00:16:38,564 --> 00:16:39,565 your plate. 312 00:16:39,565 --> 00:16:42,835 That kind of pattern -- if we keep them out of that step, or 313 00:16:42,835 --> 00:16:47,039 keep that information from them, they are not going to learn. 314 00:16:47,039 --> 00:16:50,509 >> Kate: Well, I was thinking, too, with that, if we have been 315 00:16:50,509 --> 00:16:55,514 working with the child and developed an appropriate bond 316 00:16:55,514 --> 00:17:00,920 with them and allowed -- and not overly handled their hands but 317 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:04,056 gotten in where they are more comfortable riding our hands, 318 00:17:04,056 --> 00:17:07,760 how nice it would be if we could get their hands to stay with 319 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:13,099 ours as we did that process and brought it back because, you 320 00:17:13,099 --> 00:17:15,635 know, I think especially by the deafblind child, they might not 321 00:17:15,635 --> 00:17:18,704 be able to hear that spoon. 322 00:17:18,704 --> 00:17:19,772 >> Matt: Good point. 323 00:17:19,772 --> 00:17:23,109 >> Kate: The other thing that I was thinking about is -- is if 324 00:17:23,109 --> 00:17:26,412 they won't do that and you are trying to cue them on that plate 325 00:17:26,412 --> 00:17:29,782 is maybe bringing that spoon down a little harder on the 326 00:17:29,782 --> 00:17:33,452 plate, so that perhaps there's some kind of vibration, you 327 00:17:33,452 --> 00:17:38,824 know, or that the volume is enough that there might be some 328 00:17:38,824 --> 00:17:41,394 better possibility of them picking up that sound. 329 00:17:41,394 --> 00:17:43,396 >> Matt: Yeah, kind of exaggerating that bit of 330 00:17:43,396 --> 00:17:44,397 information. 331 00:17:44,397 --> 00:17:46,465 >> Kate: Just a little bit, yeah, yeah. 332 00:17:46,465 --> 00:17:48,801 >> Schultz: And I know, Kate, I have seen really skillful 333 00:17:48,801 --> 00:17:51,904 teachers help students with this step as kind of as they are 334 00:17:51,904 --> 00:17:55,942 finishing that swallow, going hand-under-hand and inviting... 335 00:17:55,942 --> 00:17:59,679 >> Kate: Let's see, get me over here... 336 00:17:59,679 --> 00:18:01,614 >> Matt: Coming in, if I'm the teacher, Kate is the student, 337 00:18:01,614 --> 00:18:04,951 coming in hand-under-hand, kind of inviting them to the spoon 338 00:18:04,951 --> 00:18:08,854 and then peeling away as the student develops that ability. 339 00:18:08,854 --> 00:18:11,157 >> Kate: Right, right, right, right. 340 00:18:11,157 --> 00:18:13,459 >> Matt: It's an important step if we're going to teach them to 341 00:18:13,459 --> 00:18:16,262 be as independent as possible, they need to understand that 342 00:18:16,262 --> 00:18:19,131 spatial relationship. 343 00:18:19,131 --> 00:18:22,001 >> Kate: Now, I was sort of puzzled by this "refrain from 344 00:18:22,001 --> 00:18:23,002 plate scraping." 345 00:18:23,002 --> 00:18:28,507 You know, and I thought well, I kind of scrape my plate at the 346 00:18:28,507 --> 00:18:32,611 end of some meals if it's something I really like. 347 00:18:32,611 --> 00:18:35,648 I wasn't quite sure how I felt about that, but I get her point, 348 00:18:35,648 --> 00:18:37,583 you know, on some level. 349 00:18:37,583 --> 00:18:41,721 >> Matt: Yeah, to me there's -- I think because the eating 350 00:18:41,721 --> 00:18:45,391 ritual is such a cultural experience, every family kind of 351 00:18:45,391 --> 00:18:50,062 has their own line of what's appropriate and what's not, you 352 00:18:50,062 --> 00:18:51,063 know. 353 00:18:51,063 --> 00:18:56,535 Yeah, I mean, I slurp my cereal bowl, I'm going to have to be 354 00:18:56,535 --> 00:18:58,838 careful as my son gets older. 355 00:18:58,838 --> 00:19:01,540 Unless we decide it's okay to slurp your cereal bowl. 356 00:19:01,540 --> 00:19:02,642 >> Kate: That's exactly right. 357 00:19:02,642 --> 00:19:05,878 That's exactly right. 358 00:19:05,878 --> 00:19:09,682 >> Matt: Lilli points out if a student that's spoon fed, the 359 00:19:09,682 --> 00:19:12,752 spoon should be placed in their hand for feeding. 360 00:19:12,752 --> 00:19:14,754 So even if they're not doing it. 361 00:19:14,754 --> 00:19:17,857 Again, getting back to this idea that they need practice, they 362 00:19:17,857 --> 00:19:21,527 need experience with the objects involved in their routine. 363 00:19:21,527 --> 00:19:26,866 Kate's story about her -- your niece wanting to practice with 364 00:19:26,866 --> 00:19:32,238 the knife, is a good -- illustrates the fact how much 365 00:19:32,238 --> 00:19:33,973 all kids practice with things. 366 00:19:33,973 --> 00:19:38,110 So we can't expect our students just to -- to have them in their 367 00:19:38,110 --> 00:19:40,546 hand and develop that skill overnight. 368 00:19:40,546 --> 00:19:46,152 They need exposure and practice, you know, thousands of times. 369 00:19:46,152 --> 00:19:48,988 So by having another spoon in their hand during that meal, 370 00:19:48,988 --> 00:19:52,224 they are learning the concepts, they are learning that that item 371 00:19:52,224 --> 00:19:56,162 is associated with feeding and they start to learn the motor 372 00:19:56,162 --> 00:19:57,229 patterns with the object. 373 00:19:57,229 --> 00:20:01,434 Lilli points out to never guide the child's hand and the spoon 374 00:20:01,434 --> 00:20:03,235 to his mouth or plate. 375 00:20:03,235 --> 00:20:05,504 Your job is to give them the opportunity. 376 00:20:05,504 --> 00:20:08,607 Going back to this idea of not wanting to force the kid to do 377 00:20:08,607 --> 00:20:09,608 something. 378 00:20:09,608 --> 00:20:13,045 And I think it's helpful in our heads, as teachers, to remind 379 00:20:13,045 --> 00:20:18,084 ourselves that our job is to provide an opportunity to 380 00:20:18,084 --> 00:20:21,153 practice these skills, and that's all. 381 00:20:21,153 --> 00:20:24,457 >> Kate: I think, you know, if you are seeing a child sort of 382 00:20:24,457 --> 00:20:30,763 initiate something with a spoon, they're trying to get something 383 00:20:30,763 --> 00:20:32,832 or maybe like with a fork they are trying to pierce something; 384 00:20:32,832 --> 00:20:37,103 if you feel like that there is a need to actually support them in 385 00:20:37,103 --> 00:20:42,041 it, if you have to do anything, touch the fork itself, don't get 386 00:20:42,041 --> 00:20:43,042 their hand. 387 00:20:43,042 --> 00:20:45,044 >> Matt: She point that out, right, yeah. 388 00:20:45,044 --> 00:20:47,046 Letting the kid do as much as of the motor movement as they 389 00:20:47,046 --> 00:20:48,047 can... 390 00:20:48,047 --> 00:20:50,049 >> Kate: As they can do, yeah. 391 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:58,023 >> Matt: In facilitating a young learner to eat, Lilli talks 392 00:20:58,023 --> 00:21:00,126 about opportunities to experience, this is what we're 393 00:21:00,126 --> 00:21:03,429 talking about, and to practice the skills required to do so. 394 00:21:03,429 --> 00:21:07,266 This is the best way to teach these kids independence and 395 00:21:07,266 --> 00:21:08,267 eating. 396 00:21:08,267 --> 00:21:13,606 Opportunities that provide experience for practice. 397 00:21:13,606 --> 00:21:16,542 Students who have only been fed or trained, you know, where the 398 00:21:16,542 --> 00:21:19,545 adult is doing a lot of forcing, a lot of hand guiding, they are 399 00:21:19,545 --> 00:21:22,615 not being given the opportunity to practice to develop these 400 00:21:22,615 --> 00:21:27,820 skills and this impacts kind of how they view themselves. 401 00:21:27,820 --> 00:21:32,158 If someone is being trained or hand guided they are -- they're 402 00:21:32,158 --> 00:21:35,961 going to feel and be someone who is fed. 403 00:21:35,961 --> 00:21:40,566 As opposed to through opportunities to practice they 404 00:21:40,566 --> 00:21:43,269 are going to identify as someone who can feed. 405 00:21:43,269 --> 00:21:45,271 >> Kate: Right and that's important. 406 00:21:45,271 --> 00:21:47,473 >> Matt: I think that again that's something for us, as 407 00:21:47,473 --> 00:21:50,709 teachers, to keep in mind, that that's our goal, is to help the 408 00:21:50,709 --> 00:21:55,247 student develop an identity as someone who can do things, who 409 00:21:55,247 --> 00:21:59,785 in this area we're talking about, who can eat. 410 00:21:59,785 --> 00:22:03,122 What a cool thing we get to teach someone, you know. 411 00:22:03,122 --> 00:22:04,123 >> Kate: Yeah. 412 00:22:04,123 --> 00:22:06,425 >> Matt: Lilli points out it can look different for all children 413 00:22:06,425 --> 00:22:10,863 depending upon the level and I think we all know that. 414 00:22:10,863 --> 00:22:15,034 >> Kate: Yes, yes, yes. 415 00:22:15,034 --> 00:22:17,670 >> Matt: So again first and foremost, opportunity to play 416 00:22:17,670 --> 00:22:21,941 with spoons outside of the eating ritual or the eating 417 00:22:21,941 --> 00:22:24,710 routine itself, Lilli talks about the importance of 418 00:22:24,710 --> 00:22:27,413 providing other times for the student to play with these 419 00:22:27,413 --> 00:22:30,616 objects and get exposure; grasping them, pushing them, 420 00:22:30,616 --> 00:22:32,952 dropping them to see what they sound like on different 421 00:22:32,952 --> 00:22:34,253 surfaces. 422 00:22:34,253 --> 00:22:39,124 Learning all of that conceptual information about these things 423 00:22:39,124 --> 00:22:40,993 that are needed. 424 00:22:40,993 --> 00:22:45,564 A blind child never sees other people using spoons or 425 00:22:45,564 --> 00:22:46,565 silverware. 426 00:22:46,565 --> 00:22:49,802 They need that time to experience the touching of the 427 00:22:49,802 --> 00:22:52,905 silverware, the sound, the movements, all of those bits of 428 00:22:52,905 --> 00:22:55,841 sensory information together before they are going to be 429 00:22:55,841 --> 00:22:56,842 skillful practitioners. 430 00:22:56,842 --> 00:23:01,080 >> Kate: And just in terms of activities for children, you 431 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:04,383 know, this can be a really wonderful independent -- 432 00:23:04,383 --> 00:23:05,951 independent exploration time. 433 00:23:05,951 --> 00:23:09,955 I mean, if you think about utensils for eating, period, 434 00:23:09,955 --> 00:23:12,191 there's so many different shapes, there's so many 435 00:23:12,191 --> 00:23:16,996 different materials that they are made out of, you know, 436 00:23:16,996 --> 00:23:23,469 there's so many different sizes, and having a collection of those 437 00:23:23,469 --> 00:23:26,305 things for children to explore, and almost all of them have 438 00:23:26,305 --> 00:23:30,042 interesting patterns on them, you know, if you are looking at 439 00:23:30,042 --> 00:23:33,812 forks, they've got tines as opposed to a spoon that doesn't, 440 00:23:33,812 --> 00:23:34,813 you know. 441 00:23:34,813 --> 00:23:38,050 They're really very rich materials. 442 00:23:38,050 --> 00:23:42,321 And so I could see, you know, very easily just literally going 443 00:23:42,321 --> 00:23:46,592 around to Goodwill or flea markets and getting very 444 00:23:46,592 --> 00:23:50,596 inexpensive variety of different kinds of spoons and knives and 445 00:23:50,596 --> 00:23:55,567 forks and putting them in a big box or bucket or whatever and 446 00:23:55,567 --> 00:23:58,003 just letting the child explore and play with them. 447 00:23:58,003 --> 00:24:02,207 I also can see hanging them on a position board, you know, where 448 00:24:02,207 --> 00:24:05,577 they really have the opportunity to hold it and transfer it from 449 00:24:05,577 --> 00:24:09,148 hand‑to‑hand and explore which end is up, and, you know, how it 450 00:24:09,148 --> 00:24:14,453 feels in my mouth, you know, along with like baby spoons, all 451 00:24:14,453 --> 00:24:16,455 of the different kinds of baby spoons. 452 00:24:16,455 --> 00:24:21,360 Maybe the, you know, like OT's often have a variety of 453 00:24:21,360 --> 00:24:25,097 different kinds of spoons that they will suggest for a child, 454 00:24:25,097 --> 00:24:28,067 it might be an opportunity to put several different kinds out 455 00:24:28,067 --> 00:24:31,837 and sort of watch and explore -- see the child explore them to 456 00:24:31,837 --> 00:24:36,041 see if they seem to gravitate towards a particular spoon or be 457 00:24:36,041 --> 00:24:40,512 able to manipulate that spoon one better than the other. 458 00:24:40,512 --> 00:24:43,782 There's just a lot of things that you could do with those 459 00:24:43,782 --> 00:24:48,053 spoons and then on a resonance board playing with those spoons 460 00:24:48,053 --> 00:24:52,024 as, you know, playing little games of tapping, playing games 461 00:24:52,024 --> 00:24:55,294 of like bringing it up to your mouth. 462 00:24:55,294 --> 00:24:58,397 And just putting it in your mouth or letting -- following 463 00:24:58,397 --> 00:25:00,466 what they're doing with the spoon, if they're putting it in 464 00:25:00,466 --> 00:25:02,835 their mouth, you get it up and put it in their mouth, so they 465 00:25:02,835 --> 00:25:07,406 can experience that we all can do these things, put these 466 00:25:07,406 --> 00:25:09,174 things in our mouth. 467 00:25:09,174 --> 00:25:13,112 >> Matt: I like that point, Kate, because it provides the 468 00:25:13,112 --> 00:25:15,781 child the experience of doing something with somebody with the 469 00:25:15,781 --> 00:25:17,883 silverware, which is really what we're going to ask them to do in 470 00:25:17,883 --> 00:25:19,718 the eating routine. 471 00:25:19,718 --> 00:25:22,654 I know we have another video...This is a guy whose 472 00:25:22,654 --> 00:25:28,727 teachers did put some silverware in a box and provide a time for 473 00:25:28,727 --> 00:25:30,596 him to explore the silverware. 474 00:25:30,596 --> 00:25:34,700 One of the issues going on was that the little guy 475 00:25:34,700 --> 00:25:41,407 didn't...want an adult to be involved in his eating routine. 476 00:25:41,407 --> 00:25:45,310 When that silverware came out, he wanted to take control, but 477 00:25:45,310 --> 00:25:48,046 he didn't want to have the adult involved whatsoever, it was kind 478 00:25:48,046 --> 00:25:50,983 of hampering his progress as an eater. 479 00:25:50,983 --> 00:25:57,689 So the goal of this routine was to have some enjoyable moments 480 00:25:57,689 --> 00:25:59,792 with some spoons and an adult. 481 00:25:59,792 --> 00:26:06,565 And we're going to see his teacher Scott, see if Colby will 482 00:26:06,565 --> 00:26:09,668 let him play with the spoons together. 483 00:26:24,149 --> 00:26:25,951 >> Staff: Oh! 484 00:26:25,951 --> 00:26:27,686 Jerrod! 485 00:26:27,686 --> 00:26:32,291 I'll have to tuck my big foot in. 486 00:26:32,291 --> 00:26:35,561 >> Staff: [child vocalizing] Jerrod, unh uh. 487 00:26:35,561 --> 00:26:39,097 >> Staff: Come here baby. 488 00:26:39,097 --> 00:26:42,167 [spoons tapping] 489 00:26:42,167 --> 00:26:44,203 >> [Colby vocalizing] 490 00:26:44,203 --> 00:26:50,542 [Scott repeats vocalization] 491 00:26:50,542 --> 00:26:55,614 >> [background voices] You want to get your balloon? 492 00:26:55,614 --> 00:26:59,017 Go get your balloon. 493 00:26:59,017 --> 00:27:06,391 [child vocalizing; indiscernible voices] 494 00:27:06,391 --> 00:27:14,199 >> [background voices] You need your nose cleaned. 495 00:27:14,199 --> 00:27:20,639 [indiscernible voices] 496 00:27:20,639 --> 00:27:26,078 >> [background voices] Oh, [indiscernible]. 497 00:27:26,078 --> 00:27:29,848 No ma'm! 498 00:27:29,848 --> 00:27:33,852 >> Hey, you stop at the star, right there. 499 00:27:33,852 --> 00:27:35,387 You can't go past that. 500 00:27:40,659 --> 00:27:42,995 >> [Colby humming a rhythm] 501 00:27:42,995 --> 00:27:45,464 >> Camera person: Yeah. 502 00:27:45,464 --> 00:27:56,575 >> [Scott repeats humming rhythm] 503 00:28:06,485 --> 00:28:14,293 >> [Scott repeats humming rhythm] 504 00:28:46,024 --> 00:28:53,198 >> Camera person: Your turn. 505 00:28:53,198 --> 00:28:59,538 >> [Colby and Scott humming] 506 00:28:59,538 --> 00:29:00,739 >> Kate: That's a great video. 507 00:29:00,739 --> 00:29:07,446 >> Matt: So again, Colby had was expressing some oral 508 00:29:07,446 --> 00:29:11,049 defensiveness during the eating routines, possibly because 509 00:29:11,049 --> 00:29:13,785 eating routines for Colby hadn't been that pleasant. 510 00:29:13,785 --> 00:29:18,590 So this was an attempt to kind of...get rid of that experience, 511 00:29:18,590 --> 00:29:22,594 and have some nice experiences with an adult and spoons and you 512 00:29:22,594 --> 00:29:27,265 can see, you know, just how much patience it required on Scott's 513 00:29:27,265 --> 00:29:32,137 behalf, but it wasn't that long, a minute and a half, Colby was 514 00:29:32,137 --> 00:29:35,774 inviting Scott in and I think the goal is to continue these 515 00:29:35,774 --> 00:29:38,610 type of activities with Colby, so that he can have good, 516 00:29:38,610 --> 00:29:42,514 positive, interesting experiences around spoons and 517 00:29:42,514 --> 00:29:46,618 adults, and that can translate back into his eating routines. 518 00:29:46,618 --> 00:29:50,856 >> Kate: Yeah, I think that is so important and I think, also, 519 00:29:50,856 --> 00:29:54,860 about our kids that are primarily tube fed and aren't 520 00:29:54,860 --> 00:30:01,566 able to take nutrition, that most of their nutrition orally, 521 00:30:01,566 --> 00:30:05,737 you know, keeping them playing with spoons and things that are 522 00:30:05,737 --> 00:30:09,508 associated with oral feeding, and having that opportunity to 523 00:30:09,508 --> 00:30:11,510 put that in their mouth and explore it could be nothing but 524 00:30:11,510 --> 00:30:12,511 beneficial. 525 00:30:12,511 --> 00:30:17,516 You know, I think that sometimes we think when a kid gets on a 526 00:30:20,619 --> 00:30:24,189 tube that we're just, you know, we're just done with that. 527 00:30:24,189 --> 00:30:29,728 But...that...there's so much information they can gain from 528 00:30:29,728 --> 00:30:33,131 their tongue and their lips, their mouth, that giving 529 00:30:33,131 --> 00:30:36,535 continuing to give them those objects associated with eating. 530 00:30:36,535 --> 00:30:39,805 I know food for a lot of these kids -- you can't put, risk any 531 00:30:39,805 --> 00:30:44,276 food going in their mouth but you can let them play with some 532 00:30:44,276 --> 00:30:47,145 of those utensils and mouth those utensils and I think 533 00:30:47,145 --> 00:30:49,147 that's a good thing. 534 00:30:51,483 --> 00:30:53,485 All right, shall I go back to the PowerPoint? 535 00:30:58,457 --> 00:31:03,695 >> Matt: We better. 536 00:31:03,695 --> 00:31:09,000 So a great example that it takes a lot of time and experience to 537 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:10,001 learn these concepts. 538 00:31:10,001 --> 00:31:12,771 Colby is getting some time and experience to learn these 539 00:31:12,771 --> 00:31:16,942 concepts outside of an eating routine. 540 00:31:16,942 --> 00:31:19,010 >> Kate: 541 00:31:19,010 --> 00:31:23,014 >> The use of a buncher, I was going to ask you about that, 542 00:31:23,014 --> 00:31:26,351 maybe ask the group out there, how many of you have used 543 00:31:26,351 --> 00:31:31,823 bunchers with your students for anything, but especially like 544 00:31:31,823 --> 00:31:34,359 around feeding? 545 00:31:34,359 --> 00:31:36,361 Maybe put something in the chat. 546 00:31:36,361 --> 00:31:43,301 Any of you doing that? 547 00:31:43,301 --> 00:31:45,937 Twinkle is. 548 00:31:45,937 --> 00:31:51,109 Twinkle what has been your experience with the buncher and 549 00:31:51,109 --> 00:31:55,480 giving a buncher to a child who is maybe not able to hold on 550 00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:56,515 spoon on their own? 551 00:31:56,515 --> 00:32:02,320 Do you see them -- like have you done it when their feeding 552 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:07,659 situation has gone on and do you see them, you know, being more 553 00:32:07,659 --> 00:32:11,196 participatory, at least trying to do something with that spoon 554 00:32:11,196 --> 00:32:14,800 that's similar to what is going on in feeding? 555 00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:15,867 >> Twinkle: Yes. 556 00:32:15,867 --> 00:32:20,739 Sometimes I would ask the O&M to help me out, I mean not the O&M 557 00:32:20,739 --> 00:32:24,776 the OT to help me out, it's usually about grasping, things 558 00:32:24,776 --> 00:32:25,777 like that. 559 00:32:25,777 --> 00:32:28,046 A lot of times they would just play with it because it was 560 00:32:28,046 --> 00:32:30,048 something foreign on their hands. 561 00:32:30,048 --> 00:32:32,818 It really took a while because that was another foreign object 562 00:32:32,818 --> 00:32:35,587 that we put around their hands to let them understand. 563 00:32:35,587 --> 00:32:39,491 But the OT would help me, also, because they have other adaptive 564 00:32:39,491 --> 00:32:40,525 pieces to help them. 565 00:32:40,525 --> 00:32:43,662 But my experience was all around feeding. 566 00:32:43,662 --> 00:32:50,035 Along with the classroom teacher and the OT. 567 00:32:50,035 --> 00:32:53,572 >> Kate: Well, I ‑‑ I think you brought up a really important 568 00:32:53,572 --> 00:32:57,976 point that we haven't mentioned when it comes to feeding, you 569 00:32:57,976 --> 00:33:03,014 know, you really want to be working with that OT, and asking 570 00:33:03,014 --> 00:33:07,586 them to help you get creative about how to bring this on line, 571 00:33:07,586 --> 00:33:11,523 because they may have some other ideas that would tie in to some 572 00:33:11,523 --> 00:33:13,758 of that feeding and stuff like that. 573 00:33:13,758 --> 00:33:18,763 But, you know, that whole issue of trying to get kids to 574 00:33:23,802 --> 00:33:29,107 experience what a typical kid is feeling with the utensils in 575 00:33:29,107 --> 00:33:32,677 their hands, with it coming to their mouth. 576 00:33:32,677 --> 00:33:35,447 Lilli talks about spatial orientation, when you get a 577 00:33:35,447 --> 00:33:39,718 spoon in your mouth, that tells you that you know where your 578 00:33:39,718 --> 00:33:42,854 body is in space, you know how to control the muscles things 579 00:33:42,854 --> 00:33:43,855 like that. 580 00:33:43,855 --> 00:33:46,091 And so having just that buncher there where you are not having 581 00:33:46,091 --> 00:33:50,495 to fight gravity or doing too many things at one time can be a 582 00:33:50,495 --> 00:33:52,230 real plus, I this I think. 583 00:33:52,230 --> 00:33:56,234 >> Matt: Twinkle I loved your point about involving the OT. 584 00:33:56,234 --> 00:34:00,238 And I think, another partner to think about involving in these 585 00:34:00,238 --> 00:34:03,642 eating routines is the families knowing that the kids eat a lot 586 00:34:03,642 --> 00:34:04,643 of their meals at home. 587 00:34:04,643 --> 00:34:08,980 And...the more we can communicate and stay on the same 588 00:34:08,980 --> 00:34:12,350 page, home and school, the better it's going to be for the 589 00:34:12,350 --> 00:34:14,819 kid. 590 00:34:14,819 --> 00:34:16,087 For sure. 591 00:34:16,087 --> 00:34:18,456 >> Kate: And you know, that makes me think, too, working 592 00:34:18,456 --> 00:34:22,327 with the family to suggest even if their child, for example a 593 00:34:22,327 --> 00:34:26,598 child that's being primarily tube fed can sit at the tail 594 00:34:26,598 --> 00:34:32,804 with the family and maybe, you know, have a spoon in their hand 595 00:34:32,804 --> 00:34:37,709 when others are eating, you know, and to smell the aromas of 596 00:34:37,709 --> 00:34:40,345 a meal. 597 00:34:40,345 --> 00:34:43,615 I have to think that keeping them engaged as much as 598 00:34:43,615 --> 00:34:46,985 possible, and I know for some kids it's not possible, but as 599 00:34:46,985 --> 00:34:51,122 much as possible in those family activities, even if they not 600 00:34:51,122 --> 00:34:54,893 actually sitting down and eating the meal, but they're sharing 601 00:34:54,893 --> 00:34:58,596 that social interaction, the smells of the food, things like 602 00:34:58,596 --> 00:35:00,699 that, can be really, really important. 603 00:35:04,636 --> 00:35:07,906 >> Matt: Lilli talks about when to introduce a fork, which is 604 00:35:07,906 --> 00:35:12,410 something that I hadn't received a lot of information on, so it 605 00:35:12,410 --> 00:35:13,945 was appreciated. 606 00:35:13,945 --> 00:35:17,482 She says when a child begins to chew is when the introduction of 607 00:35:17,482 --> 00:35:19,451 a fork can take place. 608 00:35:19,451 --> 00:35:22,988 I think she's talking about now within the eating routine 609 00:35:22,988 --> 00:35:24,155 itself. 610 00:35:24,155 --> 00:35:27,025 Hopefully that child has had some exposure and experience 611 00:35:27,025 --> 00:35:29,027 with forks outside of the routine. 612 00:35:29,027 --> 00:35:32,831 But for in the eating routine introduce the fork when the 613 00:35:32,831 --> 00:35:35,467 child begins to chew. 614 00:35:35,467 --> 00:35:38,203 After they take a bite from the fork, replace the food without 615 00:35:38,203 --> 00:35:39,237 touching the child's hand. 616 00:35:39,237 --> 00:35:41,373 That's what Kate was talking about earlier. 617 00:35:41,373 --> 00:35:46,211 You can if they need some help try to use the end of the fork. 618 00:35:46,211 --> 00:35:49,347 To get that next piece of delicious meat on the tine. 619 00:35:49,347 --> 00:35:55,286 When they begin bringing the fork to the plate, touch the 620 00:35:55,286 --> 00:35:59,290 end, provide other activities or games to help facilitate the 621 00:35:59,290 --> 00:36:01,326 increase in strength needed to stab the food. 622 00:36:01,326 --> 00:36:05,930 If the kid doesn't have the strength to stab the food, and 623 00:36:05,930 --> 00:36:09,067 you want to make them stab it during the routine, that's an 624 00:36:09,067 --> 00:36:11,369 easy way for things to go south pretty quickly. 625 00:36:11,369 --> 00:36:15,573 If they don't have the strength, think about other ways, other 626 00:36:15,573 --> 00:36:18,943 activities, other routines that can help facilitate that 627 00:36:18,943 --> 00:36:22,347 strength, that they can bring back to that eating routine and 628 00:36:22,347 --> 00:36:23,348 stab with more success. 629 00:36:23,348 --> 00:36:25,784 >> Kate: I was thinking, you know, you could do things like 630 00:36:25,784 --> 00:36:30,688 putting, you know, playdough or -- out with a fork and just 631 00:36:30,688 --> 00:36:33,725 poking it into the playdough to make images. 632 00:36:33,725 --> 00:36:36,828 You might even take a fork and do bubble wrap on a tray where 633 00:36:36,828 --> 00:36:41,032 you could pop the bubbles to work on just building that sort 634 00:36:41,032 --> 00:36:44,869 of stabbing, you know, kind of approach to things. 635 00:36:44,869 --> 00:36:46,871 >> Matt: You know, I was thinking of like sandbox 636 00:36:46,871 --> 00:36:47,872 activities... 637 00:36:47,872 --> 00:36:48,873 >> Kate: Yeah. 638 00:36:48,873 --> 00:36:50,875 >> Matt: ...or even gardening... 639 00:36:50,875 --> 00:36:51,876 >> Kate: Right. 640 00:36:51,876 --> 00:36:52,877 Right. 641 00:36:52,877 --> 00:36:54,879 >> Matt: ...when you are kind of pushing some objects with some 642 00:36:54,879 --> 00:36:55,880 resistance. 643 00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:57,882 >> Kate: Right, right, right, right. 644 00:36:57,882 --> 00:36:59,884 What about ‑‑ do any of you guys have other ideas for things that 645 00:36:59,884 --> 00:37:01,986 you might do to sort of work on that strength for stabbing? 646 00:37:10,829 --> 00:37:12,831 We'll have to think about that, come up with a challenge for 647 00:37:12,831 --> 00:37:17,836 things that we might do for stabbing. 648 00:37:25,343 --> 00:37:30,348 >> Lilli ends Chapter 7 with a nice little kind of guide for -- 649 00:37:32,383 --> 00:37:33,384 for teachers. 650 00:37:33,384 --> 00:37:36,421 To facilitate the -- it facilitates the child's learning 651 00:37:36,421 --> 00:37:38,423 to eat if these things are in play. 652 00:37:38,423 --> 00:37:39,424 Okay. 653 00:37:39,424 --> 00:37:45,697 So if the spoon or fork fits the size of the child's hand, you 654 00:37:45,697 --> 00:37:48,700 are facilitating the child's learning to eat. 655 00:37:48,700 --> 00:37:53,204 If the plate has a shape and a size that makes it easier to use 656 00:37:53,204 --> 00:37:56,474 fingers or utensils, you are facilitating the child's 657 00:37:56,474 --> 00:37:57,509 learning to eat. 658 00:37:57,509 --> 00:38:00,044 Brings up Twinkle's point I think about OT's. 659 00:38:00,044 --> 00:38:05,683 >> Kate: And adaptive plates and bowls, or plates that have the 660 00:38:05,683 --> 00:38:10,155 one end with the raised lip so that they can scoop and it won't 661 00:38:10,155 --> 00:38:11,156 fall. 662 00:38:11,156 --> 00:38:13,158 >> Matt: I have seen some in the last couple of years, Kate, I 663 00:38:13,158 --> 00:38:14,492 haven't seen in years prior. 664 00:38:14,492 --> 00:38:16,995 And when I saw them, I thought, "Oh, man I wished I had those!" 665 00:38:16,995 --> 00:38:23,101 It had like a small reservoir inside the plate so that the 666 00:38:23,101 --> 00:38:26,471 food kind of fell into that reservoir. 667 00:38:26,471 --> 00:38:30,208 So if the student just had like one main scooping pattern, that 668 00:38:30,208 --> 00:38:33,845 the food would fall into that area, and the spoon would be 669 00:38:33,845 --> 00:38:35,980 kind of trapped into the bottom. 670 00:38:35,980 --> 00:38:40,652 Maximizing the success with each scoop. 671 00:38:40,652 --> 00:38:41,653 >> Kate: Important. 672 00:38:41,653 --> 00:38:42,654 Important. 673 00:38:42,654 --> 00:38:43,655 >> Matt: Yeah. 674 00:38:43,655 --> 00:38:45,657 A piece of dycem she recommends to prevent the plate from 675 00:38:45,657 --> 00:38:48,393 sliding. 676 00:38:48,393 --> 00:38:51,296 The handles of the cup are easy to grasp, or just the cup 677 00:38:51,296 --> 00:38:55,333 itself, you want to make sure it's right for the kid -- that 678 00:38:55,333 --> 00:38:58,503 it's the right size, that if there's handles, the child can 679 00:38:58,503 --> 00:39:02,974 use the handles to get the cup to their face. 680 00:39:02,974 --> 00:39:05,643 It facilitates the child's learning to eat if the bites are 681 00:39:05,643 --> 00:39:08,746 adapted to the right size, very important. 682 00:39:08,746 --> 00:39:12,717 >> Kate: Little tiny bites and cutting things up into little 683 00:39:12,717 --> 00:39:13,718 tiny pieces. 684 00:39:13,718 --> 00:39:14,719 >> Matt: Right. 685 00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:19,657 You know, all of us learn tasks that are hard, and we know these 686 00:39:19,657 --> 00:39:24,295 tasks are hard for our kids, making the task easier helps 687 00:39:24,295 --> 00:39:27,966 build success, which help builds skills. 688 00:39:27,966 --> 00:39:30,568 Keeping those bites really small at first is going to make it 689 00:39:30,568 --> 00:39:34,472 easier and more successful for the student. 690 00:39:34,472 --> 00:39:37,642 Making sure that the food offered is one that the child 691 00:39:37,642 --> 00:39:38,643 likes. 692 00:39:38,643 --> 00:39:39,644 >> Kate: Oh, geez. 693 00:39:39,644 --> 00:39:43,615 I...have, still, nightmares about being -- working with 694 00:39:43,615 --> 00:39:48,119 little bitty preschool, or actually daycare setting, and 695 00:39:48,119 --> 00:39:51,556 lunch time and trying to get them through the food that was 696 00:39:51,556 --> 00:39:54,125 served when it was something they didn't like. 697 00:39:54,125 --> 00:39:55,593 Oh, my. 698 00:39:55,593 --> 00:39:57,128 It's not worth it, you know. 699 00:39:57,128 --> 00:39:58,129 [Laughter]. 700 00:39:58,129 --> 00:39:59,497 It's not worth it. 701 00:39:59,497 --> 00:40:01,499 >> Matt: You can't really do it. 702 00:40:01,499 --> 00:40:02,500 >> Kate: No. 703 00:40:02,500 --> 00:40:04,502 You can offer them a taste, but that's -- you're going to have 704 00:40:04,502 --> 00:40:07,205 to try it one taste at a time to build the repertoire. 705 00:40:07,205 --> 00:40:13,845 >> Matt: The last point that Lilli makes is -- points out, it 706 00:40:13,845 --> 00:40:16,915 facilitates the child's learning to eat if the atmosphere during 707 00:40:16,915 --> 00:40:18,850 mealtimes is pleasant. 708 00:40:18,850 --> 00:40:23,655 And you know we've touched on that -- in the whole hour. 709 00:40:23,655 --> 00:40:27,792 But it's good to remember just how important the meal rituals 710 00:40:27,792 --> 00:40:33,731 are; to our students, to their families, to our families. 711 00:40:33,731 --> 00:40:38,269 And...how important it is that we teach these skills to kids in 712 00:40:38,269 --> 00:40:41,372 a pleasant manner so they can take them back and enjoy this 713 00:40:41,372 --> 00:40:44,976 time with their family. 714 00:40:44,976 --> 00:40:47,111 And I also think, you know, she talks about throughout the 715 00:40:47,111 --> 00:40:52,750 chapter that...there's a lot of skills and a lot of concepts 716 00:40:52,750 --> 00:40:54,252 involved in teaching eating. 717 00:40:54,252 --> 00:41:01,192 So, you know, hopefully Chapter 7 has brought us -- made us more 718 00:41:01,192 --> 00:41:04,562 familiar with them, more aware, you know, sometimes we find 719 00:41:04,562 --> 00:41:06,931 ourselves in conversations with other staff or other 720 00:41:06,931 --> 00:41:10,635 administrators who don't understand the importance, or 721 00:41:10,635 --> 00:41:13,705 that eating is an instructional time. 722 00:41:13,705 --> 00:41:17,475 Well, you can refer them to Lilli's book, because without 723 00:41:17,475 --> 00:41:21,379 question it's an instructional time that has huge implications 724 00:41:21,379 --> 00:41:22,547 for our kids. 725 00:41:22,547 --> 00:41:23,548 >> Kate: Oh, yeah. 726 00:41:23,548 --> 00:41:27,085 Well, and I also think for our kids that are, you know, 727 00:41:27,085 --> 00:41:30,722 visually impaired and multiply impaired; when we are thinking 728 00:41:30,722 --> 00:41:33,691 about independent living instruction, what can be more 729 00:41:33,691 --> 00:41:38,296 important than teaching someone to be able to feed themselves. 730 00:41:38,296 --> 00:41:41,199 You know, that is such a critical part of, you know, sort 731 00:41:41,199 --> 00:41:46,204 of survival, really, You know, but even thinking about kids 732 00:41:48,272 --> 00:41:52,677 that are going to...going to need life‑long support, if they 733 00:41:52,677 --> 00:41:57,348 can feed or help to feed themselves to some degree, it's 734 00:41:57,348 --> 00:41:58,583 a huge thing. 735 00:41:58,583 --> 00:42:01,152 It's a really huge thing. 736 00:42:01,152 --> 00:42:07,925 And I think because we do put so much social importance around 737 00:42:07,925 --> 00:42:09,927 eating and sharing meals and things like that, the more we 738 00:42:09,927 --> 00:42:14,932 can facilitate a child being able to participate in that kind 739 00:42:17,168 --> 00:42:21,305 of activity, which has so many potential rewards for them. 740 00:42:21,305 --> 00:42:26,310 It's a highly motivating activity, you know. 741 00:42:26,310 --> 00:42:28,880 I think that it's just really, really critical. 742 00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:33,918 But, you know, in terms of ECC instruction, it's kind of a 743 00:42:33,918 --> 00:42:34,919 must. 744 00:42:34,919 --> 00:42:39,824 And I think for most parents the better their child can 745 00:42:39,824 --> 00:42:44,328 participate in something like sharing a meal, the better it's 746 00:42:44,328 --> 00:42:47,565 going to be for them as a family in their social life, you know. 747 00:42:47,565 --> 00:42:53,104 They can go to places with other families, out in restaurants or 748 00:42:53,104 --> 00:42:58,743 things like that and feel like that their child is just a 749 00:42:58,743 --> 00:42:59,977 typical child, you know. 750 00:42:59,977 --> 00:43:04,315 But it is really important and I think going back and, for me, 751 00:43:04,315 --> 00:43:08,085 what this chapter did is going back and really looking at 752 00:43:08,085 --> 00:43:11,789 videos on YouTube about, you know, children feeding and 753 00:43:11,789 --> 00:43:16,093 reminding myself you're in the primo position now that you have 754 00:43:16,093 --> 00:43:19,597 a little one of your own to really watch all of those 755 00:43:19,597 --> 00:43:24,035 phases, but it's like remembering how many phases 756 00:43:24,035 --> 00:43:28,339 there are to a child getting to a place where they can feed 757 00:43:28,339 --> 00:43:29,340 themselves. 758 00:43:29,340 --> 00:43:31,476 And how much is involved and how... 759 00:43:31,476 --> 00:43:32,477 >> Matt: Practice. 760 00:43:32,477 --> 00:43:34,512 >> Kate: And practice and, like you say, we don't really think 761 00:43:34,512 --> 00:43:38,349 about teaching them to do it but we do. 762 00:43:38,349 --> 00:43:41,486 Incidentally, we are teaching them all the time. 763 00:43:41,486 --> 00:43:43,488 We are not always I think doing that same thing with our 764 00:43:43,488 --> 00:43:50,228 students who are visually and multiply impaired. 765 00:43:50,228 --> 00:43:57,001 We have a very short amount of time, a bunch of kids that need 766 00:43:57,001 --> 00:43:58,002 to be fed. 767 00:43:58,002 --> 00:43:59,804 It's easier to feed them. 768 00:43:59,804 --> 00:44:04,375 But the more we can get them engaged in that activity, if 769 00:44:04,375 --> 00:44:07,912 they are able to take food in orally, the more that we are 770 00:44:07,912 --> 00:44:10,748 looking at how with can we expose them and keep them 771 00:44:10,748 --> 00:44:17,688 exposed to those pieces and parts of eating and feeding; 772 00:44:17,688 --> 00:44:21,225 even if they are tube fed, you know, how critical those things 773 00:44:21,225 --> 00:44:22,226 are. 774 00:44:22,226 --> 00:44:24,228 And when we are looking for activities to do with these 775 00:44:24,228 --> 00:44:27,632 students, which oftentimes we struggle, this is a natural one. 776 00:44:27,632 --> 00:44:29,901 It really is a natural one. 777 00:44:29,901 --> 00:44:31,969 >> Matt: And highly motivated for a lot of kids, like you 778 00:44:31,969 --> 00:44:32,970 said. 779 00:44:32,970 --> 00:44:33,971 If you find the right food. 780 00:44:33,971 --> 00:44:34,972 >> Kate: Absolutely. 781 00:44:34,972 --> 00:44:36,974 And you know, if you look at a lot of our kids that are very 782 00:44:36,974 --> 00:44:39,510 developmentally delayed, I mean, I keep thinking about different 783 00:44:39,510 --> 00:44:44,282 things; like she talks about if you're feeding an infant at 784 00:44:44,282 --> 00:44:46,884 first, everything is a suck response. 785 00:44:46,884 --> 00:44:50,021 You know, how many kids have you seen that are like eight, nine, 786 00:44:50,021 --> 00:44:53,291 10 years old, and they still only have that suck response. 787 00:44:53,291 --> 00:44:59,664 You know, are there things that we can do to...to work on that 788 00:44:59,664 --> 00:45:04,001 and will exposure to some of these strategies that Lilli 789 00:45:04,001 --> 00:45:09,006 proposes, you know, benefit these children as well? 790 00:45:11,275 --> 00:45:14,045 So...thoughts, guys? 791 00:45:14,045 --> 00:45:15,446 Questions? 792 00:45:15,446 --> 00:45:16,948 Comments? 793 00:45:16,948 --> 00:45:20,318 I'm not even really sure y'all are out there still. 794 00:45:20,318 --> 00:45:23,220 >> Renee: I'm still out here, Kate. 795 00:45:23,220 --> 00:45:28,225 I don't deal with feeding with my kids, but I do give them 796 00:45:30,795 --> 00:45:33,898 those spoons and forks and knives and, you know, all of 797 00:45:33,898 --> 00:45:37,535 those little things and I bury the plastic in the metal and big 798 00:45:37,535 --> 00:45:41,772 and little and all of that kind of stuff because, you know, you 799 00:45:41,772 --> 00:45:45,376 never know when some child might be given the opportunity to 800 00:45:45,376 --> 00:45:50,348 start to eat again, and it's just -- it's one of those things 801 00:45:50,348 --> 00:45:54,185 that gives them a lot of different opportunities to 802 00:45:54,185 --> 00:45:58,789 explore different things; and compare and contrast and all of 803 00:45:58,789 --> 00:46:02,426 that good stuff we like for our visually impaired kids to do. 804 00:46:02,426 --> 00:46:05,930 I still do that, even though I'm not teaching them to eat. 805 00:46:05,930 --> 00:46:09,166 >> Hurst: Well, you know, Renee you really are in that very 806 00:46:09,166 --> 00:46:14,772 unique situation where I don't I guess maybe one or two of your 807 00:46:14,772 --> 00:46:17,908 kids actually are able to take in food orally. 808 00:46:17,908 --> 00:46:23,447 But, you know, like you say, just that exposure is pretty -- 809 00:46:23,447 --> 00:46:26,751 pretty important and you just don't know where they might go. 810 00:46:28,786 --> 00:46:31,322 >> Renee: Well, then it helps with the oral defensiveness, 811 00:46:31,322 --> 00:46:34,792 too, you know the little boy exploring all of those foods. 812 00:46:34,792 --> 00:46:38,329 All of my kids because they don't eat by mouth are very 813 00:46:38,329 --> 00:46:43,367 orally defensive and this kind of thing allows them the 814 00:46:43,367 --> 00:46:47,938 possibility to do that and put it to their lips, to their mouth 815 00:46:47,938 --> 00:46:49,040 of their own accord. 816 00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:50,608 If they can do that. 817 00:46:50,608 --> 00:46:55,079 and if they can't reach it themselves, I try to give them 818 00:46:55,079 --> 00:46:57,348 that opportunity to feel different things with their 819 00:46:57,348 --> 00:47:01,986 mouths and, you know, it just happens to be something that, 820 00:47:01,986 --> 00:47:04,622 you know, typically developing people put in their mouths. 821 00:47:04,622 --> 00:47:06,357 So there you go. 822 00:47:06,357 --> 00:47:08,359 >> Kate: That's right, that's right. 823 00:47:08,359 --> 00:47:10,361 >> Matt: That's kind of in line with Hillary's comment on the 824 00:47:10,361 --> 00:47:13,330 chat, Hillary says: I'd love to know if there are ways to 825 00:47:13,330 --> 00:47:17,368 encourage mouth movements, other than sucking and swallowing. 826 00:47:17,368 --> 00:47:21,639 Even when they feed, so often their food is pureed. 827 00:47:21,639 --> 00:47:27,378 >> Kate: I didn't get much in this book about it. 828 00:47:27,378 --> 00:47:31,148 To me I would really like to sit down and talk with an OT about, 829 00:47:31,148 --> 00:47:35,453 you know, how they approach feeding, but I do know in 830 00:47:35,453 --> 00:47:39,623 earlier chapters a lot of the things Lilli talked about in 831 00:47:39,623 --> 00:47:44,595 terms of giving them opportunities to mouth a lot of 832 00:47:44,595 --> 00:47:48,766 objects is that that mouthing, besides giving them information, 833 00:47:48,766 --> 00:47:51,368 also develops tongue movement and lip movement. 834 00:47:51,368 --> 00:47:52,370 Things like that. 835 00:47:52,370 --> 00:47:55,973 And so I would think that, you know, the more exposure you can 836 00:47:55,973 --> 00:48:02,012 give them to things that they really can mouth, the better... 837 00:48:02,012 --> 00:48:04,949 >> Matt: Even when they're mouthing, they're swallowing, 838 00:48:04,949 --> 00:48:10,488 because a lot of times the salvatory glands produces some 839 00:48:10,488 --> 00:48:14,592 saliva, for students that are mouthing, which allows the 840 00:48:14,592 --> 00:48:17,228 throat to swallow that saliva. 841 00:48:17,228 --> 00:48:20,765 So that is in a way practicing those prerequisite skills, 842 00:48:20,765 --> 00:48:26,537 getting them ready to be chewers and swallowers. 843 00:48:26,537 --> 00:48:29,440 >> Kate: But I think working with your OT would be so 844 00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:34,145 critical for this piece of it, and figuring out how to go, and 845 00:48:34,145 --> 00:48:38,182 coming up with ideas like maybe even being able to put a little 846 00:48:38,182 --> 00:48:41,552 something on a spoon; like I'm thinking, you know, dip it in 847 00:48:41,552 --> 00:48:44,688 honey and get most of the honey off, but there's just enough 848 00:48:44,688 --> 00:48:47,958 where there's a little taste, it's a little sticky, you know 849 00:48:47,958 --> 00:48:48,959 whatever. 850 00:48:48,959 --> 00:48:53,097 Or a little bit of pudding or something, but again you've got 851 00:48:53,097 --> 00:48:54,131 to talk to your OT. 852 00:48:54,131 --> 00:48:57,067 You have to make sure that you know what you are doing. 853 00:48:57,067 --> 00:49:00,204 Well, I see our time is gone...we're still trying to 854 00:49:00,204 --> 00:49:04,375 plan for next year, so I would really appreciate your thoughts 855 00:49:04,375 --> 00:49:05,910 and ideas. 856 00:49:05,910 --> 00:49:07,411 Thanks, again, everybody. 857 00:49:07,411 --> 00:49:11,682 And we look forward to seeing you in April. 858 00:49:11,682 --> 00:49:13,684 Everybody go have a nice spring break. 859 00:49:13,684 --> 00:49:15,686 I'm ready for it.