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[ Music ]

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>> Kate Hurst: Well,
good afternoon, folks.

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Happy New Year, welcome back.

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So early learning,
step by step,

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Chapter 6 was on
learning to chew.

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And that seems somehow very
appropriate after the holidays,

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when I felt like all I
did was chew on a variety

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of things I shouldn't
be chewing on.

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One of the things I really

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like about this Early Learning
book is that, you know,

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it takes you through what
does a typical child do,

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and then it looks at, you
know, what do we see happening

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with a child with
multiple disabilities.

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And so for me this is a really
nice review because I kind

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of didn't remember
a lot about this.

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I knew that babies
do suck their hands,

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even before they come
out, they're doing that.

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And that, you know, for most
children within 10 to 20 hours

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of birth, they are able
to suck on a nipple

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and that just happens
spontaneously,

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it's a nice little
reflex action.

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And what Lilli reminded me
about, within a day maybe,

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they can go on to a pacifier
or some other object which is,

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when you think about it, kind
of a pretty big thing, you know,

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when you first get
into the world.

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And then again, very rapidly
they begin to explore their --

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with lips and with their
tongues, and I just think about,

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you know, babies -- and
I'll be really excited --

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I've already told Matt that
with this new baby he's got,

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he has to document everything
this child does on video

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so we can use it to
really look at, you know,

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what's happening typically
and then what are the things

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that we're challenged with.

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And, of course, he assures me
that he's going to do that,

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in between times when
he can get some sleep.

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But then she talked
about, you know,

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that they pretty rapidly
move on to <i>spluttering</i>.

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And I thought about -- and Ann
Rash happens to be here with me,

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you might be able to
comment on this more

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since you've been a
mamma and done this.

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But I think about
all of those things

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when you first get a child,
they're nursing very well,

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taking a bottle, taking a
pacifier and then they begin

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to do those little
things with their tongue

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and then the next thing
you know, they're wanting

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to do the raspberries
and stuff with you.

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I mean, that always
seems to be one

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of the first little
milestones...

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>> Ann Rash: I have -- I have a
great niece and a great nephew,

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now, and so I've been -- I've
been able to sort of look

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at this from a -- from sort of
developmental level because,

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of course, I'm not losing
sleep, having my own child.

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But both -- they are
about a week apart.

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And at four months, they
are both spluttering

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and raspberrying,
and of course that's

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because they're encouraged by
their parents and everyone else

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who visits them to do it, so
-- It's also a visual thing.

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They're trying to copy what
adults are doing and so, again,

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that's one of those
things that you --

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that just really
hits you that --

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that not having vision,
you miss out.

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And so, if this baby
is not spluttering,

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or however she calls it, I like
raspberries better, but, I mean,

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that's what I think of them --

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that if your child was
visually impaired and you make

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that noise, they don't always
realize it's from your mouth.

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Even if you put your
hand up there.

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So it's possible that
that would happen later

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for a typically developing
blind child.

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>> Kate: Right, right.

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And I thought about that
with a deafBlind child,

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and so they're missing
it all the way around.

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They're not getting the sounds.

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They're not seeing
what's happening

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and unless they can figure
out what's going on tactually,

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and I don't know
how many parents

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of deafBlind babies
would immediately go

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to that tactual approach
to helping them know that.

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The other thing that
I have thought

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about this is what is important
motor development this is

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for them.

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That they're developing
muscles and things like that,

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learning to coordinate
movement, purse their lips,

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stuff like that, that are
so critical to any kind

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of speech and language.

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>> Ann: Absolutely.

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>> Kate: I thought
that was pretty neat.

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>> Ann: And she does
mention for our kids

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who are either hand fed
or are bottle fed for longer

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or even think about our kids
who are tube fed, because of --

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of other issues, that
those things are not going

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on in the mouth.

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>> Kate: No.

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>> Ann: And that's one of
the reasons that we have

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to spend time playing
games and, also,

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why Lilli really
encourages the mouthing.

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>> Kate: Yeah, yeah.

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>> Ann: And, in fact, not only
that if this child hasn't had

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that opportunity, that you --

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that you have several
environments

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where the child can mouth
and so it's not just

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like a 15 minute thing that
the speech therapist would do

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in trying to get the tongue
to move back and forth,

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but that it's during their day,

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they have several
opportunities for that.

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>> Kate: Exactly.

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Exactly. And you may know this,
as well, I wasn't quite sure.

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I meant to look it
up and I forgot to.

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But I was thinking that she said
that the spluttering would start

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around three to four months.

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>> Ann: Months, that's where...

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>> Kate: And that's
when you begin

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to give them more
solid food typically.

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And what I thought, too, is
that that probably comes off

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of a reflex of oh, this is a
foreign thing and now I know how

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to get it out of my mouth.

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>> Ann: Right.

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>> Kate: And so that builds into
something to get the reaction

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that builds into a game and --
and cause I'm sure when the --

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you know -- when the baby goes
that the parents mirror that,

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oh, you don't like that and
then that turns into a game

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so I thought that was
kind of, you know,

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something that I hadn't
really thought about before.

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Then she goes on to
say that of course

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when they start getting teeth,

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they will start rubbing
their gums.

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And when they are doing that,
they're putting anything

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and everything in their mouth,
primarily to relieve pain,

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and to help those
teeth come on through.

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But at the same time, they are
learning an incredible amount

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about their world
and what's in it,

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because of the different
textures and temperatures

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and shapes and sizes and
things like that that they get

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from exploring with their lips
and tongues, which are one

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of the most sensitive
tactile receptors;

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they are I think the most
sensitive tactile receptors

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in our body.

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And in typical development
that tactile information is one

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of the keystones of
concept development

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that they are getting is

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that mouthing experience
and developing that.

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Like you said, for our kids
they're missing that, you know,

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they're missing that information

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at the time they should
be doing it and oftentimes

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when they finally do get around
to doing it, we try to stop them

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from it because we've
decided they're too old

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to be doing that now.

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>> Ann: And think about when
you've been to the dentist

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or you have something
in your mouth,

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maybe a little irritation,
you can --

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well, you can't keep your
tongue from going there.

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I mean   

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>> Kate: Exactly.

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>> Ann: It's so reflexive, and
so the kids who are teething,

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they can't keep themselves
from, you know,

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just worrying that,
even if it does hurt.

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>> Kate: Right, right.

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>> Ann: But I do think --

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I love that she outlines
some mouth motor games

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>> Kate: Yes.

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>> Ann: -- that you can do
with the adult, that the adult

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and the child can do and
then those environments,

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like position boards or other
things that they could do.

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>> Kate: Yeah.

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So in addition to the mouthing,
they are learning things

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like moving their
tongue from side to side,

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which is real important
for eating,

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but it's also important
for, again, speech.

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It's really, really
critical for containing

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and controlling saliva.

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There's so many things
tied to that.

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Then as they go along, they
learn to keep their mouth closed

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so that the food doesn't fall
out and stuff doesn't fall out

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and they can do swallowing
better.

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Then again like we say all of
the mouth motor skills lead

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to what they need
to have for babbling

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and developing speech
down the road.

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>> Ann: On page 117, I
think it is -- this --

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a lot of times for our --

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for our kids, especially let's
say three -- three years and up,

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who are in PPCD, all
the way through, that --

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that eating, that
self help skill

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of eating is one
of the main goals.

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>> Kate: Sure.

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>> Ann: But she really
talks about that if --

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if kids have been on blended
foods or even bottles,

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I know there are a lot
of kids who come to PPCD

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and they've not been --
they're not off the bottle yet.

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>> Kate: Yeah, yeah.

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>> Ann: But that in
order to entice the child

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or to start that, that that
really shouldn't happen

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at meal time.

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>> Kate: Exactly.

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>> Ann: Because we
really want the eating

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to be a pleasurable thing.

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And I have seen just that
-- that kids who are forced,

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that that really does stop
that particular development;

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and Chris Strickling,
who is an OT here --

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I've worked with her
some on feeding issues,

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and what she advised parents
was this is something you cannot

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control or force.

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So you need to be very
low key about it.

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And I know in the school systems
you are on that fast schedule,

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and parents want their children
to eat, they worry about that.

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But to -- if as -- as the
vision people coming in,

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if we can help say, let's
take this slowly, can --

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can the child eat several
times throughout the day,

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because she basically says
meals are so important

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for the child's growth
and welfare,

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that the child always
should have the opportunity

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to experience them
as a pleasure.

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So we should not try to train

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or teach the child
to chew during meals.

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Which goes against
everything a teacher believes.

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>> Kate: Well   

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>> Ann: I mean because   

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>> Kate: The expectations
of others, too.

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I think that's true.

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And you know, thinking about
that when we look at some

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of the issues -- challenging
our kids, some of the things

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that I noted from what Lilli
was including in this book,

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and I added one of my own is,
you know, they may not be able

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to bring their hand to
their mouth very well.

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I mean a lot of our kids
have problems with that.

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You know, crossing midline,

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you've got to cross midline
to do that, you know?

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As you said, they may not
have been fed by mouth,

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or currently experiencing
being fed by mouth.

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They're on liquids or
blended food for a long time.

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And I know I've had a couple
of kids that were premies,

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who specially had issues with
any kind of textured food.

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I mean -- or could only tolerate
a particularly textured food.

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They could eat a Frito but they
could not eat anything else.

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If you put it in their mouth,

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they were going to
throw up on you.

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You know? So...

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and I thought this was one,
and I hadn't really thought

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about that, but she said

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that also these kids are
often only fed by others.

240
00:13:09,256 --> 00:13:14,266
They're not able to have any
control really over what goes

241
00:13:14,266 --> 00:13:16,216
into their mouth and when
it goes into their mouth,

242
00:13:16,216 --> 00:13:18,206
because for one reason
or another,

243
00:13:18,246 --> 00:13:19,766
sometimes very legitimate
reasons,

244
00:13:19,916 --> 00:13:23,616
they are only being
fed by somebody else.

245
00:13:24,046 --> 00:13:25,926
>> Ann: And it can be very
-- they are very fearful...

246
00:13:25,986 --> 00:13:28,756
>> Kate: Yes, of what's
getting put into their mouth.

247
00:13:29,156 --> 00:13:31,726
I will tell you my own self,

248
00:13:31,966 --> 00:13:34,426
whether the most fearful
experiences, for me,

249
00:13:34,816 --> 00:13:36,096
is going to the dentist.

250
00:13:36,876 --> 00:13:40,886
It's not about the things
that I know he's going to do,

251
00:13:40,886 --> 00:13:42,466
like the drill or whatever.

252
00:13:42,466 --> 00:13:45,266
It's when they start
putting different substances

253
00:13:45,266 --> 00:13:48,186
in my mouth, or those
little bridge things

254
00:13:48,186 --> 00:13:49,466
to keep my mouth open.

255
00:13:50,736 --> 00:13:53,256
I get very, very
anxious, you know.

256
00:13:53,256 --> 00:13:56,286
And I can see and I can
reason and I'm an adult

257
00:13:56,286 --> 00:13:59,266
and I have control --
these kids don't, you know.

258
00:13:59,266 --> 00:14:02,836
And it's really, they can be,
you know, if we're not careful,

259
00:14:02,836 --> 00:14:05,646
we can traumatize them
so badly with food,

260
00:14:05,856 --> 00:14:08,876
it's just a real
easy thing to do.

261
00:14:10,496 --> 00:14:13,076
So what does Lilli say
we ought to be doing?

262
00:14:14,126 --> 00:14:16,856
Well, here were some
general things I gleaned

263
00:14:16,946 --> 00:14:18,376
from this chapter.

264
00:14:18,456 --> 00:14:22,436
One is that we -- as
Ann said we need to work

265
00:14:22,436 --> 00:14:25,966
on our mouth motor activities
outside of our normal feeding

266
00:14:25,966 --> 00:14:29,976
and eating times; and
establish environments

267
00:14:29,976 --> 00:14:33,666
that allow the child to mouth
objects, even if he's unable

268
00:14:33,706 --> 00:14:37,156
to bring their hand
to their mouth.

269
00:14:37,206 --> 00:14:40,326
She said we need to respect the
need for rest and repetition.

270
00:14:40,646 --> 00:14:46,376
So, they need to have the
opportunity to mouth something,

271
00:14:46,376 --> 00:14:50,446
chew on something, whatever,
stop, and be able to come back

272
00:14:50,446 --> 00:14:54,306
to it and repeat it again
and again and again.

273
00:14:54,306 --> 00:14:56,616
And one of the things, and I
thought this was kind of neat,

274
00:14:56,616 --> 00:14:58,176
and I hadn't thought about this,

275
00:14:58,176 --> 00:15:00,866
is that when we're doing
interactions with the child,

276
00:15:00,906 --> 00:15:04,776
when we're putting something
into their mouth, that we ought

277
00:15:04,776 --> 00:15:09,186
to give them a duplicate
object of what we're putting

278
00:15:09,186 --> 00:15:10,786
in their mouth into their hand.

279
00:15:11,536 --> 00:15:15,676
And I hadn't thought about that
but, you know, it makes sense.

280
00:15:15,676 --> 00:15:21,056
If they're -- kind of needing
to know what something is coming

281
00:15:21,166 --> 00:15:24,406
into their mouth, if we can give
them the thing that we're going

282
00:15:24,406 --> 00:15:25,996
to put in and give
them some time

283
00:15:26,066 --> 00:15:29,426
to explore it tactually a little
bit before we put the thing

284
00:15:29,426 --> 00:15:30,016
in their mouth.

285
00:15:30,016 --> 00:15:33,686
And while it's in their mouth,
let them know what it is

286
00:15:34,396 --> 00:15:37,906
that we're putting in there.

287
00:15:38,046 --> 00:15:41,286
All right, I'm curious, have any
of you done, used that technique

288
00:15:41,286 --> 00:15:45,656
of putting the thing in their
hand while you were having them

289
00:15:45,806 --> 00:15:49,226
-- while they were putting
something in their mouth?

290
00:15:50,046 --> 00:15:51,936
Shelby says yes.

291
00:15:52,236 --> 00:15:52,996
I think, no, maybe.

292
00:15:52,996 --> 00:15:53,586
Donna, no.

293
00:15:54,266 --> 00:15:56,956
No. Renee says no.

294
00:15:56,956 --> 00:15:57,896
Okay, good.

295
00:15:57,896 --> 00:16:01,486
We have some -- an idea of
some things that we want

296
00:16:01,486 --> 00:16:03,626
to try I think with that.

297
00:16:03,996 --> 00:16:08,526
And to me, it really did
make sense because, again,

298
00:16:09,046 --> 00:16:11,426
you don't have the
vision, you know,

299
00:16:11,426 --> 00:16:15,566
you don't know what is coming
in and, also, the understanding

300
00:16:15,566 --> 00:16:19,256
of it is you're -- if you're
holding on to this thing

301
00:16:19,296 --> 00:16:22,686
that has a metal part
and a rubber part, and...

302
00:16:22,756 --> 00:16:25,376
you're sensing that
metal part go in,

303
00:16:25,896 --> 00:16:33,466
then you've got more information
to build a concept of --

304
00:16:33,466 --> 00:16:36,596
of that spoon, you know,
and which part is for going

305
00:16:36,596 --> 00:16:38,886
in your mouth, and which
part is for holding on.

306
00:16:38,886 --> 00:16:41,246
>> Ann: Well, if you think
about typical development,

307
00:16:41,246 --> 00:16:44,506
when kids are learning
to eat with a spoon,

308
00:16:44,506 --> 00:16:48,556
of course they start out
with just finger foods and,

309
00:16:48,976 --> 00:16:50,286
you know, that whole thing.

310
00:16:50,916 --> 00:16:57,026
But once a child starts
wanting to feed themselves,

311
00:16:57,386 --> 00:16:59,506
then they grab your spoon

312
00:16:59,506 --> 00:17:04,746
and usually what most parents
do is you give them a spoon

313
00:17:04,746 --> 00:17:06,016
that they're going to use.

314
00:17:06,016 --> 00:17:10,776
And, of course, it is -- it
is a very messy situation.

315
00:17:10,776 --> 00:17:13,396
But then they are
playing with that spoon

316
00:17:13,396 --> 00:17:16,136
in their food while
you're feeding them.

317
00:17:16,166 --> 00:17:19,466
So it is sort of a
natural thing to do.

318
00:17:19,466 --> 00:17:22,156
>> Kate: And Brenda points out,

319
00:17:22,156 --> 00:17:25,146
she says that she's not done
that, but she says I want

320
00:17:25,146 --> 00:17:28,376
to do -- get one of those
buncher things to do

321
00:17:28,376 --> 00:17:31,596
and that's -- that's exactly
Brenda, that's exactly,

322
00:17:31,946 --> 00:17:35,666
you know, how that can be used,
is when it's time to feed,

323
00:17:35,666 --> 00:17:39,466
get their spoon, put it on the
buncher, put it in their hand

324
00:17:39,466 --> 00:17:43,416
and then as you're feeding --
and even if all they do with it

325
00:17:43,416 --> 00:17:46,686
when you are doing the feeding
is either bang on the table

326
00:17:46,686 --> 00:17:49,546
or maybe stick it in something
and sling it, who cares?

327
00:17:49,546 --> 00:17:49,896
>> Ann: Right.

328
00:17:50,096 --> 00:17:52,136
>> Kate: They're getting
comfortable with it.

329
00:17:52,136 --> 00:17:53,966
They are making that
association.

330
00:17:54,126 --> 00:17:55,426
So I think it's really good.

331
00:17:55,426 --> 00:17:59,226
Jesus says he has
tried that technique

332
00:17:59,226 --> 00:18:03,086
of when he's putting it
in their mouth putting it

333
00:18:03,086 --> 00:18:05,096
in their hand to touch.

334
00:18:05,146 --> 00:18:10,726
Jesus, I don't know if you
have a lot of information

335
00:18:10,726 --> 00:18:12,926
but when you have done that, do
you feel like you're getting --

336
00:18:12,926 --> 00:18:19,046
that the kid is more comfortable
or that it works pretty well?

337
00:18:20,046 --> 00:18:23,046
Okay. So we'll go on
and then I'll come back

338
00:18:23,046 --> 00:18:26,136
to Jesus in a minute.

339
00:18:26,136 --> 00:18:27,406
All right.

340
00:18:28,116 --> 00:18:29,596
>> Sara Kitchen:
I also wonder --

341
00:18:29,846 --> 00:18:32,806
it's not something that Lilli
covers, but actually thinking

342
00:18:32,806 --> 00:18:38,196
about eating and the actual
eating part; instead of focusing

343
00:18:38,196 --> 00:18:40,136
on chewing and mouth skills.

344
00:18:40,836 --> 00:18:42,406
You know, you are focusing
on getting them nutrition.

345
00:18:42,456 --> 00:18:46,356
But you can also use that time
to focus on social skills...

346
00:18:46,356 --> 00:18:46,956
>> Kate: Oh, yeah.

347
00:18:47,376 --> 00:18:50,346
>> Sara: And a way that you
can do is that you can make it

348
00:18:50,346 --> 00:18:52,216
into a start-stop game.

349
00:18:52,216 --> 00:18:55,296
Where if you use
hand-under-hand style to kind

350
00:18:55,296 --> 00:18:57,126
of control the motion
of the spoon.

351
00:18:57,126 --> 00:19:00,736
It's really interesting to
watch a child who has been fed

352
00:19:01,446 --> 00:19:05,146
for a really long time
have their hand on --

353
00:19:05,236 --> 00:19:07,466
even on your hand, not even
on the spoon necessarily,

354
00:19:07,466 --> 00:19:10,016
but on your hand and
make a connection

355
00:19:10,016 --> 00:19:11,886
between when their hand comes up

356
00:19:12,316 --> 00:19:13,856
and when the spoon
touches their lips.

357
00:19:14,086 --> 00:19:17,316
I've seen kids just --
their eyes get really big

358
00:19:17,316 --> 00:19:20,416
and they just kind of
-- what is happening?

359
00:19:20,836 --> 00:19:23,386
But it's all of a sudden
the wheels start turning,

360
00:19:23,386 --> 00:19:24,126
it's really interesting.

361
00:19:24,486 --> 00:19:26,706
There's also kids who
really like having control

362
00:19:26,706 --> 00:19:28,376
of when the spoon, you know...

363
00:19:28,426 --> 00:19:28,786
>> Kate: Yeah.

364
00:19:29,256 --> 00:19:30,976
>> Sara: They can't
necessarily hold the spoon,

365
00:19:30,976 --> 00:19:33,676
or they may not be ready
to try with a buncher yet,

366
00:19:34,066 --> 00:19:37,306
but you can make that
into kind of a --

367
00:19:37,306 --> 00:19:39,016
'All right,' you know, 'Now.

368
00:19:39,016 --> 00:19:41,766
I'm going to eat now'
and them telling you,

369
00:19:42,046 --> 00:19:43,356
'Now I'm ready for
another bite.'

370
00:19:43,406 --> 00:19:43,626
>> Kate: Yeah.

371
00:19:43,986 --> 00:19:46,636
>> Sara: So it's not
that you don't work

372
00:19:46,636 --> 00:19:49,086
on anything while you're eating,
but just change the focus

373
00:19:49,276 --> 00:19:52,816
to because, you know,
eating is a social thing.

374
00:19:53,026 --> 00:19:55,976
So it's completely appropriate.

375
00:19:56,046 --> 00:19:58,686
>> Kate: Well, the other thing,
too, Sara, I was thinking about,

376
00:19:59,506 --> 00:20:01,596
you know, because when you
said that about, you know,

377
00:20:01,706 --> 00:20:03,406
how their eyes get
big when the --

378
00:20:03,406 --> 00:20:08,476
when it comes up like if their
hand is on yours is, you know,

379
00:20:08,776 --> 00:20:13,066
when we talk about working
with ECC, that's orientation

380
00:20:13,066 --> 00:20:15,676
and mobility, that's
spatial relationships.

381
00:20:15,906 --> 00:20:19,296
And, you know, I've watched --
I can't tell you how many kids

382
00:20:19,296 --> 00:20:22,176
who have no sense of where
their body is in space,

383
00:20:22,176 --> 00:20:24,996
much less their hand, you know.

384
00:20:25,406 --> 00:20:28,666
And so it's something that
we kind of take for granted,

385
00:20:28,666 --> 00:20:31,606
but a lot of these kids
really need that support --

386
00:20:31,606 --> 00:20:32,986
and doing it in a game.

387
00:20:32,986 --> 00:20:35,996
I mean, when getting the food
in isn't the biggest deal,

388
00:20:35,996 --> 00:20:38,676
it's just playing
back and forth.

389
00:20:38,736 --> 00:20:42,456
So -- so, you know, you
might set up an activity

390
00:20:42,836 --> 00:20:46,796
where you're just playing with
a couple of spoons together;

391
00:20:46,796 --> 00:20:50,366
taking turns with each other,
letting the child put something

392
00:20:50,366 --> 00:20:54,106
in your mouth and you put
something in their mouth.

393
00:20:54,106 --> 00:20:56,486
You know, that's a
social interaction.

394
00:20:56,786 --> 00:21:00,216
But it's also teaching
a lot about their body,

395
00:21:00,316 --> 00:21:02,416
about your body,
that everybody eats.

396
00:21:02,416 --> 00:21:05,516
I think of Barbara Miles
and how she really works

397
00:21:05,516 --> 00:21:09,336
on letting those children who
are blind or deafBlind know,

398
00:21:09,336 --> 00:21:12,856
by touch, that she's doing
the same thing they're doing

399
00:21:12,856 --> 00:21:14,826
and I think we miss
out on that a lot.

400
00:21:15,046 --> 00:21:16,876
>> Sara: I have my bowl,
and you have your bowl.

401
00:21:17,276 --> 00:21:18,086
>> Kate: Yeah, yeah.

402
00:21:19,046 --> 00:21:19,926
>> Sara: I have my food,
and you have your food.

403
00:21:20,396 --> 00:21:20,916
>> Kate: Your food.

404
00:21:21,016 --> 00:21:21,706
>> Sara: I'm not eating your
food, I'm eating my food.

405
00:21:21,736 --> 00:21:21,976
>> Kate: That's right.

406
00:21:22,296 --> 00:21:23,746
>> Sara: You can have more,
but you can't have mine.

407
00:21:24,106 --> 00:21:25,386
>> Kate: Yes, exactly.

408
00:21:25,386 --> 00:21:26,806
Those are huge concepts!

409
00:21:27,266 --> 00:21:28,606
Let's see what Hillary says.

410
00:21:28,846 --> 00:21:31,846
Hillary says, 'I've used a
buncher with great success

411
00:21:31,846 --> 00:21:33,336
when there was follow through,

412
00:21:33,786 --> 00:21:36,236
but that child was required
to use it for eating.

413
00:21:36,236 --> 00:21:38,676
He was not allowed to
explore or play with the spoon

414
00:21:38,676 --> 00:21:41,456
and other things with the
buncher outside of meal time.

415
00:21:42,036 --> 00:21:45,076
Once teachers changed and
the buncher disappeared,

416
00:21:45,126 --> 00:21:46,686
progress was lost.

417
00:21:47,196 --> 00:21:49,376
So -- and that's such a bummer.

418
00:21:49,476 --> 00:21:50,506
That is such a bummer.

419
00:21:50,946 --> 00:21:54,656
But again, you know, having
built-in opportunities

420
00:21:54,656 --> 00:21:56,576
like Hillary is talking about,

421
00:21:56,976 --> 00:21:58,876
where you are doing
very structured stuf,

422
00:21:58,876 --> 00:22:02,326
and then building environments
where that child has

423
00:22:02,326 --> 00:22:05,466
like spoons, a bunch
of different spoons

424
00:22:05,466 --> 00:22:08,676
on a position board, or
hanging in the little room,

425
00:22:09,056 --> 00:22:11,426
where they have an
opportunity to get it and put it

426
00:22:11,426 --> 00:22:12,906
in their mouths, you know.

427
00:22:13,286 --> 00:22:16,526
Or in a box on the residence
board where they can go through

428
00:22:16,526 --> 00:22:20,086
and just get every wooden spoon,
metal spoon, plastic spoons,

429
00:22:20,566 --> 00:22:24,826
you know, little spoons, big
spoons and learn <i>spoonness</i>

430
00:22:24,916 --> 00:22:28,986
and play with spoons and have
the opportunity to put them

431
00:22:28,986 --> 00:22:34,976
in their mouth is a
pretty good thing.

432
00:22:35,086 --> 00:22:37,216
So then some of the other
things that she talked

433
00:22:37,216 --> 00:22:41,586
about for intervention, and I
have to say we're going to get

434
00:22:41,586 --> 00:22:45,686
to one that will send us
all into cardiac arrest

435
00:22:45,686 --> 00:22:47,136
about the marbles down the leg.

436
00:22:47,136 --> 00:22:49,726
But we'll start out
with things --

437
00:22:49,726 --> 00:22:53,036
when she says with intervention
that we need to have objects

438
00:22:53,086 --> 00:22:56,026
that are not too big
for their mouths,

439
00:22:56,506 --> 00:22:58,936
but that are also the
size that are safe.

440
00:22:59,086 --> 00:23:02,396
And, you know, I think that --

441
00:23:02,396 --> 00:23:05,266
that again, it's just
like with anything else.

442
00:23:05,266 --> 00:23:08,376
We have to really think
about which kid we're going

443
00:23:08,376 --> 00:23:10,136
to give which things to.

444
00:23:10,136 --> 00:23:14,916
That, of course we're going
to use a variety of tastes

445
00:23:15,306 --> 00:23:19,246
and that's something that I
want to talk about is how we get

446
00:23:19,246 --> 00:23:21,716
at the taste part of it.

447
00:23:21,716 --> 00:23:25,356
Shape, size, texture,
temperature, weight, so forth.

448
00:23:25,356 --> 00:23:27,776
She says that we
want to introduce

449
00:23:27,776 --> 00:23:30,266
in our interactions
different mouth movements

450
00:23:30,266 --> 00:23:32,976
like lip smacking, tongue
clicking, whistling.

451
00:23:32,976 --> 00:23:36,686
She mentions blowing on
a piece of silk paper --

452
00:23:36,686 --> 00:23:38,616
I don't know about silk
paper, but any kind

453
00:23:38,616 --> 00:23:41,666
of lightweight tissue kind
of paper would probably work.

454
00:23:42,246 --> 00:23:45,186
Drinking through a straw,
imitating animal sounds,

455
00:23:45,276 --> 00:23:47,736
licking honey from a
tray -- I love that one.

456
00:23:48,326 --> 00:23:50,126
Drinking juice like a cat.

457
00:23:50,546 --> 00:23:51,896
And I thought that
would be fun to do

458
00:23:51,896 --> 00:23:55,166
with a little experience
story about a cat, you know,

459
00:23:55,166 --> 00:23:59,256
and really do the practice
of doing some licking.

460
00:23:59,796 --> 00:24:03,436
And then she mentions
that at some point

461
00:24:03,436 --> 00:24:07,076
when the child is
beginning to chew on things,

462
00:24:07,816 --> 00:24:11,096
that at that point, at
the very end of the meal,

463
00:24:11,096 --> 00:24:16,266
we could introduce just
a few little solid bites.

464
00:24:16,586 --> 00:24:17,436
One or two.

465
00:24:17,436 --> 00:24:20,856
You know, she was
really clear about that.

466
00:24:21,076 --> 00:24:24,806
And I... I have to say, you
know, kind of thinking back

467
00:24:24,806 --> 00:24:26,386
with the kids that
I've worked with,

468
00:24:26,676 --> 00:24:30,086
they sort of either were
eating solids or they weren't

469
00:24:30,176 --> 00:24:34,376
and I didn't really ever work
very much with kids to move them

470
00:24:34,376 --> 00:24:38,706
on to more solid food.

471
00:24:38,706 --> 00:24:43,366
You know, a couple of kids
that I worked on texture,

472
00:24:43,366 --> 00:24:44,886
they are already
eating solid foods,

473
00:24:44,886 --> 00:24:46,526
but they would only
eat certain textures.

474
00:24:47,126 --> 00:24:51,266
So I didn't have a lot that
I knew about trying that,

475
00:24:51,266 --> 00:24:53,366
where you would just start
introducing just a few

476
00:24:53,436 --> 00:24:54,886
little bites.

477
00:24:55,046 --> 00:24:57,006
>> Ann: Well, one of the
things, I know that I've worked

478
00:24:57,036 --> 00:24:59,856
with kids who pack their food.

479
00:24:59,856 --> 00:25:00,626
>> Kate: Oh, yes, yes.

480
00:25:00,626 --> 00:25:02,706
>> Ann: In their cheeks.

481
00:25:02,706 --> 00:25:03,146
>> Kate: Yes.

482
00:25:03,146 --> 00:25:04,356
>> Ann: And part of that is

483
00:25:04,356 --> 00:25:08,696
because they don't use these
tongue movements back and forth.

484
00:25:08,866 --> 00:25:15,246
So these are the kind of kids
that you want to have to work

485
00:25:15,246 --> 00:25:19,076
on those kind of
movements, even if they look

486
00:25:19,076 --> 00:25:20,466
like they're eating solids,

487
00:25:20,576 --> 00:25:23,306
but really what they're
doing is just packing it.

488
00:25:23,306 --> 00:25:24,626
>> Kate: They're just packing...

489
00:25:24,946 --> 00:25:26,486
>> Ann: They're just stuffing.

490
00:25:27,446 --> 00:25:30,596
And so I think sometimes --
and your speech therapist

491
00:25:30,596 --> 00:25:36,106
or your OT would definitely be
the person to talk to about ,

492
00:25:36,656 --> 00:25:38,516
'Is this real functional?

493
00:25:39,016 --> 00:25:44,246
Are there other things we can
do that would improve this?'

494
00:25:44,376 --> 00:25:51,696
because -- and some kids can't
tolerate food that is watery

495
00:25:51,696 --> 00:25:57,026
or they have a hard time
with liquids, because it goes

496
00:25:57,076 --> 00:25:59,006
into other parts of their mouth

497
00:25:59,146 --> 00:26:01,756
and they don't know
how to get it.

498
00:26:02,206 --> 00:26:03,216
>> Kate: Control it.

499
00:26:03,216 --> 00:26:05,106
>> Ann: They don't
know how to control it.

500
00:26:05,106 --> 00:26:05,496
>> Sara: They end up coughing...

501
00:26:05,496 --> 00:26:05,563
[ Multiple voices ]

502
00:26:05,563 --> 00:26:05,766
>> Ann: Right.

503
00:26:05,766 --> 00:26:09,236
So I think that we've
probably all had kids

504
00:26:09,536 --> 00:26:12,256
that needed this kind of thing.

505
00:26:12,686 --> 00:26:15,596
But we didn't go back.

506
00:26:15,876 --> 00:26:20,246
We just moved forward and
let them do the packing or,

507
00:26:20,456 --> 00:26:23,546
you know, someone probably in
their world was taking care

508
00:26:23,546 --> 00:26:25,766
of it, but it would
have been nice for it

509
00:26:25,766 --> 00:26:28,966
to be a team approach
and really look at that.

510
00:26:28,966 --> 00:26:31,536
>> Kate: Well, and I
was going to say for me,

511
00:26:31,536 --> 00:26:34,746
when I had these kids, I sort
of like worked with my OT,

512
00:26:34,826 --> 00:26:36,936
they would come in
and do therapy

513
00:26:36,936 --> 00:26:40,286
and they might give me a little
assignment for, you know,

514
00:26:40,286 --> 00:26:42,006
the little chew things.

515
00:26:42,006 --> 00:26:42,896
>> Ann: Right.

516
00:26:44,086 --> 00:26:46,246
>> Kate: For 15 minutes once a
day or whatever, I don't know.

517
00:26:46,246 --> 00:26:47,176
I can't even remember now.

518
00:26:47,976 --> 00:26:50,346
But I didn't think
about building it

519
00:26:50,346 --> 00:26:53,416
into their programming and
into their environment.

520
00:26:53,526 --> 00:26:57,226
And I think for a lot of the
teachers I've worked with,

521
00:26:57,226 --> 00:27:00,366
the thing that they have felt
most responsible for related

522
00:27:00,366 --> 00:27:02,636
to mouthing is to
stop it, you know.

523
00:27:03,306 --> 00:27:07,106
And so finding that, you
know, really thinking about,

524
00:27:07,206 --> 00:27:12,176
you know -- and Lilli says
the way to stop mouthing is

525
00:27:12,176 --> 00:27:13,916
to give them more
things to mouth

526
00:27:13,916 --> 00:27:15,726
so that they learn
what they need to learn

527
00:27:15,726 --> 00:27:18,176
and they don't have
to continue to mouth.

528
00:27:18,926 --> 00:27:19,296
>> Ann: Right.

529
00:27:20,516 --> 00:27:23,056
>> Kate: So here are some of
the things that she talked about

530
00:27:23,056 --> 00:27:26,056
and Sara this very
first one made me think

531
00:27:26,056 --> 00:27:31,606
of your wonderful glove that
you made that we used early

532
00:27:31,606 --> 00:27:36,506
where she took a -- the
punch ball and filled it

533
00:27:36,506 --> 00:27:40,496
up with corn starch, but she
talks about a cloth bag --

534
00:27:40,496 --> 00:27:46,596
a cloth bag with potato flour
in it, which you can get it.

535
00:27:46,596 --> 00:27:47,576
It's sort of flakes.

536
00:27:47,796 --> 00:27:53,026
Actually, I think you can use
actually the potato flakes,

537
00:27:53,246 --> 00:27:55,036
the dehydrated potato flakes,

538
00:27:55,146 --> 00:27:56,816
that you make instant
mashed potatoes

539
00:27:56,816 --> 00:27:58,996
out of will do a similar thing.

540
00:27:59,486 --> 00:28:01,916
But you can get the potato
flour, and what she talked

541
00:28:01,916 --> 00:28:04,886
about is the neat
sound it makes.

542
00:28:05,256 --> 00:28:07,036
You make it up by their ear,

543
00:28:07,036 --> 00:28:11,086
just gradually moving
it down to their mouth.

544
00:28:11,086 --> 00:28:14,026
>> Sara: Yeah, seeing
if they'll explore it...

545
00:28:14,026 --> 00:28:15,656
>> Kate: And I will tell you

546
00:28:15,656 --> 00:28:18,676
that the one kiddo
that I brought the...

547
00:28:18,676 --> 00:28:22,636
corn starch with the punching
ball, in the punching ball,

548
00:28:22,926 --> 00:28:26,376
he was absolutely
obsessed with the sound

549
00:28:26,426 --> 00:28:29,336
and the feel of that...

550
00:28:29,336 --> 00:28:31,476
toy. And he did just that.

551
00:28:31,476 --> 00:28:33,846
He would put it up to
his ear, squeeze it.

552
00:28:33,846 --> 00:28:38,966
He would bite on it, you
know, gives such a neat sound.

553
00:28:38,966 --> 00:28:39,351
>> Sara:

554
00:28:39,351 --> 00:28:39,736
[ Inaudible ]

555
00:28:39,736 --> 00:28:41,696
... really liked biting it, too.

556
00:28:41,986 --> 00:28:44,516
>> Kate: Yeah, so that's
one thing for you guys,

557
00:28:44,516 --> 00:28:49,306
if you've not tried that,
you can use a real --

558
00:28:49,616 --> 00:28:52,976
Sara used those punch balls
that's like a big balloon,

559
00:28:52,976 --> 00:28:54,856
but it's heavier, much heavier.

560
00:28:54,856 --> 00:29:00,566
>> Sara: You can also use these
yellow dish washing gloves.

561
00:29:00,566 --> 00:29:01,716
>> Kate: That are not latex.

562
00:29:02,056 --> 00:29:04,176
>> Sara: Yeah, that
are real thick.

563
00:29:04,496 --> 00:29:06,056
>> Kate: Yeah, the
real thick ones.

564
00:29:06,056 --> 00:29:08,286
>> Sara: And you can pour
the corn starch into there,

565
00:29:08,286 --> 00:29:11,276
it's just such an
interesting feel and sound.

566
00:29:11,276 --> 00:29:12,396
>> Kate: It is great!

567
00:29:12,396 --> 00:29:13,716
>> Sara: Very messy and...

568
00:29:13,796 --> 00:29:17,876
>> Kate: We're working on some
techniques for how to fill them

569
00:29:17,876 --> 00:29:19,936
up better, where we are
not making such a mess.

570
00:29:19,936 --> 00:29:21,736
>> Sara: The icing thing
didn't work, though.

571
00:29:21,816 --> 00:29:22,506
>> Kate: Didn't work.

572
00:29:22,506 --> 00:29:24,136
Okay, we'll have to
keep working on it.

573
00:29:24,296 --> 00:29:25,786
We'll have to keep
working on it.

574
00:29:25,786 --> 00:29:27,346
>> Sara: It's a good
idea, though.

575
00:29:27,426 --> 00:29:29,166
>> Kate: But -- those are --
If you have not tried those,

576
00:29:29,166 --> 00:29:30,536
I can highly recommend them.

577
00:29:31,006 --> 00:29:33,056
Then she talked a lot
about a water pipe,

578
00:29:33,056 --> 00:29:36,996
but I'm thinking she's meaning
a plastic straw or I remember

579
00:29:36,996 --> 00:29:39,316
when I was much younger,
I'm very old,

580
00:29:39,316 --> 00:29:41,756
you used to could
buy glass straws.

581
00:29:43,016 --> 00:29:48,066
So put that food next to their
lips, do some play with that.

582
00:29:48,366 --> 00:29:51,046
Moving it along their
teeth to make sounds.

583
00:29:51,046 --> 00:29:54,166
What kid do you know who is
visually impaired or blind,

584
00:29:54,696 --> 00:29:58,086
I literally couldn't think
of a one that didn't get

585
00:29:58,176 --> 00:29:59,836
into rubbing things
on their teeth.

586
00:29:59,946 --> 00:30:04,146
Her whole thing was to get that
tongue to move left to right.

587
00:30:04,456 --> 00:30:05,666
What a great game.

588
00:30:05,666 --> 00:30:07,296
What a great game
to do with a kid.

589
00:30:07,296 --> 00:30:11,986
You can really have some
fun times working on that.

590
00:30:11,986 --> 00:30:14,826
She mentions putting
a plastic pipe

591
00:30:14,826 --> 00:30:16,996
or a chop stick between
their teeth.

592
00:30:17,246 --> 00:30:19,826
And then moving it
towards their left cheek

593
00:30:19,826 --> 00:30:20,886
and their right cheek.

594
00:30:21,436 --> 00:30:24,316
You know, just to kind of get
orientation, but also maybe

595
00:30:24,316 --> 00:30:26,886
to see if they would
move their lips more

596
00:30:26,886 --> 00:30:28,536
or maybe follow it
with the tongue.

597
00:30:29,376 --> 00:30:33,926
So I thought those
were pretty neat ideas.

598
00:30:34,066 --> 00:30:37,276
>> Sara: Probably they would
like the move the muscles

599
00:30:37,276 --> 00:30:39,076
in their mouth around that;

600
00:30:39,426 --> 00:30:41,436
so probably would activate
muscles to kind of squeeze

601
00:30:41,756 --> 00:30:42,436
>> Kate: Yeah, squeeze.

602
00:30:42,826 --> 00:30:44,496
>> Sara: Squeeze around
the straw on each side,

603
00:30:44,496 --> 00:30:47,626
cause I just kind of did
that to myself and kind

604
00:30:47,626 --> 00:30:48,366
of what I wanted to do.

605
00:30:48,396 --> 00:30:48,656
>> Kate: Yeah.

606
00:30:48,896 --> 00:30:51,326
So, and actually that's
kind of a good thing to do.

607
00:30:51,326 --> 00:30:52,826
Do some of the things
with yourself

608
00:30:52,826 --> 00:30:55,276
and see what feels
interesting or neat to you,

609
00:30:55,276 --> 00:30:57,676
and then try it with
your kiddos.

610
00:30:57,676 --> 00:31:00,456
This one made me
a little nervous

611
00:31:00,456 --> 00:31:03,116
about putting small
objects like buttons,

612
00:31:03,116 --> 00:31:06,576
rings and beads inside their
mouths tied to a string.

613
00:31:06,576 --> 00:31:08,316
And I was just like, okay

614
00:31:08,316 --> 00:31:10,086
on one level I know
this would be great --

615
00:31:10,086 --> 00:31:13,846
I just see lawsuits
all over that one.

616
00:31:14,256 --> 00:31:17,016
Then I thought no, you
know, we do those strings

617
00:31:17,016 --> 00:31:18,816
of buttons in the little room.

618
00:31:19,176 --> 00:31:21,656
The biggest thing is
to make darned sure

619
00:31:21,656 --> 00:31:24,956
that that string is really
high test string that it's

620
00:31:25,326 --> 00:31:27,716
in perfect, mint
condition every time

621
00:31:28,236 --> 00:31:31,116
so that it doesn't
have any possibility

622
00:31:31,116 --> 00:31:33,346
of breaking while
that child is there.

623
00:31:33,346 --> 00:31:34,596
>> Sara: Fishing wire
is pretty strong.

624
00:31:34,596 --> 00:31:36,666
>> Kate: Yeah, fishing
line, I've used that a lot.

625
00:31:36,906 --> 00:31:40,116
Yeah, but just to --
it's one of those things

626
00:31:40,116 --> 00:31:42,616
at that point where, you
know, be sure to check

627
00:31:42,616 --> 00:31:46,056
out equipment every time
before a child gets ahold of it

628
00:31:46,056 --> 00:31:49,106
because once they
start learning to chew

629
00:31:49,106 --> 00:31:51,526
and bite, it's a game changer.

630
00:31:51,526 --> 00:31:54,756
You can't use those kind of
things very easily anymore.

631
00:31:54,756 --> 00:31:56,486
You have to be a
lot more careful.

632
00:31:56,536 --> 00:31:58,056
>> Sara: You change
what you use.

633
00:31:58,056 --> 00:31:58,886
>> Kate: Absolutely!

634
00:31:58,886 --> 00:32:01,656
>> Sara: For sure, you
don't use the fishing line

635
00:32:01,656 --> 00:32:04,126
and buttons anymore if they're
biting; anything like that.

636
00:32:04,126 --> 00:32:07,446
>> Kate: No, no, but that's
the point that I'm saying is

637
00:32:07,486 --> 00:32:10,556
that just because they've
always liked that buttony thing

638
00:32:10,556 --> 00:32:13,626
and it's always been around,
when they start chewing

639
00:32:13,626 --> 00:32:16,916
and biting, you need to
rethink those objects

640
00:32:17,006 --> 00:32:20,636
that they are having access to,
because it is a game changer.

641
00:32:20,716 --> 00:32:21,026
You know...

642
00:32:21,026 --> 00:32:22,026
>> Sara: Well, they're
going to bite them in half.

643
00:32:22,136 --> 00:32:24,706
>> Kate: They're going to
bite them in half, yeah.

644
00:32:25,066 --> 00:32:29,826
She talks about using harmonicas
and flutes to learn to blow.

645
00:32:30,276 --> 00:32:35,556
And I think that -- that also,
you know, just that whole thing

646
00:32:35,556 --> 00:32:38,516
with the harmonica, you
get -- those especially,

647
00:32:38,516 --> 00:32:43,986
you get so much rich feedback in
terms of sound, the feel of that

648
00:32:43,986 --> 00:32:45,526
as you can move it across.

649
00:32:45,676 --> 00:32:49,006
The ones that are
metal, you know,

650
00:32:49,106 --> 00:32:52,216
versus some that are plastic,
have some neat differences

651
00:32:52,216 --> 00:32:54,216
in them, that was pretty neat.

652
00:32:54,636 --> 00:32:59,276
Using straws in liquid or
soapy liquid to blow bubbles.

653
00:32:59,636 --> 00:33:02,966
I was thinking about this
commercial that drives me crazy,

654
00:33:02,966 --> 00:33:04,216
cause it's got two little --

655
00:33:04,216 --> 00:33:07,506
it's an ad for Bounty where one
little kid is plowing bubbles

656
00:33:07,506 --> 00:33:09,696
and the younger kid is
giggling and the mom --

657
00:33:09,696 --> 00:33:11,576
and they're blowing
it in chocolate milk.

658
00:33:11,576 --> 00:33:12,896
And the mom's letting it happen.

659
00:33:12,896 --> 00:33:14,586
And I'm kind of,
'Uhhhh,' You know,

660
00:33:14,586 --> 00:33:16,696
but then I think this is a
good learning experience,

661
00:33:16,696 --> 00:33:18,976
our kids should get to do that.

662
00:33:19,046 --> 00:33:20,296
And then of course
the glass marbles

663
00:33:20,296 --> 00:33:22,326
in the mouth moving
from side to side.

664
00:33:22,356 --> 00:33:25,076
I had to put in here
probably not a good idea

665
00:33:25,566 --> 00:33:27,416
at schools in the United States.

666
00:33:27,506 --> 00:33:31,586
I think we would all be
fired if we were to try that.

667
00:33:32,126 --> 00:33:35,106
But I have wondered
with some older kids

668
00:33:35,176 --> 00:33:37,636
if there were some
things that were more

669
00:33:37,636 --> 00:33:42,056
like maybe a ping pong
ball or a golf ball

670
00:33:42,056 --> 00:33:45,116
that would be less likely
to sort of slide down;

671
00:33:45,276 --> 00:33:46,796
that you might be
able to do with.

672
00:33:46,796 --> 00:33:48,696
But I have to say, I'd
be a little nervous.

673
00:33:49,086 --> 00:33:51,246
I'd be a little nervous.

674
00:33:52,186 --> 00:33:56,176
Okay. So -- so before we go
on to the next little chunk

675
00:33:56,236 --> 00:33:59,396
of talking about next year,
Ann, do you have any comments

676
00:33:59,396 --> 00:34:03,776
about any of these ideas or
have you got other ideas and any

677
00:34:03,776 --> 00:34:08,646
of you guys, please, star 6
will unmute your mic if you want

678
00:34:08,686 --> 00:34:10,926
to just talk and not
have to type things.

679
00:34:11,776 --> 00:34:17,536
>> Ann: Well, I think, too, the
-- the important thing is for us

680
00:34:17,536 --> 00:34:19,536
to talk with parents about this.

681
00:34:20,366 --> 00:34:27,026
Because parents are also very
concerned about drooling,

682
00:34:27,236 --> 00:34:33,236
about sort of the -- their
social aspect of the child

683
00:34:33,236 --> 00:34:36,226
and how the child
may look different.

684
00:34:36,226 --> 00:34:40,316
And that that would
be a nice way to --

685
00:34:40,476 --> 00:34:44,656
to say let's work on some
of these things and see

686
00:34:44,656 --> 00:34:48,726
if it improves drooling
and -- because, of course,

687
00:34:48,776 --> 00:34:53,386
we know that you have to have
the muscles of the mouth working

688
00:34:53,386 --> 00:34:57,106
and all of those kind of
things in order to do that,

689
00:34:57,166 --> 00:35:00,986
in order to swallow
your own drool.

690
00:35:01,376 --> 00:35:05,896
And even typical --
parents of typical kids,

691
00:35:05,896 --> 00:35:09,886
when their child is
drooling, it drives them nuts.

692
00:35:09,946 --> 00:35:15,836
So you can imagine that --
that talking about this,

693
00:35:15,836 --> 00:35:18,376
even if you don't talk
about it in feeding,

694
00:35:19,736 --> 00:35:24,486
because those premies and
medically fragile kids

695
00:35:24,626 --> 00:35:30,756
that we've talked about before,
they may have them finally

696
00:35:30,756 --> 00:35:32,476
at a nutritional level...

697
00:35:32,476 --> 00:35:33,306
>> Kate: Absolutely.

698
00:35:33,626 --> 00:35:36,136
>> Ann: That is sustaining them

699
00:35:36,136 --> 00:35:38,426
and they're starting
to gain weight.

700
00:35:39,116 --> 00:35:41,596
And so they don't want
to mess with that.

701
00:35:41,596 --> 00:35:42,326
>> Kate: Absolutely.

702
00:35:42,686 --> 00:35:50,136
>> Ann: So I think -- you know,
each individual case but to talk

703
00:35:50,136 --> 00:35:53,366
with the parents about
let's try some of this

704
00:35:53,366 --> 00:35:55,836
and we won't do it
during feeding time.

705
00:35:56,436 --> 00:35:59,536
But let's see if it
improves feeding time

706
00:35:59,536 --> 00:36:05,626
or improves drooling or --
to approach it in that way.

707
00:36:05,626 --> 00:36:07,336
>> Kate: And the
other thing, too,

708
00:36:07,336 --> 00:36:10,126
if their child is being
tube fed, you know,

709
00:36:10,126 --> 00:36:11,596
I've never known a child

710
00:36:11,596 --> 00:36:14,756
who is being tube fed whose
parent wasn't hopefully

711
00:36:14,756 --> 00:36:18,086
that at some point they
wouldn't have to be tube fed.

712
00:36:18,086 --> 00:36:23,776
So helping them to think
about how to play games

713
00:36:23,776 --> 00:36:27,066
with their child or set up
learning environments at home,

714
00:36:27,526 --> 00:36:30,276
where the child has
opportunities to mouth things.

715
00:36:30,276 --> 00:36:31,846
You know, it doesn't
have to be food.

716
00:36:32,226 --> 00:36:33,946
It's objects, you know.

717
00:36:33,946 --> 00:36:39,416
And helping them understand the
importance of not only letting,

718
00:36:39,416 --> 00:36:41,446
but encouraging mouthing

719
00:36:41,476 --> 00:36:44,116
with their child,
offering them things.

720
00:36:44,116 --> 00:36:46,146
Especially if they don't
have good hand use,

721
00:36:47,276 --> 00:36:49,836
to have the opportunity
to mouth.

722
00:36:50,436 --> 00:36:50,836
>> Ann: Right.

723
00:36:50,996 --> 00:36:53,136
>> Kate: And, you
know, one of the things

724
00:36:53,296 --> 00:36:56,546
that I remember Lilli
talking about for kids

725
00:36:56,646 --> 00:36:58,946
that were tube fed,
that they wanted

726
00:36:58,946 --> 00:37:02,556
to encourage their pleasure
with the taste is, you know,

727
00:37:02,556 --> 00:37:07,676
she would do the -- like
rock Candy on a string;

728
00:37:07,786 --> 00:37:09,336
and you can make that.

729
00:37:09,336 --> 00:37:10,716
It's not hard to make that.

730
00:37:10,716 --> 00:37:14,906
And it's kind of a fun thing,
actually, to make with kids.

731
00:37:14,996 --> 00:37:21,306
Where they can play with
their kid, having things

732
00:37:21,456 --> 00:37:25,096
that they can hold, that
the child can just smell

733
00:37:25,226 --> 00:37:26,666
or touch their lips to.

734
00:37:26,666 --> 00:37:27,936
They don't have to eat them.

735
00:37:28,256 --> 00:37:33,626
And, also, helping
parents really understand

736
00:37:34,126 --> 00:37:38,346
that connection between moving
your mouth, moving your tongue,

737
00:37:38,346 --> 00:37:42,696
moving your lips,
eating and also speech.

738
00:37:42,956 --> 00:37:43,246
>>> Ann: Speech.

739
00:37:43,246 --> 00:37:43,626
And sound.

740
00:37:44,026 --> 00:37:45,606
>> Kate: And sounds, you know.

741
00:37:45,646 --> 00:37:47,786
And getting encouraging...

742
00:37:48,836 --> 00:37:51,486
play with their lips
and their tongues.

743
00:37:51,516 --> 00:37:54,526
Again, this doesn't have
to be about feeding.

744
00:37:54,856 --> 00:38:01,246
It can be blowing raspberries on
them and letting them feel that.

745
00:38:01,246 --> 00:38:04,416
And getting the child,
encouraging the child to try to,

746
00:38:04,926 --> 00:38:07,536
you know, blow raspberries
on their face

747
00:38:07,536 --> 00:38:09,916
or kiss their face, or whatever.

748
00:38:09,976 --> 00:38:16,076
It's just an area that I
think for me as a teacher,

749
00:38:16,076 --> 00:38:19,736
when I was in a classroom,
even when I was working

750
00:38:19,736 --> 00:38:23,046
with my very youngest
kids, they just --

751
00:38:23,226 --> 00:38:24,716
it just happened, you know.

752
00:38:24,716 --> 00:38:27,566
I never thought about teaching
it for most of my kids,

753
00:38:28,026 --> 00:38:31,416
and the one or two kids that
I had that didn't do that,

754
00:38:31,626 --> 00:38:36,856
I didn't think about what I
could do to help teach them that

755
00:38:36,856 --> 00:38:38,406
or how important that was.

756
00:38:38,406 --> 00:38:38,536
>> Ann: Right.

757
00:38:39,036 --> 00:38:44,696
>> Kate: And I sort of prided
myself about being knowledgeable

758
00:38:45,146 --> 00:38:47,626
about developing mouth...

759
00:38:47,626 --> 00:38:51,366
motor skills because of my deaf
ed background and the importance

760
00:38:51,366 --> 00:38:54,096
of speech and things like
that but, you know, it just --

761
00:38:54,586 --> 00:38:56,976
it didn't -- register...

762
00:38:57,106 --> 00:39:03,186
>> Ann: Well, I know during my
time as an educator, we have --

763
00:39:03,186 --> 00:39:06,996
at one point it was, 'We have
to go back to the very beginning

764
00:39:06,996 --> 00:39:09,776
and start over,' or 'Well,
we just don't go back,

765
00:39:09,776 --> 00:39:11,416
we're just going to
start from here.'

766
00:39:11,416 --> 00:39:11,636
>> Kate: Yeah.

767
00:39:11,956 --> 00:39:14,676
>> Ann: And I feel
like there are areas --

768
00:39:14,676 --> 00:39:18,296
and I think, you know, Lilli
definitely feels that way,

769
00:39:18,696 --> 00:39:22,376
that we do have to look,
'Where does it start?'

770
00:39:22,576 --> 00:39:24,536
You know, because
of course she was a

771
00:39:24,536 --> 00:39:26,736
developmental psychologist.

772
00:39:26,856 --> 00:39:29,286
So, I think we have
to look at that.

773
00:39:29,286 --> 00:39:30,266
>> Kate: Absolutely.

774
00:39:30,266 --> 00:39:34,176
>> Ann: If we're trying to work
on the child to make sounds

775
00:39:34,176 --> 00:39:38,426
or to do something, we
have to go back to that,

776
00:39:38,426 --> 00:39:41,206
and let's give them
an environment

777
00:39:41,206 --> 00:39:42,846
where they can do
it independently.

778
00:39:43,146 --> 00:39:43,776
And practice.

779
00:39:43,776 --> 00:39:46,976
>> Kate: Right, right, right.

780
00:39:47,046 --> 00:39:49,796
Any comments, thoughts,
ideas from you guys?

781
00:39:49,796 --> 00:39:51,976
You want to share?

782
00:39:52,656 --> 00:39:53,216
>> Renee: Kate?

783
00:39:53,216 --> 00:39:53,416
>> Kate: Yes.

784
00:39:53,416 --> 00:39:54,396
>> Renee: This is Renee.

785
00:39:54,396 --> 00:39:54,976
>> Kate: Hi Renee.

786
00:39:55,256 --> 00:39:57,836
>> Renee: One of things I've
done; I had a little boy

787
00:39:57,836 --> 00:40:02,026
who is DeafBlind, and he
was not wanting anything

788
00:40:02,026 --> 00:40:04,206
in his mouth at all last year.

789
00:40:04,206 --> 00:40:05,946
And so this year he is --

790
00:40:06,356 --> 00:40:10,136
he is actually trying to
mouth different things and one

791
00:40:10,136 --> 00:40:13,426
of the things that he
really likes is those little

792
00:40:13,426 --> 00:40:15,436
metal chimes.

793
00:40:15,526 --> 00:40:19,316
You know, I have -- I've had
a little chime thing that --

794
00:40:19,316 --> 00:40:23,856
that the strings have broken
and so I have restrung them,

795
00:40:23,996 --> 00:40:26,236
you know, on some elastic
and stuff and hung them

796
00:40:26,236 --> 00:40:30,816
from a little mobile and from
the -- and in the noisy box.

797
00:40:30,816 --> 00:40:34,176
And for whatever reason, he
likes those cold, hard chimes

798
00:40:34,176 --> 00:40:37,186
and he's actually taken
his hand and pushed them

799
00:40:37,186 --> 00:40:39,186
to his mouth before,
which was just amazing,

800
00:40:39,496 --> 00:40:42,506
because last year he didn't
even want us to touch his mouth;

801
00:40:42,506 --> 00:40:44,326
or anything to touch his mouth.

802
00:40:44,436 --> 00:40:48,086
So I don't know, I don't know
why the cold hard cylinders,

803
00:40:48,086 --> 00:40:49,016
but he likes it.

804
00:40:49,166 --> 00:40:50,946
>> Kate: It's a preference,
you know.

805
00:40:51,266 --> 00:40:52,986
That's a very cool thing.

806
00:40:52,986 --> 00:40:55,356
And what's so neat about
that, Renee, you know,

807
00:40:55,446 --> 00:40:58,026
liking the chimes, how
many different kinds

808
00:40:58,026 --> 00:41:03,656
of materials are very similar
to that, that you could include

809
00:41:03,656 --> 00:41:06,986
with that for, you
know, comparison;

810
00:41:07,346 --> 00:41:10,636
hanging in the little room
to have the cold metal ones

811
00:41:10,636 --> 00:41:13,256
on one side and then to
have maybe like a ceramic

812
00:41:13,256 --> 00:41:17,896
or a wooden one on
the other side.

813
00:41:17,896 --> 00:41:18,836
And see...

814
00:41:18,926 --> 00:41:23,396
seeing if the interest that he
finds in mouthing that shape

815
00:41:23,426 --> 00:41:28,046
and that temperature might
translate to a similar shape

816
00:41:28,046 --> 00:41:30,476
with a different
kind of material;

817
00:41:30,476 --> 00:41:31,586
that would have a
different texture,

818
00:41:31,586 --> 00:41:33,406
a different temperature,
a different taste.

819
00:41:33,406 --> 00:41:34,936
Cause that's the
other thing, I think.

820
00:41:34,936 --> 00:41:37,686
We oftentimes think of
taste as being food.

821
00:41:38,196 --> 00:41:41,786
But metal has a distinct taste,
wood has a distinct taste,

822
00:41:41,786 --> 00:41:44,356
different types of wood
have different tastes.

823
00:41:44,356 --> 00:41:47,336
So, that's very cool.

824
00:41:47,336 --> 00:41:48,646
That's very cool.

825
00:41:49,056 --> 00:41:55,656
I know that I have done
things like put coffee beans

826
00:41:55,656 --> 00:41:57,546
in a little burlap sack in --

827
00:41:57,546 --> 00:42:02,826
in a little room and a lot of
the kids didn't like it at all.

828
00:42:02,826 --> 00:42:04,606
But a couple of kids
actually liked --

829
00:42:05,556 --> 00:42:07,906
I think they were drawn
by the scent of it

830
00:42:07,906 --> 00:42:10,476
and would actually
mouth on it some

831
00:42:10,476 --> 00:42:11,956
and on the burlap, you know.

832
00:42:11,956 --> 00:42:15,506
So you just -- again,
going through that process,

833
00:42:15,586 --> 00:42:18,276
that Lilli talks about, that
Millie Smith talks about,

834
00:42:18,686 --> 00:42:22,436
in <i>Sensory Learning Kit</i>, of
looking at their preferences

835
00:42:22,866 --> 00:42:26,406
and trying to figure out, 'Okay,
if I'm working on mouthing,

836
00:42:26,476 --> 00:42:29,056
what do I know about
their preferences?'

837
00:42:29,146 --> 00:42:32,706
You know, 'How can
I pick up on that?'

838
00:42:32,706 --> 00:42:34,956
Other comments.

839
00:42:35,096 --> 00:42:36,006
>> Hillary: Hi, Kate,
this is Hillary.

840
00:42:36,006 --> 00:42:36,516
>> Kate: Hey, Hillary.

841
00:42:37,226 --> 00:42:37,526
>> Hillary: Hey.

842
00:42:37,886 --> 00:42:41,346
Well, I have thought about
with the chimes, and you talked

843
00:42:41,346 --> 00:42:44,296
about glass straws, I
remember paper straws.

844
00:42:44,376 --> 00:42:46,206
You can find those again, now.

845
00:42:46,786 --> 00:42:49,496
So that might be just
a whole another texture

846
00:42:49,496 --> 00:42:51,066
and just chunk them
when you're done.

847
00:42:51,066 --> 00:42:51,946
>> Kate: Absolutely.

848
00:42:51,946 --> 00:42:54,146
That's a great idea.

849
00:42:54,736 --> 00:42:55,986
And you know...

850
00:42:56,736 --> 00:42:59,456
if... if a child is ready
-- doing one pretty well,

851
00:42:59,456 --> 00:43:01,756
you can bundle things
like that, you know,

852
00:43:01,916 --> 00:43:05,116
put three of them together
so that they can experience,

853
00:43:05,236 --> 00:43:07,936
you know, finding those
little holes with their mouth

854
00:43:08,496 --> 00:43:11,956
and using their tongue to
separate them apart, you know.

855
00:43:12,356 --> 00:43:13,826
That's -- that's true.

856
00:43:13,826 --> 00:43:15,656
And paper would work
really well for that.

857
00:43:15,656 --> 00:43:16,946
Also plastic would, too,

858
00:43:16,946 --> 00:43:22,186
but I think the paper would
be really easy to move around.

859
00:43:22,186 --> 00:43:23,956
Good idea.

860
00:43:24,046 --> 00:43:27,006
Allison says, 'I am a
new student and wondered

861
00:43:27,006 --> 00:43:30,256
where to get this kit or learn
how to put one together.'

862
00:43:30,556 --> 00:43:34,756
Well, the <i>Sensory Learning Kit</i>
is actually a product from APH

863
00:43:34,756 --> 00:43:38,296
and there's a whole
process for using it.

864
00:43:38,676 --> 00:43:43,056
Scott Baltisberger is
actually doing a study group

865
00:43:43,056 --> 00:43:44,666
on <i>Sensory Learning Kit</i>.

866
00:43:44,666 --> 00:43:49,546
And I believe we have a
number of those archived

867
00:43:49,546 --> 00:43:52,776
on our On-the-Go Learning site.

868
00:43:52,776 --> 00:43:57,836
And for those of you -- Allison,
I don't know where you live,

869
00:43:57,976 --> 00:44:02,886
but June 29th and
30th, Millie Smith,

870
00:44:02,996 --> 00:44:05,776
who created <i>Sensory
Learning Kit</i>,

871
00:44:05,776 --> 00:44:09,046
is going to be doing
a free workshop in --

872
00:44:09,046 --> 00:44:12,156
at Region 8 in Pittsburgh,
Texas.

873
00:44:12,636 --> 00:44:16,046
Which is up in northeastern
Texas.

874
00:44:16,606 --> 00:44:19,166
So if you are in that area,

875
00:44:19,166 --> 00:44:20,986
you might actually
want to go to that.

876
00:44:20,986 --> 00:44:24,516
And I think she's going to -- I
know she's going to be doing one

877
00:44:25,036 --> 00:44:30,496
down in Region 1 in the
Valley, I believe in April.

878
00:44:31,086 --> 00:44:34,946
So that's another thing
to -- to check out.

879
00:44:35,316 --> 00:44:37,476
>> Ann: She might check with
her Education Service Center.

880
00:44:37,476 --> 00:44:37,616
>> Kate: Yeah.

881
00:44:37,656 --> 00:44:40,176
I would check on your -- if
there's an Education Service --

882
00:44:40,176 --> 00:44:41,856
well there is an
Education Service Center

883
00:44:41,856 --> 00:44:44,016
in your region if
you're in Texas.

884
00:44:44,386 --> 00:44:48,996
You can find out more about the
<i>Sensory Learning Kit</i> there.

885
00:44:49,186 --> 00:44:51,206
And then as far as creating some

886
00:44:51,206 --> 00:44:54,256
of the Active Learning
environments, you know, again,

887
00:44:54,736 --> 00:44:59,666
you know, you may -- if you
don't have a lot of experience

888
00:44:59,706 --> 00:45:03,876
with it yourself, at your
Education Service Center,

889
00:45:03,906 --> 00:45:08,026
there are Low-Incidence
Disability Specialists,

890
00:45:08,646 --> 00:45:12,676
and most of them, or many,
many of them have been

891
00:45:12,676 --> 00:45:14,516
through training
with Lilli Neilsen

892
00:45:14,966 --> 00:45:18,146
and not only have equipment,
but have a lot of good ideas

893
00:45:18,146 --> 00:45:22,516
about how to build out toys and
environments, and can help you.

894
00:45:22,516 --> 00:45:24,836
And then if you can't
get anybody else,

895
00:45:24,836 --> 00:45:26,806
you can always make a
request from Outreach,

896
00:45:26,806 --> 00:45:30,116
and we come out -- and be happy
to come out and kind of work

897
00:45:30,116 --> 00:45:32,556
with you around, you
know, creating some

898
00:45:32,556 --> 00:45:33,566
of those environments.

899
00:45:35,076 --> 00:45:37,306
Speaking of which, that
makes a nice transition

900
00:45:37,306 --> 00:45:39,966
to something I really
want to talk about.

901
00:45:39,966 --> 00:45:43,726
And we may not come up with all
of the answers today, but again,

902
00:45:43,726 --> 00:45:49,166
like I say, we start planning
for next year now in outreach.

903
00:45:49,216 --> 00:45:52,826
So a couple of things that I
wanted to look at and I'm going

904
00:45:52,876 --> 00:45:56,716
to pull up some polls, and
ask you to, first of all,

905
00:45:57,176 --> 00:46:01,996
let me know, 'Do you think we
should have an Active Learning

906
00:46:01,996 --> 00:46:03,906
Study Group next year?'

907
00:46:03,906 --> 00:46:06,566
This is the second
year we've done it.

908
00:46:06,566 --> 00:46:09,246
Our group is small, we
don't mind that it's small,

909
00:46:09,666 --> 00:46:13,446
but I would like to know if
you would like to see us do it,

910
00:46:13,446 --> 00:46:15,366
and if you think
we should go ahead

911
00:46:15,436 --> 00:46:17,946
and try to do that next year.

912
00:46:18,056 --> 00:46:19,806
Okay, looks like
everybody -- great.

913
00:46:20,076 --> 00:46:22,626
You all want to do one, we'll
put it on the dance card.

914
00:46:23,186 --> 00:46:23,726
All right.

915
00:46:23,836 --> 00:46:31,346
Here is my second poll and that
is the 64,000 dollar question:

916
00:46:31,556 --> 00:46:33,356
'What materials should
we focus on?'

917
00:46:33,916 --> 00:46:40,636
And by that I mean do you have
a particular Lilli Neilsen book

918
00:46:40,636 --> 00:46:44,226
or material that you think
we ought to use as our focus

919
00:46:44,436 --> 00:46:48,886
or do you have something that
isn't necessarily a Lilli book

920
00:46:48,886 --> 00:46:51,756
or whatever that you
just want to have us try

921
00:46:51,756 --> 00:46:53,836
to build some study groups on?

922
00:46:53,836 --> 00:46:56,836
I'm very, very open.

923
00:46:56,976 --> 00:46:58,746
You can type in a
short answer here.

924
00:46:58,746 --> 00:47:02,786
If you can think of something
you would like us to focus on.

925
00:47:03,026 --> 00:47:07,986
If you don't know what Active
Learning books are out there,

926
00:47:07,986 --> 00:47:12,006
we studied, last year,

927
00:47:12,006 --> 00:47:13,536
I'm trying to think what
we studied last year,

928
00:47:13,536 --> 00:47:16,796
I'm spacing all of a sudden.

929
00:47:17,046 --> 00:47:17,426
>> Ann: <i>Are You Blind?</i>

930
00:47:17,426 --> 00:47:18,976
>> Kate: <i>Are You Blind?</i> We
did <i>Are You Blind?</i> last year.

931
00:47:18,976 --> 00:47:21,016
We're doing <i>Early
Learning Step by Step.</i>

932
00:47:21,016 --> 00:47:24,316
The <i>Comprehending Hand</i>
is one that's very good,

933
00:47:24,316 --> 00:47:25,696
if you all haven't looked at.

934
00:47:25,696 --> 00:47:29,526
<i>Space and Self</i> is
one, I think a lot

935
00:47:30,156 --> 00:47:31,936
of people have <i>Space and Self</i>.

936
00:47:32,106 --> 00:47:36,456
Then there are things like
looking at the FIELA curriculum

937
00:47:36,456 --> 00:47:38,736
or the Functional
Scheme Assessment.

938
00:47:39,396 --> 00:47:43,426
There's any number of
materials that she's developed

939
00:47:43,426 --> 00:47:47,076
that we could go through
and do and focus on;

940
00:47:47,446 --> 00:47:50,956
or we could pick some
other topic around --

941
00:47:51,536 --> 00:47:56,446
associated with Active Learning,
like, I don't know, what are,

942
00:47:56,566 --> 00:48:00,066
you know -- how do
you tie it to --

943
00:48:00,066 --> 00:48:03,056
how does it relate to the
Expanded Core Curriculum?

944
00:48:03,056 --> 00:48:09,426
I know that Lotti Tomco and
Liz Adam and myself are going

945
00:48:09,426 --> 00:48:12,886
to be developing
a TETN for the --

946
00:48:12,886 --> 00:48:15,876
for April that focuses
on how do you think

947
00:48:15,876 --> 00:48:20,186
about using Active Learning
approach in instruction

948
00:48:20,366 --> 00:48:22,966
in the Expanded Core
Curriculum areas.

949
00:48:22,966 --> 00:48:25,806
And then also, in
core curriculum areas.

950
00:48:26,306 --> 00:48:30,376
So it just kind of depends
on what we want to do.

951
00:48:30,486 --> 00:48:36,716
So if you don't have ideas right
now, you can always send them

952
00:48:36,716 --> 00:48:39,506
to me, by email, or call me.

953
00:48:40,066 --> 00:48:42,676
Because truly I would like --

954
00:48:42,676 --> 00:48:45,086
if I'm going to spend the
time doing this every month

955
00:48:45,576 --> 00:48:47,656
or whoever, it may not be me.

956
00:48:48,046 --> 00:48:50,916
I really would like it to be
as meaningful as possible.

957
00:48:52,086 --> 00:48:52,466
Let's see.

958
00:48:52,466 --> 00:48:56,386
'I like that ECC, especially
for older kids, maybe setting

959
00:48:56,386 --> 00:48:58,856
up rec/leisure environments
for the older students.'

960
00:49:00,116 --> 00:49:01,606
That sounds possible.

961
00:49:01,966 --> 00:49:03,806
'Completing functional
schemes or how

962
00:49:03,846 --> 00:49:06,516
to implement the
FIELA curriculum.'

963
00:49:07,816 --> 00:49:07,976
Okay.

964
00:49:08,046 --> 00:49:09,826
I'm going to leave
that one up for a while

965
00:49:09,826 --> 00:49:11,606
and pull up the next one.

966
00:49:11,946 --> 00:49:18,296
And again, you know, you can...

967
00:49:18,476 --> 00:49:18,976
you can...

968
00:49:19,086 --> 00:49:23,896
call me or give me
ideas by email.

969
00:49:24,426 --> 00:49:28,346
So this one is: 'How can we
make these active learning study

970
00:49:28,346 --> 00:49:30,206
groups more interactive?'

971
00:49:30,766 --> 00:49:34,266
You know, I am very
new to doing webinars.

972
00:49:34,766 --> 00:49:41,486
And as is almost everybody
else in Outreach and, you know,

973
00:49:41,606 --> 00:49:47,056
I don't want this to -- I would
like to make this something

974
00:49:47,056 --> 00:49:50,866
where you guys can get, have
more opportunities to interact,

975
00:49:51,566 --> 00:49:52,556
if that's what you want to do.

976
00:49:52,556 --> 00:49:54,516
I don't know, maybe that's
not what you want to do.

977
00:49:54,826 --> 00:49:59,846
But I'd really be interested in
ways that, you know, we can --

978
00:50:00,696 --> 00:50:03,396
we can make this more
interactive, in part because,

979
00:50:03,396 --> 00:50:08,196
you know, you guys are out there
actually doing this every day.

980
00:50:08,196 --> 00:50:11,776
You know, we get to come
out occasionally and work

981
00:50:11,776 --> 00:50:13,926
with the team around
Active Learning.

982
00:50:13,926 --> 00:50:17,516
But we don't get to do this
every day like you guys do.

983
00:50:17,516 --> 00:50:21,506
And I would really like to take
advantage of your knowledge

984
00:50:21,506 --> 00:50:25,036
and expertise, and be able to
share that with other people

985
00:50:25,036 --> 00:50:27,856
who are just kind of
starting up with this.

986
00:50:28,196 --> 00:50:32,246
You know? So, give
it some thought.

987
00:50:32,246 --> 00:50:34,846
And we're going to
take a few more minutes

988
00:50:35,296 --> 00:50:38,346
and let you again maybe
put in some ideas,

989
00:50:38,346 --> 00:50:41,486
if you don't have any ideas
now you can always get hold

990
00:50:41,486 --> 00:50:42,646
of me and let me know.

991
00:50:43,696 --> 00:50:47,096
Then in terms of the more
interactive you know we always

992
00:50:47,096 --> 00:50:48,876
start out with a
fairly large group

993
00:50:48,876 --> 00:50:50,716
for the Active Learning
Study Groups

994
00:50:50,716 --> 00:50:53,356
and then they drop off
to a hard core group.

995
00:50:53,806 --> 00:50:56,146
I have no problem
with that at all.

996
00:50:56,146 --> 00:50:59,356
But I would personally
kind of be interested

997
00:50:59,356 --> 00:51:01,746
in what are the obstacles
for you guys,

998
00:51:01,746 --> 00:51:03,976
in terms of joining
a study group

999
00:51:03,976 --> 00:51:05,526
and sticking with it, you know.

1000
00:51:05,526 --> 00:51:08,546
If any of you could give
me any kind of feedback

1001
00:51:08,546 --> 00:51:12,566
that maybe would help us try
to find some solutions to that.

1002
00:51:12,896 --> 00:51:15,786
Okay. Well, I know that
these are questions

1003
00:51:15,786 --> 00:51:17,026
that you may have to ponder.

1004
00:51:17,426 --> 00:51:22,886
So -- so I'm going to leave
these polls up on the side.

1005
00:51:23,376 --> 00:51:27,616
You all can continue to put
some information in them.

1006
00:51:27,616 --> 00:51:29,446
Let's hide me a little
bit maybe,

1007
00:51:29,726 --> 00:51:31,836
push this over out of the way.

1008
00:51:31,836 --> 00:51:36,086
I'll go on because we're
getting close to the end time.

1009
00:51:36,366 --> 00:51:39,346
So we've hit 4:00.

1010
00:51:39,416 --> 00:51:41,356
We're going to let
our captioner go.

1011
00:51:41,356 --> 00:51:43,316
But I'll stick around
for a few minutes,

1012
00:51:43,316 --> 00:51:44,966
if you've got any
questions or comments.

1013
00:51:45,516 --> 00:51:50,180
[ Music ]